Juggernauts so far (Discussion thread)

very long post.

I have a great soft spot for Juggernauts as my favorite class, but I'm a little disappointed in how they've turned out. They overlap a lot with each other, and don't really offer much to their teams besides damage.

I want to talk what these champions offer and what I (and you) think they should be doing. Feel free to add your own two cents, especially any mains of the champions.

A lot of Garen's power is tied to the Villain passive, which is a little wonky and unreliable. Most of the changes to him, including upcoming armor shred buff, try to push him as a teamfighter when his kit lends himself to being bad at teamfighting. I think Riot needs to reevaluate what they're doing with him. In my opinion he should be pushed towards being more of a duelist; since he lacks the sort of AoE that other juggernauts have, let him excel at taking people down 1v1.

- Doesn't feel like much of a Juggernaut at all. Horrible base stats and builds very outside of the class. Plus a gimmicky W and his XP passive, obvious reasons why his rework flopped. His unique qualities should be hybrid or magic damage of the group; I think he should be pushed to have the highest carry potential provided he's allowed to stay in range. He needs a little more autonomy, concerning his W.

- issue with her is that tentacles are almost all of her power, but she cannot get them out fast enough late game. They're too strong early, too weak late. Her E is also a very frustrating mechanic for the enemy being chased off, and I feel not very rewarded for popping the spirit. In my opinion, her E should be reworked to spawn tentacles in the area where the spirit died, instead of following the champion affected. Her niche should be heavy zone control; this works towards that.

He doesn't feel enough like a raiser of the dead. Ghouls are too easily killed and take too long to spawn. Maiden is inconsistent and takes turret aggro too quickly. I think Yorick's minion cap should scale up to 8 with levels, and that his minion stacks should be conserved with him rather than as graves on the ground.

Riot gave up on him completely as a Juggernaut, which I think is a shame.

Same as Garen, but Volibear has always been a champ that just sort of comes in and out of the meta on his own. I think he's very strong right now, but the character is bland and uninspired. His execute and ult are quite nice, but I feel he could stand to get some small-scope changes to streamline him a little bit more.

are the ones I think have a good niche and strong theme. I'm quite happy with how they've turned out, even if I dislike some parts of them.

In addition to champions, Juggernauts have received indirect nerfs that's had noticeable impacts on them through their items being abused by other groups of champions. lost health in favor of AD, lost 100 health because ADCs abused it for a while, and also lost enough stats that, in my opinion, it's now quite inferior to Randuin's, even for Juggernauts. Despite being a class that's meant to prioritize health over resists, they've been building Cleaver and going full tank for a while now.

should be reverted to 500HP 30 AD, or made 400 hp 40 AD. less incentive for ADCs and assassins to buy it, more appealing for fighters.

- Make the bonus AD last for as long as you're in combat, like Maw, and bump the health back up to 500 with a higher total cost. Smooth out the recipe a little, too. Make it more competitive with Maw.

Just 100 more health would be fine. Since Randuin's has more armor and the 10% crit reduction, I think this would be a fair way to make this item a little more competitive.

Feel free to discuss, I'm happy to talk in great lengths about Juggernauts. Any changes, disagreements, or other concerns you have that I didn't think of, please feel encouraged to post.