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Please don't push this Vlad update through. They're heavy nerfs to just about every aspect of him.

WoonStruck··16 votes·4,956 views

He's weak enough as it is.

Passive: Nerfed. about 37% weaker.

Q: a lot weaker with the exception of when he gets that empowered Q (which can now also be reduced by Randuins). The MS buff isn't enough to cover any of his past issues, and is really only a tease at the fact that Riot could have fixed that. The MS is essentially a weaker Furor enchant, and the damage/healing is double, but that encourages building AP, which made his HP way weaker, which you also need for E to be decent...His Q is a mixed message, and if you build straight to either side, you still won't feel rewarded.

W: Nerfed by 33% and the HP cost is going to hurt a lot more without WotA (his healing wasn't really helped that much unless he's under 50% hp...even then its weaker than WotA).

E: Weaker in every aspect. Made unreliable. Does less dps. Only slightly more upfront burst, at the cost of a channel you'll never get off unless you want to waste W (cast-able during W now). Slows you, negating the Q MS buff, even though you won't have it the large majority of the time you want to E. AND YOU CAN NO LONGER LAST HIT WITH IT UNDER TOWER, WHERE YOU WILL ALWAYS BE PUSHED TO THE FIRST 10 MINUTES.

R: Functionally the same. Damage amp 12%->10%. Duration 5 seconds->4 seconds. Heals for 50% damage, but by the time it pops, fights are already over. A win-more button now...not that he'll ever win with this kit, especially since his only 'utility' is being nerfed too.

All you're doing is nerfing him. The only way for him to work as you're making him is to lower his base damages more, emphasize building HP more, and giving him a defensive steroid. His new kit will not work as a damage-focused sustain champion.

For a champion that already has an extremely low win-ratio, you guys seem like you really want to make him playable... You're basically choosing whether you want Q or E to be viable when you build him. Its a huge nerf to one or the other in any circumstance.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

66 Comments

Over Innsmouth7 votes

I've been hovering the PBE boards a little and there's seems to be a general consensus that while the numbers may be a little on the low side (not cripplingly low though) his new kit is better than his old one, both in playing and counterplaying.

I too look at the numbers and wish they were a bit higher, but I think they're designed for more health-heavy builds than before (still mostly AP though), and they take the extra healing from Crimson Rush and Haemoplague into account. Which is all fine by me.

Besides, there's two weeks of PBE for them to buff his numbers up if they're really that bad - and many more after they hit Live if problems persist.

RiotReav39 votes

This is correct. If Vlad isn't doing great we can bump up his numbers to get him where he needs to be, that's part of putting him on PBE. The good news is that Vlads new kit should be much easier to balance then live Vlad which was one of the primary goals of his update.

Due to the fact that his kit is much less reliable then live Vlad we can co finitely boost his numbers if he is struggling without making him more of a "stat check."

My experience playing new Vlad in internal play tests is that he is much more difficult to play then live Vlad but that good Vlad players will be much more terrifying then live Vlad.

1Ferdinand13 votes

{quoted}

My experience playing new Vlad in internal play tests is that he is much more difficult to play then live Vlad but that good Vlad players will be much more terrifying then live Vlad.

For new players: this means you will have to try him in sandbox before going versus other players, or you are going to have a bad time.

Over Innsmouth3 votes

Ah, thanks for clarifying!

Out of interest and if you're ok to answer; should there be number buffs to Vlad's current kit where would they be aimed?

RiotReav34 votes

Not sure. If he is struggling it would be up to Stashu to figure out what makes sense to buff. My guess would be E damage or maybe empowered Q healing or damage. E CD could be another area. Not a designer, so I'm just throwing random ideas out, could be anything really. For Darius it ended up being the healing on Q which pushed him too far over the top and then ended up with the nerf to Q blade width in the end.

WoonStruck1 votes

I'd say most likely Passive, Q, W, or R.

Passive and W (cost/damage/cd/haste/slow, etc...lots of levers) would be buffs that would have relatively low impact, but be greatly appreciated nonetheless if he's struggling in general.

Q would improve his laning/single target damage/sustain, if that's where he's suffering. Keep in mind his Q is a lot weaker overall than live, even with the Blood Rush proc considered. It took a huge AP ratio hit on both the heal and damage.

