I hope Taric rework can still go solo top and outdamage Riven every time.

Señor Karthus·Aug 27, 2015·57 votes·6,659 views

Rito please don't force him to support only.

56 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoirAug 28, 201526 votes

"Can go top and outdamage Riven" is probably not near as much of a reasonable expectation as "isn't forced into support only." I think I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I'm doing his upcoming gameplay update and have no real issues with him being playable in roles outside of support. That said, he will most likely be balanced to be played in the support position, but I'd like people to be able to have fun and win with him elsewhere if it's not compromising his overall power level.

CuixAug 28, 20152 votes

Janna, Karma, Annie, Zyra... Riot doesn't have a great track record with letting supports go elsewhere. Lulu is the exception, being almost wholly a solo laner now.

Dr PoroAug 28, 20156 votes

Zyra was originally a midlaner but no one liked her until her strengths as a support were discovered.

Annie is also mainly a midlaner, currently one of the best actually. She's played in midlane 2/3 of the time she's played and has 54% winrate there.

CuixAug 28, 20151 votes

Zyra has been relegated to a pure support champion, as has Annie. They can work mid lane in low-elo games, sure, but so could mid Yorick.

BemaponAug 29, 20151 votes

Lol Annie is a pure support? What game are you playing?

CuixAug 29, 20151 votes

When is the last time we saw any top team, or even kinda-sorta good team, pull out Annie mid?

BemaponAug 29, 20151 votes

Who said anything about teams? You were just talking about low-elo implying solo que. I see Annie mids in high gold/low plat.

I have friends in diamond who still see Annie mids.

CuixAug 29, 20151 votes

I guess I've internalized the whole "below diamond is still low-elo" thing, having reached gold myself last season and seen nothing to indicate actual significant skill.

Annie mid is great when the enemy isn't coordinated and doesn't maintain proper vision control. Her kit is currently balanced around bot lane, though.

DorkunedAurasAug 29, 20151 votes

cough Annie Bot, the Challenger Annie Mid main...

Señor KarthusAug 28, 20153 votes

{quoted}

"Can go top and outdamage Riven" is probably not near as much of a reasonable expectation as "isn't forced into support only." I think I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I'm doing his upcoming gameplay update and have no real issues with him being playable in roles outside of support. That said, he will most likely be balanced to be played in the support position, but I'd like people to be able to have fun and win with him elsewhere if it's not compromising his overall power level.

That is really good to hear. I understand that his main role should be support and I will be happy to play him there if the rework allows him to do that properly, because right now he is behind other supports and he is better in other lanes. But if you tell me that the intentions are that he can also play in other lanes, 60% of my fears go away. Now the other 40% of my fears are: 20% that he can still have his iconic click and stun. 20% that his Armor of the Fifth age looks even more outrageous than before.

Señor KarthusAug 28, 20157 votes

{quoted}

"Can go top and outdamage Riven" is probably not near as much of a reasonable expectation as "isn't forced into support only." I think I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I'm doing his upcoming gameplay update and have no real issues with him being playable in roles outside of support. That said, he will most likely be balanced to be played in the support position, but I'd like people to be able to have fun and win with him elsewhere if it's not compromising his overall power level.

I would still like him to be a Riven counter tho. Taric Taric Taric Taric Riven Taric Taric Taric Taric

Yosuke ApperuAug 28, 20152 votes

he is a riven counter XD

68636949_DELAug 29, 20151 votes

[deleted]

Yosuke ApperuAug 29, 20153 votes

Name the ninety percent that counter her pls :p

Jeddy017Aug 28, 20152 votes

Speaking of which,Is it alright if I can ask what is your opinion of Champs & the number of roles/position they can play? Is it good that champs can be play in multiple position?Or is better if they can only work in one place?Or is it something that varies from champ to champ?

RiotRiotRepertoirAug 28, 201511 votes

I personally think it's cool if champions are played in multiple positions. I can see why the balance team might think it's less cool. I don't think it's a reasonable expectation that a character equally viable in two separate positions, but if the margin is small enough that top Taric can be played to some success despite support Taric technically being stronger, then that's cool by me.

Jeddy017Aug 29, 20154 votes

Okay I see,I always saw giving champs the option to play more than one role more as an option of fun rather than an option of viability. I don't think players want Taric top to be as good as Taric sup in terms of viability,but they want to have the choice to take him to a different role,play him a little differently than intended & finding some success with it.Garen was designed to be played Top,but that's not going to stop people from playing him in the jungle.Would he be the best option in terms of viability?No.Does Jg Garen have to be a priority when balancing him?Unless he's completely OP in the Jungle role & pushing out regular Junglers,nope.It just a fun side option that's different. But some champs are "forced" to go to one role & have the fun options removed because of how Riot balanced them.This happens to a good number of supports,which is why people here are worried for Taric & his top lane capabilities.

