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@PBE @Riot - Can we PLEASE show Cass some love?

Canastus··5 votes·896 views

If immobile mages like Zyra, Veigar and Syndra can get some help, why not Cass, too?

Sure, you might question the warranty of winrates (especially low ones) but if you combine them with an equally low pickrate, there has to be something mighty wrong. Not even her small but dedicated playerbase can make her work. What kind of hypercarry only deals 22k damage while taking as much to the face?

She already is very squishy, you can imagine how often she has to die just to achieve such numbers. Playing Cassiopeia means taking high risks and scoring low rewards in return. Pre-rework Cassiopeia had superior stats in all regards, that's a fact.

The number of scenarios where she actually can spam her Twin Fang uninterrupted (and that without going oom) are extremely slim, so there's no real chance for her to shine. In the end even assassins have a far higher average damage output than her.

She simply has become obsolete, a liability to her own team with an extremely delayed powerspike that often comes far too late to really make a difference due to missing out on crucial objectives during early and midgame.

After all the nerfs she has endured there really isn't any place for her in the meta anymore. Could you PLEASE help her a bit?

22 Comments

Summonerrr 12 votes

It'd be nice if Riot changed her back into an ACTUAL zone control caster instead of this AP/mana Spam-E Rambo-mage that she is now...

I really hate that crap, both playing it and against it, in every way.

Penns1 votes

This is just the graph of today lel.

Canastus2 votes

I didn't know today is the 2nd of September.

You still can look up the graph above the lolking one, it displays her overall winrate.

Penns1 votes

Well then Heimer is the strongest mid laner in the game for ages now :o

Canastus1 votes

Yes, he is. But don't tell Riot about it.

Penns1 votes

Still, idk much about "pro rework Cassio", but that rework made her a top pick for quite some time. Idk why people want this champ buffed lol there are champs with a way lower win rate and a high enough pick rate to judge.

Oerba No Naja1 votes

"high enough pick " all the one trick pony cassio explained her current issues already ,

Canastus1 votes

You don't seem to understand how win- and pickrates correlate to each other.

Low winrates on popular champions are to be expected since they have a huge playerbase, including plenty of casuals. Those who have a high win- AND pickrate are unquestionably overpowered and in need of nerfs (examples: Ahri, Garen, Mordekaiser and Vayne).

Unpopular champions like Cass only have veterans playing them and yet her stats are abyssmal, meanwhile Heimerdinger is the example of an obscure champion working well for his mains (the way it should be) which simply isn't the case for the snakelady.

Penns1 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/cassiopeia Huge spike of win rate for "people who main her", which indicates youre wrong.

If a champ has a low play rate, his win rate wont be as reliable in terms of balance. If it was, Rito wouldve had to nerf Heimer a long time ago lol.

Also, Cassio has higher average dmg dealt than every assassin (Zed, Yasuo, Fizz, Le Blanc, Akali, Riven, Kata, even more than Diana, Fiora and Irelia aka. broken. Even )

In the end even assassins have a far higher average damage output than her.

Canastus1 votes

I'm afraid you're the one who's mistaken.

I have played 1500 games on Cass alone (been playing her since she came out) and been losing nonstop after she was nerfed into the ground. There isn't a single matchup which she could reliably win right now, she has become horrendous to play as.

And you're wrong if you think she still outperforms those assassins, their damage is actually around the same level (20k). There are still 44 other champions above her with Karthus, Kog and TEEMO (!) being at the top, sporting an average of 30k damage dealt per game.

She's supposed to be among the biggest damage dealers in the game and yet she falls 10k damage short of doing that. She can't even fullfill her own role or identity anymore. The entire champion feels like a desolate trainwreck to me.

Penns1 votes

Well those numbers kinda speak for themselves dont they? Maybe these guys just farm and wave clear while you try to win lane? Idk lol.

How comes shes supposed to be the biggest damage dealer in the game? Unlike other high damage late game carries she has pretty good CC, zoning, poke, sustain and wave clear. Shes just an immobile AP... "ADC". Maybe not top tier in the juggernaut meta, but not every champ has to be super viable all the time.

Canastus1 votes

Farming and waveclearing doesn't add to the total damage on the chart, it's only limited to champion interaction. So when it really comes down to fighting, Cass is a huge disappointment compared to someone like Teemo (lol), Karthus or Kog.

She literally only exists to deal unholy amounts of damage, that's her identity as a hypercarry. Her entire kit revolves around spamming her Twin Fang ability, everything else doesn't matter in that rework since her poison damage on Q and W was gutted for good.

Too bad she constantly gets killed off before she can even leave an impact, may it be in lane or during a teamfight. That's what you get for playing a short ranged, immobile, squishy caster with a DELAYED peel ability (R) who's also struggling with abnormal manacosts to make matters even worse for her.

Penns1 votes

Yeah I mean like, maybe the Cass mains that make her have 54% win rate just farm up while you try to win lane and lose because you dont have mana or idk I havent seen u play lol.

She can still be good to fire off a 3-5 man stun that probably just wins you a fight while still doing pretty crazy dmg. Other champs dont have that + built in sustain.

Also by that logic, Vayne is a huge disappointment when it comes down to fighting too and she doesnt even have any utility and really situational single target cc. Which she isnt.

Canastus1 votes

Vayne gets picked in 40% (!) of all games while sporting a 50-51% winrate, that's simply insane. She's supposed to be a hard to play marksman with insane lategame and yet she manages to perform remarkably in every single game she's being played in, no matter who's controlling her. How is that balanced in any sense, considering the huge playerbase and the high difficulty rating she supposedly has?

I'm glad Riot is looking into Vayne nerfs right now. She's pretty much what Lucian was before his nerfs, a champion without any real weaknesses and infinite kiting potential.

Penns1 votes

I never said thats balanced, did I? You just said "when it comes down to fighting, Cass is a huge disappointment..." because her average dmg is lower than the damage of the champs you listed (that dont have any hard CC, no sustain, bad- medicore waveclear except for Karthus, they just have damage in their kit unlike Cass). So that means Vayne is the same disappointment, she even has lower dmg dealt than her.

Hugify1 votes

One day canastus,one day.

Canastus1 votes

One day they're going to listen you mean?

Serevas1 votes

I'd love to see some slight buffs on her, she was one of my favorite mid lane picks for a long time.

I think the issue currently is that all the other popular champions in the meta dump all over Cass.

I'd never dream of picking Cass into Garen Darius Irelia Gangplank for top lane, or even if they were at all on the team, you'd just get murdered. The same goes for champions like Xerath Diana Anivia.

In fact the only champion I feel safe picking Cass into anymore is Annie, maybe Ahri as well.

Canastus1 votes

Picking her into either of these champs is pretty much suicide. Annie can zone her entirely with her point and click stun & burst combo while Ahri simply dominates with her mobility and charm alone.

Serevas1 votes

See it's weird because Annie, Ahri, and Heimer are the only champions I do well against with her. Which is weird, as Heimer feels like he'd be a nightmare if any of them played it right. For Annie/Ahri I grab a Negatron cloak fairly early on and harass her with Q when she tries to last hit, it seems to work fairly well from what I've experienced. I typically build Abyssal Scepter in those matchups anyway, so it just makes sense to deal with the burst during the ramp up time.

Canastus1 votes

I doubt there's any matchup out there which she can reliably win right now, she's simply too underwhelming and not worth the effort. They really need to revert the nerfs to her manacosts, that alone could probably make her viable again.

The Queen Viper1 votes

{quoted}

Not even her small but dedicated playerbase can make her work.

Yes they can... or at least some of them. But sure, it's not easy.

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