R would improve 1v1 all-ins/counter-engage, and teamfights. 1v1 Stashu said could be fixed by making it heal the most from the first target and scaling down with each additional target (effectively giving more heal vs one, same/slightly more in teamfights when compared to current numbers). In teamfights, if its too weak, it can probably get flat buffs, or even bonuses based on number of targets hit.

I'm not a Red, but those are the main tuning points outside of his raw output that I can see.

Photos of Ghosts4 votes

Can we PLEASE have consistency about crit damage? If it's reduced by Randuin, it NEEDS to be increased by runes and IE.

Nazzadan2 votes

{quoted}

This is correct. If Vlad isn't doing great we can bump up his numbers to get him where he needs to be, that's part of putting him on PBE. The good news is that Vlads new kit should be much easier to balance then live Vlad which was one of the primary goals of his update.

Due to the fact that his kit is much less reliable then live Vlad we can co finitely boost his numbers if he is struggling without making him more of a "stat check."

My experience playing new Vlad in internal play tests is that he is much more difficult to play then live Vlad but that good Vlad players will be much more terrifying then live Vlad.

But WHY did Vlad need to be more difficult to play? He was essentially baby's first mage after you over-complicated Ryze. You guys keep taking relatively simple and reliable champions and just butchering them into HIGH SKILL HIGH REWARD THE PLAYYYYZ champions and it's honestly really annoying.

Big Lincoln2 votes

if you think Vlad is complicated now, I don't know what to say

WoonStruck1 votes

Who said he's complicated?

Nazzadan1 votes

[{quoted}](name=IT HURTS SO GOOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XMzB7WTh,comment-id=0008000000040000,timestamp=2016-04-21T01:15:32.981+0000)

if you think Vlad is complicated now, I don't know what to say

What? Read it again. I said he's simple now, and the Rioter I quoted said he is now more difficult. Hello? Are you okay?

DeathBurst1 votes

"more health-heavy" meaning what kind of build?

item 3027 item 3116 item 3151 item 3065 item 3001 item 1001 ?

RoA has lots of health he likes, but lots of mana he doesn't, and a Zhonya somewhere would be nice, for a bit of armor, so I'm not sure. The two new hextech items also have some health. One also has mana (built from Catalyst like RoA), but the other has CDR and that's neat. If you have Abyssal/Zhonya/Hextech stuff you are at 30% CDR, you can complete that with Ionian boots, since you already have Pen on Liandry/Abyssal. Voidstaff is another option, instead of Liandry, probly...

What do you think?

Annoxis1 votes

Lucidity for boots, to begin with. Hextech protobelt on Rod of Ages (you are wasting too much stat and the passive on Vlad, and so too much gold). Zhonya on Abyssal, Abyssal and Visage are making too much RM together, you will need Armor. For Liandry, I have some doubt despite the AP/HP that it gives, Vladimir's healing is not tied to his damage, so I don't think MR penetration is a good stat on him.

The Warmog on PBE lost 50 PV for 10% CDR, I don't know if it should be considered, but you never know. His new fully-charged E deal 10% of PV as damage, so...

DeathBurst1 votes

So if I recap, according to you:

  • Hextech belt
  • Rylai
  • Spirit
  • Zhonya
  • Boots
  • Liandry or Warmog

Keep in mind that Spirit MR got nerfed, though. Not sure it's too much with Spirit+Abyssal, and the offensive stats on Abyssal are nice too, the MR Shred aura fits well in Vlad kit. And since it gives CDR, it allows you to go for Sorc Boots and even more offense. Pen is not here to increase the heal, it's just to increase your damage.

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

So if I recap, according to you:

  • Hextech belt
  • Rylai
  • Spirit
  • Zhonya
  • Boots
  • Liandry or Warmog

Keep in mind that Spirit MR got nerfed, though. Not sure it's too much with Spirit+Abyssal, and the offensive stats on Abyssal are nice too, the MR Shred aura fits well in Vlad kit. And since it gives CDR, it allows you to go for Sorc Boots and even more offense. Pen is not here to increase the heal, it's just to increase your damage.

No, it likely going to be item 3116 item 3089 core to make Q useful in as few slots as possible, since his entire kit's damage essentially revolves around E now.