Stars ShaperAug 29, 20151 votes

That might be because LoL map/team approach si really "antisymmetric" and doesn't allow shift in positions of carries and supports/tanks. Top Lane is usually a bonus lane where you can choose to go more damage or tankish oriented and the use of TP might be of help for all the other lanes so a tankish/supp char would be good to have in-meta.

Done25Aug 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I personally think it's cool if champions are played in multiple positions. I can see why the balance team might think it's less cool. I don't think it's a reasonable expectation that a character equally viable in two separate positions, but if the margin is small enough that top Taric can be played to some success despite support Taric technically being stronger, then that's cool by me.

Please just make it so that he's allowed to scale into the late game. It used to be that people who went into the "support" position at bottom had to be able to operate on 1~2 items at 40 min in. But thanks to changes supports now have access to more gold than ever and can easily get up to 10k during a 40 min match if they work hard at it.

Duke AnaxAug 29, 20151 votes

I think the idea of "equally viable" is wrong to begin with even in the same position.

Champs are always stronger than others in specific situations. And a large part of those "specific situations" is simply whether the player has practiced with this champ.

Usually those champs that can be played in different positions often have different, not necessarily connected but strong scalings. They change depending on which scaling you support with items.

Taric is such a champ, please don't take that from him.

For example his armor scaling flat armor reduction and AD steroid make him a good AD Fighter, despite him scaling with AP otherwise.

And keep it flat reduction please. I'm already frustrated that you removed that from Soraka and changed it on Ryze. It's an inherently balanced mechanic. It can be abused, but also countered.

Hullabaloo907Aug 28, 20151 votes

I think if tarics gameplay identity is still built around sustain and single target lockdown, it would make sense if he was good at support and top.

FlemmanAug 29, 20151 votes

if it's like lulu ( whose number are done for supp) it should be fine :p

Knight SoIaire Aug 29, 20152 votes

and have no real issues with him being playable in roles outside of support

sounds so fishy

like you wanted to say "we will make it so he is handicapped and only viable as a support ... but can situtationaly provide something meaningful to a team ... still not to much because he has to be a crippled champion aka support"

champions are meant to work in game ... not is a totally specified spectrum of cases .... but just in game

what will you do when meta shifts ... rework him again ?

Oro DeusAug 31, 20151 votes

So, I understand one of the objectives with champ updates is retain their identity but Taric is such an old and underplayed champ, why not change him up a bit? He seems like a good fit for a Juggernaut rework or a bot lane carry a la the new Morde. We already have a ton of supports; whereas, the Juggernaut champ pool is holding strong at 4 (well, 5 if Gangplank is considered one). I guess what I'm asking is, what does Taric offer to the Support role that isn't filled by a current meta support or acceptable off-meta support?

Hullabaloo907Aug 27, 201515 votes

Outdamage, probably not. His rework form should counter her in lane though. He should have a combination of a strong late game with good sustain and survival early to counter champs like riven, jayce, or fiora.

Señor KarthusAug 27, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Outdamage, probably not. His rework form should counter her in lane though. He should have a combination of a strong late game with good sustain and survival early to counter champs like riven, jayce, or fiora.

Why not? I outdamage her every single time I fight her. Force her to use one or two of the Q combo to get to you, or the dash-shield, use your skills with 109 starting armor and watch her melting.

Hullabaloo907Aug 27, 20155 votes

your not really out damaging her the way i look at it. Your just out trading her because you can soak all of her damage while she is relatively squishy. We are probably saying the same thing in a different way.

I think if they have a taric who can stack armor and do tons of damage, they will just nerf him into the ground again. So i would prefer a taric who is oriented around a sustain lane and builds into a strong late game juggernaut.

Señor KarthusAug 27, 20152 votes

{quoted}

your not really out damaging her the way i look at it. Your just out trading her because you can soak all of her damage while she is relatively squishy. We are probably saying the same thing in a different way.

I think if they have a taric who can stack armor and do tons of damage, they will just nerf him into the ground again. So i would prefer a taric who is oriented around a sustain lane and builds into a strong late game juggernaut.

Well yes, out trade is probably the most accurate term. I will be happy with anything that keeps him as a viable solo laner.

AuryielAug 28, 20156 votes

Mordekaiser is proof you'll be forced somewhere

O Fallen ScholarAug 28, 20155 votes

{quoted}

is proof you'll be forced somewhere

Probably this.

JariAug 28, 20152 votes

But a different Rioter is on Taric, so you won't be just forced 100%.

xxxMadLionxxxAug 27, 20155 votes

me too my friend... me too

IxtaliKingAug 28, 20153 votes

I'm quite optimistic about Taric's rework, I think they'll make him better as a solo laner and support... I hope.

Señor KarthusAug 28, 20156 votes

{quoted}

I'm quite optimistic about Taric's rework, I think they'll make him better as a solo laner and support... I hope.

