Everyone thinks the new aatrox is riven v2 because of his q. First the animations are clunky and you can't aa until after so there is no fast combo. Secondly riven uses her q for mobility and aatrox doesn't and thiry, aatrox has to actually aim his q like it's a daruis e. If there was a fast combo and you didn't have to aim it, then yes riot made riven v2 but that's not the case.
Marothennan18 votesso he's an inferior riven
Slave Knight4 votesso he's an inferior riven
I don't know why you got downvoted, but yes, he is an inferior Darius/Kayne/Riven hybrid that isn't exceptionally good at what he's meant to be doing like the aforementioned champions. They want him to be focused solely on damage but he has no guarantee to secure any of his damage. Darius has more stickiness and damage potential than reworked Aatrox currently.
Teridax685 votesBasically this. Sure, Aatrox's Q is clunkier and has these Camille-style sweet spots, but at the end of the day, it's a three-part AoE dash/damage/knockup combo that will form the core of his total damage output, alongside an E that is intentionally designed to let him quickly reposition his Q. This is literally Riven's core combo. He's definitely got a lot of stuff Riven doesn't have, namely sustain, max health damage, more hard CC overall and a heal/shield debuff, but at the end of the day his new core gameplay loop is one that already belongs to another champion.
Apocalypsic4 votesRiven's core combo isn't E QQQ though. You need to weave autos in a smooth and fluid fashion, which Aatrox is far from.
Don't get me wrong I'm still super hype for Aatrox and as a Riven player I see him as a fun alternative for if she's ever banned or if we need a tankier engage than she provides. But at their core they play nothing alike, I can say this definitely after having played Aatrox numerous pbe games.
Apocalypsic4 votesImplying Riven isn't weak right now and underperforming. Words right of of Riot's mouth btw.
KZ Engel4 votesriven isn't allowed to be statistically good because of her skill cap
Apocalypsic3 votesThat's 100% untrue.
Else Aurelion would be nerfed into the ground.
Riot said she's underperforming, its straight from the horses mouth.
KZ Engel3 votesi thought it was implied that the skill cap comment was on top of her popularity
asol and elise are not popular champions
Apocalypsic3 votesUnrelated. A Sol is primarily played by ASol mains. Hence his massive inflated winrate.
Riven is primarily also only played by Riven mains, yet she performs poorly.
Top challenger Riven's in fact state she's incredibly lackluster right now.
Edit: Riot has repeatedly nerfed her and made direct changes to lower her skill cap in conjunction with said piles of nerfs, so it's really no surprise she can't keep up with other bruisers/assassins.
Ult speed nerf, Ult CD nerf, marking her hp regen down to almost nothing, shitty base stats, destroying her itemization season by season. Removing her best keystones, zero compensation for the loss of CDR runes. I could go on, shits a mess and a half.
KZ Engel2 voteshow the fuck is that unrelated? she's the 7th most played top laner with both a huge skill floor and skill cap, of fucking course she's going to have a 48% winrate
and how the fuck do you figure she's "only played by riven mains" while being in the top 10 most picked top laners
jesus christ you're dense
Automated Riven2 votesRiven has been around a 13% winrate for the last two years. Now she is down to like 8. When she is popular she hits closer to twenty.
Riven is also the most one tricked champ. Out of all the champions due to the insanely high skill needed to use her effectively.
Apocalypsic1 votesI think you meant playrate, friend.
Automated Riven1 votesYa. That one.
GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes8% pickrate= only played by mains. Yup. Especially when you consider toplane ahving like 60 viable picks. 49% average winrate and 60% on mains. "underperforming and weak". For THE supposedly highest skillcap champ. Yeah right.
Z3Sleeper1 votes“Top Challenger Rivens (plural) said she’s weak”.
So you’re telling me that 1 champ out of 134 is taking up 2+ spots on the challenger tier and they’re saying she’s weak??
Apocalypsic3 votesChampions are not what make challenger players challenger.
Back in the days before his rework there was a masters/challenger tier yorick one trick. This was when he was considered a troll pick mind you.