After that you do item 3065 for the sustain+tankiness

After that item 3742 item 3143 item 3083 item 3151 item 3135 in the large majority of cases.

item 3157 will be a bad buy most of the time on him now, since it offers overall low AP and no health, not to mention it doesn't support his damage pattern as much now.

Rocket belt will fit in there in some cases, but I do not believe it'll be a must-buy with how stat-dependent he is now. The majority of CDR items have huge drawbacks to building now, so brute-forcing HP+AP with the most efficient offensive/defensive combos is the way to go, while running a high-CDR rune-page.

As far as boots go, using Swifties so you can actually get in to deal damage will likely be better than Sorcs unless people aren't running from you for some reason. Especially since you can't run Alacrity anymore.

DeathBurst1 votes

Well, given your whole OP is just a rant on the tune of "it was better before", I'm not sure I should trust you, but for the sake of discussion:

You would actually buy full defensive items on Vlad? I can somewhat understand Warmog for the HP->AP conversion and the CDR, but really, Randuin and/or Deadman? I think that's a lot of Gold spent for Armor, and not enough AP in the build. Zhonya may give only 70 AP, but a Tank Item is around 25 AP after the HP conversion, that's still a noticeable difference.

WoonStruck1 votes

You're right that the OP is ranty. I was pissed that all of his numbers were so low considering he's already weak on live, and they're a nerf relative to that even, however that can be fixed with tuning. My real issue is that his rework didn't solve any of his issues outside of reliability (on the enemy's behalf) when things are in range, which only hit his already shaky performance. He has no way to encourage enemies to get in range unless he's objectively out-gunned, so his kit essentially sets him up to fail even more than before.

Anyway, he doesn't scale well with AP anymore. You want as much as you can get out of a single slot just to push your Q potential as much as you can with the least investment. Deathcap fills that by pushing rylai's (which is still must-buy) and your passive more than any other item in a single slot.

After that, HP does far more than AP will damage-wise. Randuin's lets you maneuver in fights, deadman's does the same. One's more defensive/team-reliant, one's more aggressive/pressure-based.

Remember, his E does FAR more damage than his Q now and all of his AP ratios were hit pretty hard, including ult.

Zhonya's is actually a bad buy on him now, considering it offers no HP and a subpar amount of AP, along with the active not pushing his kit as far as it used to. CDR doesn't make items must-buy for Vlad since 10-30% CDR rune pages exist, along with boots of lucidity (which still isn't must-buy).

Finally, tankier builds suit him much more due to the choices his Q and E force him to make, which is committed ones. He won't be instant-killing Ez (sad times) through heal/lifesteal just because Ez accidentally got close enough for you to R->E->Q. He has to actually be in range for a full second, or step into range (for some reason) while you're charging E, not to mention he needs to be able to survive long enough to Q 3 times, which was rare for AP Vlad (who was tankier pre-rework).

DeathBurst1 votes

OK, fair enough. My experience with Vlad is very limited, so I'll have to believe you about the builds.

That being said, I do believe the rework achieved more than you give it credit for. Maybe the numbers are too low, but now that there is "unreliability" (some would say "counterplay") in his kit, it's easy to just tune the numbers up without making him instantly OP. I'm impatient to meet a reworked Vlad toplane, and I expect the laning phase to be much more interactive than it was before.

WoonStruck1 votes

Actually, he's much more likely to be mid now, I believe. His gameplay revolves around using E much more than before, since he isn't reliant on having WotA now.

Considering top requires heavy trading (especially with his new Q), he'd be heavily pushing via E in order to do so, which spells death with him against the current junglers.

The only reason top Vlad was a thing was because of the offensive/defensive power that WotA+Zhonya's effectively offered in the large majority of match-ups. With the current item 1054 and item 3211 being in the game, his ranged harass is effectively negated by top laners. Even immobile ones. In order to deal damage through that combo, you're forced to use E, which pushes the wave, allowing them to safely farm under tower and call for ganks if you decide to keep pressuring.

Mid-lane he can waveclear safely much earlier and sustain through harass a little better early game, especially since the enemy mid-laner will likely be quickly clearing waves as well, while also having near-supreme safety and objective presence, of which he offers nearly none top lane, even with TP.

Also, your point about numbers is valid, but he'll still have the same issues as old Vlad, just weaker overall if they decide not to let him be insanely strong when under optimal circumstance. That's my biggest issue with his new kit. He'll still likely be either too strong or not offer enough threat throughout the game for people to bother playing him.

