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Will farm junglers come back into the meta with the jg changes

d4rkshock··4 votes·792 views

So now riot has decided to punish jg mains for learning the role. No more smite buffs. It looks like assasins will have an even harder time clearing. Camps take longer to take except the buffs and wolves due to additional monsters. The raptors has 5 small raptors. The krugs work like golems from dota 2 but even more. Big keys splits into normals and the normals split into minis. This could mean that farm jg's will back with even more gold. Remember the dark days of udyr, yi, shyvana, etc from a few months ago. They can possibly come back they might not have the same kill power with sated devour but if they use rageblade, then yes. Not saying yi or shyvana will but udyr jax and Xin zhao will. This is still an indirect buff to all of them. Also remember when wraiths were introduced? It made farm junglers highly relevant which wasn't the intent. it was for single target clears. Now they want to make certain camps better for certain junglers. This never worked as explained. Luckily for me, I main Shyvana. Do you think farm junglers will be great again?

36 Comments

The Deckowner3 votes

Farm Junglers are ALREADY dominating the meta right now, rhe preseason change was meant to kill farm junglers by increasing clear difficulty and extending camp spawn time.

Basically they refuse to rework.nidalee so they are changing the jungle entirely so she can't dominate the meta.

but it won't work

edit: for clearity, by farm jungler im refering to champs like nidalee who can storm through the jungle and stay equal in gold with laners, not "farm til 6" junglers.

Mira Arya Enthe4 votes

Wat? The dominant junglers are people like Nid, Graves, Lee Sin, Hec.

Farm junglers are Udyr, Shyvana, Warwick, etc.

The Deckowner3 votes

except Nidalee Graves etc farms faster and better than any of these chamoions.

The problem with the jungle right now is these champions don't even need to gank, they just powerfarm the jungle and stay equal or even ahead in gold compare to laners due to the crazy clear speed and sustain provided from their kit.

I think we have a really different understanding of what farm junglers are, those ones you listed are more like passive farm to 6 junglers.

d4rkshock2 votes

That kills off shyvana. Her lvl 3 ganks are shit. She needs lvl 6. Now I need a new jg. Welp, she might just need a rework if it does kill her and make her a complete garbage champion. They are reworking ww. Same for nocturne. He can't gank pre 6. We won't be seeing yi as much in low elo. Not sure how it will effect rengar since his pre 6 ganks are bad unless he lands his empowered ebola. Now he needs to hunt the enemy jg. Then he has to kill the adc to get another stack and then the mid then rinse and repeat because I believe you can't just keep killing the same enemy over and over. Fiddlesticks may also have issues although his clears will allow him to just get red and blue nearly unscaved. Pretty any jg who relied on lvl 6 will be out of meta. There's a reason they power farm untill 6. Also shyvana has been a high variance feast or famine jg ever since bloodrazor who needs to farm to even be good.

d4rkshock2 votes

That kills off shyvana. Her lvl 3 ganks are shit. She needs lvl 6. Now I need a new jg. Welp, she might just need a rework if it does kill her and make her a complete garbage champion. They are reworking ww. Same for nocturne. He can't gank pre 6. We won't be seeing yi as much in low elo. Not sure how it will effect rengar since his pre 6 ganks are bad unless he lands his empowered ebola. Now he needs to hunt the enemy jg. Then he has to kill the adc to get another stack and then the mid then rinse and repeat because I believe you can't just keep killing the same enemy over and over. Fiddlesticks may also have issues although his clears will allow him to just get red and blue nearly unscaved. Pretty any jg who relied on lvl 6 will be out of meta. There's a reason they power farm untill 6. Also shyvana has been a high variance feast or famine jg ever since bloodrazor who needs to farm to even be good.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Riot will likely rework all their identities to be as toxic and impossible to balance as most designs made after 2014 :3

And destroy their identity, appearance and lore too.

Then gut their core design, and turn them into completely different classes.

Shyvana will become an ADC because Riot thinks it fits her better. Skarner will become an assassin. Warwick will become a burst control mage. Udyr will become a CC heavy AoE tank.