Z3Sleeper1 votesChampions contribute heavily to it. Players making challenger on old yorick proves that yorick could do things that makes him viable that many just weren't seeing.
No respectable challenger player is going to lose to another challenger playing a "troll" champion.
Apocalypsic1 votesChampions come and go from the meta. Yet many of these players remain consistently ranked where they are.
Decision making and game knowledge, along with mechanical skill are what make challenger players challenger.
Z3Sleeper2 votesMeta =/= viable. Yorick was viable, Yorick was not meta. Therefore Yorick can be used to get to challenger.
Meta = Most Effective Tactic Available
Apocalypsic1 votesBy that logic all champions are viable. His winrate was absolute dog feces back then.
So then by dedicating themselves to one champion then everyone should be able to hit plat/diamond/masters/challenger. So then why do we have people in bronze through gold? If champion pick and not player honed skill is the real climbing tool, then why isn't everyone mid-high elo?
Z3Sleeper1 votesAll champions that are viable are viable yes. Currently that includes almost every champion that isn't an ADC (but even then idk which ADCs aren't if any aren't, meta is too fresh right now).
So then why do we have people in bronze through gold?
Don't ask that question, you know the answer. Player skill plays a huge part and champion pick won't completely crush your chances of making it unless you pick something that isn't viable.
Like currently Yorick isn't meta either. However he is by far a viable champion, you could definitely hit challenger with him (that's my goal lol).
I wanna give an example of a nonviable champion, but as of current I really don't know what that is due to the new meta.
Promising Garden1 votesI never knew that Meta stood for something.[sg-lux-2]
Z3Sleeper3 votesHaha yep. Over the many years it kind of just evolved into its own word that people can easily assume the meaning of without knowing what it actually stands for.
Often people misinterpret it though and think it means "Only Effective Tactic Available", which is definitely not what it means.
META and meta are also separate "words". META is an abbreviation, the one we use to refer to the META while meta is a prefix meaning "referring unto oneself". So the "meta" in metaphysics has nothing to do with the acronym we use for LoL's most effective strategy.
Promising Garden1 votesThat's useful information~ You really know your stuff
[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
Onotori1 votesRiot also said Thresh is the weakest support in the game. Just because Riot says it doesn't mean it's not a lie.
Apocalypsic1 votesI wouldn't say weakest, but they're not wrong in that he is not performing very well currently.
ModCaptainMårvelous10 votesAatrox to Riven is like Ryu and Ken.
They contian very similar kits but when you get down to how they play, they're worlds apart in terms of how they play, what they do, etc. Which is ok! However, Aatrox went from being an AA-focused off-tank/brusier to more of a carry AD caster/semi-tank?
TBH, I'd have Aatrox's Q have the animation scale with AS and make them deal autoattack damage (with the edge being a crit). While people won't be happy unless they 100% revert him, I think it at least strikes a decent balance between old and new.
Slave Knight1 votesAatrox to Riven is like Ryu and Ken.
They contian very similar kits but when you get down to how they play, they're worlds apart in terms of how they play, what they do, etc. Which is ok! However, Aatrox went from being an AA-focused off-tank/brusier to more of a carry AD caster/semi-tank?
TBH, I'd have Aatrox's Q have the animation scale with AS and make them deal autoattack damage (with the edge being a crit). While people won't be happy unless they 100% revert him, I think it at least strikes a decent balance between old and new.
I wholeheartedly agree. As it stands right now, RIVEN utilises her auto attacks better than Aatrox does. At least her kit allows enough room/skill ceiling so she can auto weave as well as PROMOTES this idea with her passive.
Battalion8 votesActually it's more like
Both:
Passives empower an auto attack 3x Q ability with similar hitboxes besides iteration 1 W is the only CC ability (though Riven's is better) E's are both dashes (Riven gets a shield, Aatrox gets more damage) R's both make the champion "bigger" (riven sword, attrox model) and increase damage with a secondary effect.
By the direct kit comparison, Aatrox is a worse Riven.