**The rework should have addressed that while also lowering his reliability. Instead it just lowered his reliability. **

I can't think of another champion that legitimately requires Rylai's (the rework more than the old Vlad) to function, just like no physical champions require FMal to function. His usability is still low despite the rework, and that desperately needed to be addressed, IMO.

I don't know if they'll allow his new kit to have a juggernaut-like impact considering he's pretty in line with juggernauts, but I have a feeling they won't. I could be wrong and I hope I'm wrong, but they aren't exactly friendly to ranged champions that aren't ADCs.

Sorry for the long responses. lol

DeathBurst1 votes

No prob with long responses. ;)

But if you want a champ that requires Rylai: Mordekaiser. It's also right up there for Aurelion. And it's not exactly mandatory for Singed, but it still changes completely your ability to do your job and splitpush safely. OK, Morde or Singed don't exactly have the highest playrate, but still, they exist.

And since Vlad was the "poster-child" for "Battle Mages" in the dev blog about classes, I'm pretty sure they'll let him have juggernaut-like impact.

Also what do you mean about "usability" and "old Vlad issues"? For me, it was an un-interactive laning phase with no counterplay available and so a champ very hard to balance as a result. And the rework definitely solved that issue. Well, maybe it's a bit early to say "definitely", but that's my strong first impression, at least.

WoonStruck1 votes

Aurelion has long ranged CC, so I'd hardly say its required on him. He simply benefits a lot from it, like Brand. Morde has issues just as big as Vlad's, except he's also melee and part of a currently scrapped project of Riot's. But you aren't wrong.

As far as "usability" and "old Vlad issues", I mean what he can accomplish past laning phase. He has no intrinsic CC outside of a nearly melee-ranged slow that sacrifices his only defensive tool. This means he has absolutely no damage threat or kill pressure unless someone enters his range, which he can never actively enforce.

If Vlad is going to get a kill, its entirely reliant on someone essentially choosing to take Vlad's damage, team-mates, or flash/ghost (reliance on summoner spells is bad; they are a tool, not a crutch). Even when absurdly fed, his kill-potential is relatively low because of this.

The first means extremely unsatisfying experiences for Vlad in many cases, even after you get fed.

Requiring team-mates isn't bad at all, but this is the issue about it: Vlad cannot follow-up on his team usually because 90% (yes, made-up and slightly exaggerated statistic) of the players in a game will have more mobility, range, CC, etc. Usually all 3. The only exception is Morde. He has less of all 3. This makes it extremely difficult, and many times impossible, to get into a position to have a significant impact.

The most Vlad can do to follow-up a large majority of the time is ult. He might be able to Q the closest target. The fight's usually decided by the time he can get into a good position to use E, or a good target for Q.

The new kit isn't nearly as rewarding if you manage to be in range of someone. Yes, its more up-front burst, but its less damage overall, less sustain, and higher costs. Not to mention its less reliable, meaning your power will sometimes be inaccessible even if you do manage to get into a decent position (which is difficult enough).

The heal on his ult makes for a good teamfight interaction...but it being potent requires him to be in the middle of a teamfight, which will still be exceedingly rare at any moderate MMR or above.

DeathBurst1 votes

Well, you were talking about Juggernauts earlier, Garen hasn't much more than Vlad to get in position, and he has even less range, and yet nobody complains. Darius and Nasus have each only one CC-like ability, and no mobility at all. I don't think Vlad will suffer as much as you predict, but time will tell.

WoonStruck1 votes

Darius has CC and an extremely strong early game.

Nasus has CC, debuffs, and an extremely safe early game, and scales insanely well without needing a single damage item.

Garen has a very strong MS buff, silence, defensive steroids, a strong early game, etc, etc.

Vlad has basically nothing early, and scales into some very good damage, but doesn't have a way to output that damage unless the enemy literally lets him.

Vlad has nothing to enable his kit, unlike every other champion in the game, outside of Morde.

Vlad's had that issue for a long time, and its a large part of why he's got such a low win-rate. The update did nothing to fix this.

WoonStruck1 votes

Making any mention of damage is a detriment to your argument.

There's no way to argue his damage went up.