;P

d4rkshock3 votes

Seems about right because the rito balance department likes to make broken ass champions/useless champions. They are either broken or doa untill a few patches later.

WeedTits1 votes

{quoted}

That kills off shyvana. Her lvl 3 ganks are shit. She needs lvl 6. Now I need a new jg. Welp, she might just need a rework if it does kill her and make her a complete garbage champion. They are reworking ww. Same for nocturne. He can't gank pre 6. We won't be seeing yi as much in low elo. Not sure how it will effect rengar since his pre 6 ganks are bad unless he lands his empowered ebola. Now he needs to hunt the enemy jg. Then he has to kill the adc to get another stack and then the mid then rinse and repeat because I believe you can't just keep killing the same enemy over and over. Fiddlesticks may also have issues although his clears will allow him to just get red and blue nearly unscaved. Pretty any jg who relied on lvl 6 will be out of meta. There's a reason they power farm untill 6. Also shyvana has been a high variance feast or famine jg ever since bloodrazor who needs to farm to even be good.

Back to top lane you go.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Facepalm

Nidalee, Graves, Hec and so forth have amazing ganks... that is what is wrong with them. They have too much power in counter jungle and ganking. Have you even been watching LCS? Who the fuck picks a mobile, squishy, high powered assassin jungler to permafarm?

If permafarming was still a thing, Shyvana and Udyr would be meta like when Permafarming was a thing! XD

The Deckowner3 votes

IN FACT I javen been watching worlds.

Let me give you an example, SKT vs ROX game 1, why was Bengi's Nidalee a few hundred golds ahead the entire early game despite not participating in any kills? he just powerfarms his jungle and takes cross map farm of the enemy whenever the enemy jungler went for a gank! Clear speed is the main reason why Nidalee is so broken.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap2-5vA4Bs4 check out this video at 15:56, Imaqtpie and Scarra explains very well what the balancing problem of current meta jungler is. hint: it is farming.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Sounds like those junglers just need their clear power reduced then >.>

Riot, always drastic changes for simple problems.

"Clears jungle too fast? Rework the entire jungle system so we have to rebalance every single jungler, kill farm junglers(junglers who focus on farming) and add plants! That will totally fix the toxic power of Nidalee!"

"Uhm sir? Can't we just... nerf her clear speed?"

"SILENCE! What is this 'simplicity' you speak of?"

d4rkshock1 votes

Repeated nerfs take champions out of meta. It happened to Vlad and Viktor.

The Deckowner1 votes

more like these junglers just need another rework.

Nidalee has always been top tier jungler despite any meta change since her rework. Graves became a toxic monster after the rewoek. These are just failed reworks that does nothing other than create unhealthy gameplay, but rito refuses to revert reworks.

d4rkshock1 votes

Welp rito just threw everything out of whack. Now I need to relearn my role and figure shit out. I will be splitpushing top or killing my enemy owner if he falls below half hp. Tryndamere and Pantheon will be my new mains until I figure this bullshit change out. And of course a lvl 3 gank capable jg will do it. Eve, Lee, kha, etc do it if they see an overextended lane.

d4rkshock1 votes

I didn't say they were meta. I said they have the fastest clears. In fact, they were nerfed into the ground.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

No, Riot specifically said they are killing farm jungling entirely. They don't want it to be a thing. They want everyone to be gank heavy. They are increasing jungle respawn timers by 50s per camps among other changes. Pretty bullshit if you ask me.

Linna Excel4 votes

So what are junglers with crap ganks supposed to do?

Shyvana can't gank at all (good counter ganker though). A bunch of champs suck at ganking pre-6. If they slow down the respawn times, invaders and duelists will completely screw over the other guy.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Riot will likely rework all their identities to be as toxic and impossible to balance as most designs made after 2014 :3

d4rkshock1 votes

Yep, shyvana does both but this means she will have issues. Now we will see more invades now. I don't know what to expect. As far as I'm concerned, it's a threat to shyvana and udyr who are far from being on the meta.