Im afraid because all we know about Rito is forcing supports into support role :/ And about the visual update I am really optimistic. As long as they fix this this size bs http://i.imgur.com/fxPB0wa.png

IxtaliKingAug 28, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fenrir Epsylon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XW53bbBW,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-08-28T17:43:18.753+0000)

Im afraid because all we know about Rito is forcing supports into support role :/ And about the visual update I am really optimistic. As long as they fix this this size bs http://i.imgur.com/fxPB0wa.png

Lol omg that looks hilarious

Señor KarthusAug 28, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Lol omg that looks hilarious

When Tristana, a YORDLE, is taller than Taric and when her head is bigger than his body, hammer and shield combined, you know there is something wrong with his model.

IxtaliKingAug 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fenrir Epsylon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XW53bbBW,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-28T20:03:51.522+0000)

When Tristana, a YORDLE, is taller than Taric and when her head is bigger than his body, hammer and shield combined, you know there is something wrong with his model.

For real, his model is horrid lol

TyroneWatermelonAug 28, 20153 votes

personally i play taric sometimes and i can say his potentiall is wasted on the support role with the support items,he can be a great tank and fighter like malph,i liek to go top :P

Señor KarthusAug 28, 20153 votes

{quoted}

personally i play taric sometimes and i can say his potentiall is wasted on the support role with the support items,he can be a great tank and fighter like malph,i liek to go top :P

I play him jungle the most and then top with the best results. I feel completely wasted when I am support and even then I usually do well because I know him a lot. But still you can't be as tanky as you need.

EndlessSorcererAug 28, 20153 votes

Taric Top

item 3111 item 3025 item 3068 item 3190 item 3075 item 3143

Taric Support

item 3117 item 3401 item 3025 item 3190 item 3143 item 3075

Full build and Fabulous.

Señor KarthusAug 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Top

Support

Full build and Fabulous.

I don't like that build so much. Spirit visage works great on him since his heal is much more effective on himself, item 3065 amplifies that even further. Mercury threads if the team has some heavy AP yeah, but if i really want to crush my AD top enemy i prefer item 3047 I mostly build top like item 1029 item 2003 x5 item 3024 / item 3111 item 3025 item 3068 And then depending i can build item 3190 item 3075 item 3143 or item 3110 Whatever I do my late game has to have the 40% cdr outrageousness that keeps you stunning the carries nonstop during teamfights.

BuzzinTateAug 28, 20152 votes

its probably gonna be something like 'taric throws down a zone, when inside this zone enemies have their defenses lowered and allies have their attacks buffed'

Xela SyabAug 28, 20152 votes

2 things i want from Taric Rework

Increased movespeed towards enemies that are cc'd this would fix his gapclosing problem
His ult has some cc attached to it, stun, knockup, knockback, massive slow.

Dr PoroAug 28, 20152 votes

I agree, but he would need to lose some power elsewhere though. Where do you think they should take it? From the auras? From the CD/CDR? more mana cost? Less Dmg?

Lajinn5Aug 28, 20152 votes

I remember the one time I went Taric top vs a full AD team. I was literally capable of 1v4'ing them late game. Good times....Good times.

Señor KarthusAug 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I remember the one time I went Taric top vs a full AD team. I was literally capable of 1v4'ing them late game. Good times....Good times.

I love those when I play mine. That 400+ armor 4000+ health.

DorkunedAurasAug 29, 20151 votes

But how much damage did you do. 1v4ing is all well and good, but if no one is dying, then it's just kinda pointless. If you wanna 1v5 a full AD team, and come out with a pentakill, get Rammus . I've literally done exactly this.

Lajinn5Sep 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But how much damage did you do. 1v4ing is all well and good, but if no one is dying, then it's just kinda pointless. If you wanna 1v5 a full AD team, and come out with a pentakill, get . I've literally done exactly this.

Tons of Damage, I had a TF with every other item being armor, oddly enough I was slaughtering them

SasogwaAug 28, 20152 votes

wait... OMG REPERTOIR IS BACK \o/ ALL HAIL \o/

On a more serious note, I'd be glad if Taric was a viable sololaner. I remember the one patch where Taric was raidboss and could as a support go in, kill one champion 1v3 and just walk out. That was pretty hilarious. Not that I want him to be OP ofc, but being like... a strong counter to AD, with decent sustain and the armor aura (I'd like to keep that aspect, aura is cool) if he had a bit of teamfighting potential (maybe rework E into another form of CC) could be very interesting to play.

Señor KarthusAug 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

wait... OMG REPERTOIR IS BACK \o/ ALL HAIL \o/

On a more serious note, I'd be glad if Taric was a viable sololaner. I remember the one patch where Taric was raidboss and could as a support go in, kill one champion 1v3 and just walk out. That was pretty hilarious. Not that I want him to be OP ofc, but being like... a strong counter to AD, with decent sustain and the armor aura (I'd like to keep that aspect, aura is cool) if he had a bit of teamfighting potential (maybe rework E into another form of CC) could be very interesting to play.

Something cool could be that his W doesn't only detonates around him, but also around other teammates protected by it, maybe not dealing the damage that it deals around him, but reducing armor to the enemy they are close to, or dealing a slow. That way he would still keep is personal solo damage and effect, but also improving his support potential.