Over 3 Qs, he got a massive damage nerf. E costs WAY more, and does the same/less damage, along with his sustain going down (not even factoring in WotA), and his E not hitting everything in the AoE. Not to mention how mobility is even stronger against him now with the E changes.

Oh, and finally, none of Vlad's actual problems (ability to get around to utilize his kit) were addressed. The Blood Rush MS buff is so short they could make it a X100 speed buff and it would still be insignificant. Especially since its while his Q is on CD.

Let's not forget his base stat 'buffs' were actually nerfs in disguise, outside of his AD.

W and R damage cut by 33%.

He's insanely weak. He's got all of his old issues (unreliability), but now he's made to be mechanically unreliable. The only people that think the new kit feels powerful are the ones that didn't even know what the old kit was capable.

I'd bet $100 on Riot not buffing Vlad for the same reasons they wouldn't buff him before.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

{quoted}

Making any mention of damage is a detriment to your argument.

There's no way to argue his damage went up.

Over 3 Qs, he got a massive damage nerf. E costs WAY more, and does the same/less damage, along with his sustain going down (not even factoring in WotA), and his E not hitting everything in the AoE. Not to mention how mobility is even stronger against him now with the E changes.

Oh, and finally, none of Vlad's actual problems (ability to get around to utilize his kit) were addressed. The Blood Rush MS buff is so short they could make it a X100 speed buff and it would still be insignificant. Especially since its while his Q is on CD.

Let's not forget his base stat 'buffs' were actually nerfs in disguise, outside of his AD.

W and R damage cut by 33%.

He's insanely weak. He's got all of his old issues (unreliability), but now he's made to be mechanically unreliable. The only people that think the new kit feels powerful are the ones that didn't even know what the old kit was capable.

I'd bet $100 on Riot not buffing Vlad for the same reasons they wouldn't buff him before.

I agree. ALL OF HIS DAMAGE was nerfed... IN ADDITION to adding counterplay. That is Definitional Nerf and its completely unacceptable.

When they turned Veigar's Q into a skillshot, they added damage. That's the sort of compensation Vlad should get if they insist on gutting his reliability. Instead... all numbers are GOING DOWN (AND we're losing Spell Vamp).

WitchQueen Annie2 votes

I agree. This new ''REWORK'' is nothing short of a big fat nerf all across to a poor champion that already has less than 50% win rate.

PLEASE stop the rework. I'd rather play Classic Vlad WITHOUT spell vamp then this over-nerfed Vlad they are about to release. This rework is an insult to a great champion.

thumbnail92 votes

Great another champion that is doomed to be bad forever due to wanting to over push him into "skill".

I wonder if we'll put him in the failed rework pile to?

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

{quoted}

Great another champion that is doomed to be bad forever due to wanting to over push him into "skill".

I wonder if we'll put him in the failed rework pile to?

I may have to bury him (my VERY first champion I learned how to League with) myself when they are finished with him.

Its sad when your favourite champ gets reworked by people with no personal attachment or investment with the champion. The numbers are an absolute joke. All abilities have become CRITICALLY less reliable (people will walk away from your empowered Qs... E gets blocked by 1 minion), damage AND sustain has gone down to pathetic levels (hell and this is when we're taking away spell vamp too)...

Oh and why not?

Lets just nerf his Ultimate too because we can (10% instead of 12% damage amp... for 4 seconds instead of 5 why not?)

This is basically Riot Stashu grabbing Vladimir and pulling a Locke Bolton on his right hand. ''You think you're the COOLEST champ in League. And when something goes wrong all you have to do is Q, Q, Q... Well your sustain's not here to help you anymore, and neither is your damage nor your reliability. THIS WILL HELP YOU REMEMBER!''

Launches 6.9

WoonStruck1 votes

You forgot them nerfing his W.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

{quoted}

You forgot them nerfing his W.

Yeah. I did.

And I do wonder... was that REALLY necessary? I mean, you already nerfed like EVERY other aspect of his kit. Might as well show extra spite.

Zorasama1 votes

His E does less DPS? nonono it does RIDICULOUSLY HIGHER DPS with a counterplay as a trade off. Just tested him and I like the change so far (except his Q ;-;)

Old E : At max rank deals 160 (0.45 AP), ramp up to 320 (+0.45 AP) on 4 stack with 4.5s cooldown. New E : At max rank, a full charge deals 130 (+10% max HP) (+0.7 AP) with 5s cooldown. And the cooldown start on cast so charging to full duration doesn't affect his DPS. No stacking needed. You normally have around 3k max health anyway so you can just +300 damage to that.