However, Aatrox does take less skill to play, much large hp pool, inbuilt healing, and an on-demand revival. They play two different ways and as such shouldn't be compared that literally. Is Aatrox's kit innovative? Not at all. Is he a Riven clone? Some aspects, yes, others no.
Nyarlathοtep6 votesAatrox does take less skill to play,
Less skill? Are you nuts? Aatrox has to hit the edge of his q in order for them to deal any sort of damage.
Battalion2 votesSo you're going to try to persuade me that Riven takes less skill to play than the juggernaut counterpart based on an AoE ability (that doesn't have to hit the edge) being "difficult" to hit? No thanks.
Nyarlathοtep3 votesUse logic maybe? Aatrox in order to deal damage he has to land his edge q. Riven doesnt. How in the fk riven is more difficult than this aatrox? I mean sure aatrox has a bit of sustain, but so does riven in the form of her shield in e.
And while we are talking about this, aatrox cant animation cancel like riven can (or at least to the extent that she can).
Apocalypsic3 votesAnimation canceling is where the skill comes into play though.
Many riven combos require exact precise timing with 7-8 actions occurring all within an incredibly short time span.
Not really. Learning to do animation cancel isnt difficult. It just requires dedication. After that it is easy. Hell i can do 1 or 2 of them. But i havent dedicated myself to learn more of them.
Apocalypsic2 votesShe has 60+ total combos(ranging from easy to very complex), to perform them perfectly and judge the best application of each one on the spot is literally playing a game within a game.
While i dont know how many combos she has, i do know (from a youtuber that showed how to animation cancel) that most of them, arent practical. So yeah, quantity means nothing when most of them arent worth.
Apocalypsic1 votesThat's untrue. Many of the short combos are useful for use in very brief disengage trades.
?? Indeed most short combos are indeed useful. But overall most of the combos arent practical.
Apocalypsic1 votesWhich combo do you know isn't practical, out of curiosity?
Hell if i remember. All i remember is that that video is hell old. It certainly,also, wasnt a big youtuber.
Apocalypsic1 votesI know the video you're referring to. Considering /r rivenmains uses it as reference material for new learners, it's not as useless or dated as you may think.
Apocalypsic1 votesThat's the one I'm thinkin about.
Battalion1 votesHow many times have you played Aatrox on the PBE and how often have you played Riven?
Apocalypsic1 votesMultiple PBE games testing him with different runes and roles.
EDIT: Going through all the dodges was/is hell.
I have 1.6 million mastery points on Riven. Though many admittedly are from norms with friends.
Battalion1 votesSo perhaps the fact that you have 1,600,000 mastery points on one champion and likley less than 20 games with the new champion is swinging your perspective of difficulty. Kindred isn't hard to play for me and I have 150,000+ (not counting all account totals) of Kindred and they're one of the easiest champions for me to play vs something that I've never played before or have played very little of.
Aatrox is much more forgiving than Riven (more HP, built in sustain, and all 3 Q's have CC) , has less kit depth than Riven, and has a built in revive. Aatrox may not be as powerful as Riven at the top levels of play, but that does not mean that Aatrox is more difficult. I see people going full damage on Aatrox and get stomped, they're building old Aatrox more than the juggernaut Aatrox. He's really not hard to do well with, his base damage is so high that he's always useful.
Apocalypsic1 votesBut.... I never said he was more difficult than Riven. I was correcting someone's statement that because Aatrox lacks in depth cancels that he was harder to play than Riven. This both makes zero sense and is false.
edit: Also on the PBE I've been going cleaver/dd fulltank mostly for Aatrox. I think that Phase Rush is super good on him too.
Battalion1 votes
though I've forgone the 
and used 
. I generally go Jungle with him, so I don't often get enough AA's off on a single target to make it worth while.I've seen some decent success with this build. He's got high enough base damage that only two damage items are needed to get him going.
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FutureCreator8 votesW is the only CC ability (though Riven's is better)
Both aatrox and Riven have CC on their Qs. Riven has a knock-up on her third Q, while Aatrox has shorter knock-ups on all of his Q casts.
Battalion1 votesThat's true, I glazed over that over that.