Spice POWAH1 votes

It probably means that the meta junglers will become utility junglers that can bring more than damage to the table. I'm personally trying to remain hopeful that the changes will make it easier for tanks and mage junglers for the utility.

Jaygo411 votes

Shyvana was/is designed to be a top lane tanky carry... She probably needs a small scale rework to get her up to speed

I just hate farm junglers because they're honestly mindless and require no knowledge input to do what you do on them. I can get my team ahead and be 4-0 on vi but oh wait! time's up! shyvana got her 3 items and can now wreck my whole team. "Well you should have counterjungled!" And that's when you realize farm junglers are primarily fantastic duelists that primarily go red smite.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

THE ENTER KEY US IT

Talisid1 votes

Well they just changed Rengar's Q to be an AoE spell and Kha still has his W. I don't think assasin Junglers will have any problems with the new camps.

In fact Kha will be able to destroy the buff monsters even faster now with the isolated damage bonus.

d4rkshock1 votes

We won't see Eve at all anymore. Welp idf you're low elo and start frothing at the mouth when you se her, fear not. She can't clear that well anymore.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

no. beause bloodrazor is a junk item. it does no damage unless your facing a health stacking tank. u cant fight anyone for shit with it alone early game

d4rkshock1 votes

You skip until you get your first big item then it does damage and scales late and also this kills farm jg's as riot intended according to the comments.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

maybe if they add phantom hit to it. it has no syndergy with anything besides phantom hit and rageblade sucks

d4rkshock1 votes

It's good on jax and Xin. Also anyone with effects that proc it like ww yi and shyvana like bloodrazor. Ww deals 20 % max hp from 1 ult plus the base damage so that's 1/4 hp. Shyvana's double procs and has % on hit from her e so that's about 13% max hp from the q+e mark. Yi's double strike double procs it.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

yeah but u know u can get an ad item and proc it on autos. lol and have abilitie sscale with it

d4rkshock1 votes

That's not what proc means. It refers to proclaimed random event like an anime stun, a love tap, or an on hit effect, etc. Also these jg's need the as vs ad. Everyone except Xin, yi, Jax are tanks and also have mixed damage so their scaling is all out of whack. That's your typical stat ball champion. They all rely on having high as and onhit. the other 3 build ad anyways and are late game carries so statistically speaking, it's better than warior on those guys. That's why you never see warior o. Anyone who built devour before 6.9.

jaymc11301 votes

Short answer: No.

Farm intensive junglers are never, have never, and will never be viable in solo q. They are only viable on the professional scene unless they get some ridiculous buff that leads to them being the top win rate champion in 4 different roles for a whole month like graves this season.

You cannot win in solo q with a farming jungler with any consistency.

d4rkshock1 votes

Remember sated devour. That item made shyvana, udyr, yi, etc ridiculous. The meta shifted to them and farm jg's dominated the meta. Even solo q. Besides, they don't farm the whole game. It's just for the lanning phase.

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

Remember sated devour. That item made shyvana, udyr, yi, etc ridiculous. The meta shifted to them and farm jg's dominated the meta. Even solo q. Besides, they don't farm the whole game. It's just for the lanning phase.

If you picked a sated JG in diamond and up you were mercilessly berated for trolling the team into an auto loss, which is how the overwhelming majority of those matches turned out.

!00% wrong here. Even at the height of Feral Flare and Weedwick these types of junglers weren't viable in high level comptetive play.

These things are only, and have only, been successful in low level play. Just about the only person on the entire server who can play a farm intensive jungle style with any success is Trick2G and we all hate playing with him because he's a selfish ass hat who mostly refuses to participate as part of the team.

Raiku Kawisa1 votes

No, Riot is actively working against the farm jungler playstyle. With a harsh increase on respawn timers you need to find something tlse to do with your time besides clear.

d4rkshock1 votes

Welp time to invade alot. Most jg's who need lvl 6 suck at ganking so that makes it hard on them. Junglers who need early kills will start appearing. We will se more Lee's rengar, kha, etc. Anyone who can lvl 3 gank. My options are limited now as a jg main

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