MatthewRT22 votes

it can EASILY be creep blocked so you now only have one move for trades unless you want to use 30% of your health every time you trade so you can land it and pool to safety so you don't die

WoonStruck2 votes

{quoted}

His E does less DPS? nonono it does RIDICULOUSLY HIGHER DPS with a counterplay as a trade off.

Old E : At max rank deals 160 (0.45 AP), ramp up to 320 (+0.45 AP) on 4 stack with 4.5s cooldown. New E : At max tank, a full charge deals 130 (+10% max HP) (+0.7 AP) with 5s cooldown. And the cooldown start on cast so charging to full duration doesn't affect the cooldown. No stacking needed. You normally have around 3k max health anyway so +300 damage to that.

He has to channel for it, which is going to make it way less reliable, along with being blockable. It has double the CD. Way higher HP cost. You're going to have less than 3k max HP after this rolls out. Not to mention Q ends up far weaker as well. Late game its CD was nerfed by 25%.

He's going to deal less damage AND be less reliable.

He might be able to lane a tiny bit better (only after level 9), but he also will not function against aggressive lanes now.

This 'rework' is making him worse in just about ever aspect outside of thematic. The functionality needs huge changes.

MatthewRT22 votes

{quoted}

He has to channel for it, which is going to make it way less reliable, along with being blockable. It has double the CD. Way higher HP cost. You're going to have less than 3k max HP after this rolls out. Not to mention Q ends up far weaker as well. Late game its CD was nerfed by 25%.

He's going to deal less damage AND be less reliable.

He might be able to lane a tiny bit better (only after level 9), but he will not function against aggressive lanes now.

This 'rework' is making him worse in just about ever aspect outside of thematic. The functionality needs huge changes.

About the Q

If you read everything it looks decent but a loss of 70 dmg at lvl 5 WHAT?!?!? OH! a new bufff WOW 100% more dmg NEAT!

!!!!!!!BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! really it's just a fancy looking "buff" that makes you feel like they made improvements. on third Q it does 100% more dmg right? so you lose 210 dmg with update and only get an extra 160 back, so your still losing 50 overall dmg within the three Q's PLUS item 3143 reduces that extra passive dmg. old Q=0.6 AP NEW Q=0.45 AP..........wow such buff

Zorasama1 votes

I just played him in PBE, his passive health doesn't hurt that much, I had around 3k health with full AP build, 3.5k if I buy a bit HP.

Laning before level 9 is not that bad but yes it's a bit worse, empowered Q can win trade easily so if you manage your Q properly aggressive laners aren't that much of a problem. Your empowered Q is basically auto win trade tool. You can also slow with E if they go ham on you.

He now deals A LOT more damage but less reliable.

MatthewRT23 votes

base damage lowers lvl 5 Q from 210 to 160 thats 70 lost dmg and scaling lowered from 0.6 to 0.45

SO, who the fuck you tryna fool I did the math and even taking into the new buff empowering Q its just a fancy looking "buff" that makes you feel like they made improvements. But on third Q it does 100% more dmg right? so you lose 210 dmg (with the 3 attacks) with update and only get an extra 160 back, so your still losing 50 overall dmg PLUS lower AP ratio and item 3143 reduces that extra passive dmg. ..........wow such buff

Zorasama1 votes

It's not third Q, it works similiar to Yi's passive. Q (1 stack) -> Q (2 stacks) -> Empowered Q (1 stacks) -> Q (2 stacks) -> Empowered Q (1 stacks) -> and so on.

If you take 1 sec cooldown nerf into account, yes his Q dps is actually a little bit weaker, but it heals a LOT higher. And I never said they buffed his Q >.> they actually shifted some Q power into E.

I don't know if he's 'better' or not since I just played 1 game, we'll have to wait and see. As I said, he's less reliable.

MatthewRT21 votes

the current thing is a bug its supposed to be Q(1stack)->Q(2Stack)-Q(empowered) repeat so it will activate on the third q you cast and not give a stack. (Also some talk of making it 100 and 200[100 each stack] so its easier to manage how much time is left with the passive)

Quote: "Your empowered Q is basically auto win trade tool" rly, autowin looks like its being considerd a buff there.

Zorasama1 votes

It is an auto win trade tool. It deals very high damage and heals him by tad amount, but that's just empowered. His normal Q is...shit. And enemy can just run away from you when your Q buff is up, so... ¯_(ツ)_/¯ But no one is going to trade with his emQ for sure.

MatthewRT21 votes

His empowered Q heals less than a live q would at lvl 5 and having same AP i feel like that is major problem

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

His empowered Q heals less than a live q would at lvl 5 and having same AP i feel like that is major problem

The blood rush Q would make up for it if WotA were still in the game. I'd rather them just flat out give him 10% damage vamp and nerf his Q sustain just a little more. At the very least they could have left the ratio at .25.

MatthewRT22 votes

I feel like vlad is gonna be the next Yorick and that kills me inside because i've loved vlad since he first came out

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

As I said, he's less reliable.

This is my biggest issue. He's eating number nerfs along with this.

He was already extremely situationally unreliable. His teams positioning, their teams positioning, their team's builds, your team comp, their team comp, their mobility, your mobility, do you have Rylai's, do you have void staff, do you have zhonya's, do you have 40% cdr, are you somehow far ahead, do you have your E stacked, can you proc storm-raider's, etc, and it was very easy for things to end up sub-optimal for him, even if they start optimal just due to his lack of ability to reposition well. Just one of these things being out of your favor can make it so you absolutely will not function. His animations and self silence on ult held him back a lot as well.

Now you have to wait for CC to be used in order to E. Basically can't E unless W is off CD. Need to have stacks on Q. Need to wait for ult self silence still. Not as tanky because you need to build glass to do decent DPS; can't focus on HP or Q will be useless. Number nerfs all-around.

There's a lot wrong with the new kit. It can be tweaked, but atm its pretty bad. He won't be able to fight anyone he doesn't have a significant lead on. His 40+ minute win-rate will be sub-40% for sure.

newbin1 votes

This isn't a nerf it's a shadow revamp. His play still will be AP bruiser instead of tanky ap. Increased his harassment potential in lane but trading some late game power for survival and staying power.

A better description would be a VLad who was feed early game so mid game you can't get ride of him in team fights because you can't out pace his sustain. does that make sense to any one?

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

This isn't a nerf it's a shadow revamp. His play still will be AP bruiser instead of tanky ap. Increased his harassment potential in lane but trading some late game power for survival and staying power.

A better description would be a VLad who was feed early game so mid game you can't get ride of him in team fights because you can't out pace his sustain. does that make sense to any one?

His harass potential is weaker. Q does less damage, heals less after rank 3, and in situations where you can actually trade, E costs WAY more without significant payout until way late game, where its still weaker than old E DPS-wise.

Not to mention that, despite Q being weaker in just about every way, and just barely stronger with the rush proc, he no longer has WotA as a crutch and Randuins lowers its damage as well.

This new kit is a wash. You need HP for E to feel good, but you need 100% glass cannon AP for Q to feel good now.

Less burst. Less DPS. Squishier. Worse Vlad than the already pretty bad one. Can't even use the E+Q->stormraider's surge proc to let you actually teamfight decently with the new rework.

Lajinn51 votes

The way I see it, the changes will probably make him a bit easier to balance. Without WotA and giving him a bit less guaranteed damage, it will make it easier for them to increase his power without making him unbearable. (Because to be honest, in his current incarnation Vlad becomes outright cancer if he is extremely strong, with most of his counterplay being don't be melee/don't be in range of him)

MatthewRT22 votes

"in his current incarnation Vlad becomes outright cancer if he is extremely strong" wow i had no idea that a champ could become cancer if they are strong...like Ekko and Zed and Leblanc and Kahzix and Jhin and Jink and... EVERY CHAMP IN THE GAME THAT ISN'T A SUPPORT (excluding karma and Morgana) there are quite a few champs that are don't be melee and don't be in range like all the adc's and just about every mid laner

WoonStruck1 votes

Actually, ironically, most melee can crush him after spirit visage+mercs just by walking up and autoing him to death if he over-extends in lane.

If anyone's smart enough to start dshield->cowl vs him, they're untouchable to Vlad.

MatthewRT21 votes

TRO #Mpen_runes_4_lyfe

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