The AP item changes are super exciting! :D

Lao Fu the Tiger··12 votes·2,010 views

As a Swain player, I feel both excited for more DOMINATION but also scared for nerfs ;_;

For those unaware, these are up for testing. I'm excited! I love the direction.

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/06/red-post-collection-core-ap-item-pass.html

Changelist Blasting Wand Cost: 860 G --> 850 G Needlessly Large Rod Cost: 1600 G --> 1250 G Ability Power: 80 AP --> 60 AP

Rabadon's Deathcap Recipe Change: NLR + Blasting Wand + Amplifying Tome Total Cost: 3300 G --> 3500 G UNIQUE Passive: 30% Ability Power Amp --> 35% Ability Power Amp

Zhonya's Hourglass Total Cost: 3300 G --> 3000 G Ability Power: 120 Ability Power --> 100 Ability Power

Luden's Echo (Summoner's Rift) Total Cost: 3100 G --> 3000 G Ability Power: 120 Ablity Power --> 100 Ability Power Movement Speed: 7% Movement Speed --> 10% Movement Speed

Archangel's Staff (Summoner's Rift) Recipe Change: NLR + Tear of the Goddess + 1030 G Total Cost: 2700 G --> 3000 G Ability Power: 60 Base AP --> 80 Base AP

Seraph's Embrace (Summoner's Rift) Ability Power: 60 Base AP --> 80 Base AP

Rod of Ages (Summoner's Rift) Total Cost: 2800 G --> 2700 G Health: 450 Base Health --> 300 Base Health Mana: 450 Base Mana --> 400 Base Mana Passive: 20 Mana Growth / 200 Maximum Mana --> 40 Mana Growth / 400 Maximum Mana Passive: 2 Ability Power / 20 Maximum Ability Power --> 4 Ability Power / 40 Maximum Ability Power

Nashor's Tooth Total Cost: 2920 G --> 3000 G Attack Speed: 50% Attack Speed --> 40% Attack Speed Ability Power: 60 Ability Power --> 80 Ability Power

Rylai's Crystal Scepter Recipe Change: NLR + Amplifying Tome + Giant's Belt Total Cost: 2900 G --> 3000 G Passive Single Target: 35% Slow for 1.5 seconds --> 40% Single Target Slow for 1.5 seconds Passive AoE: 15% Slow for 1.5 seconds --> 40% Slow for 1 second Passive DoT: 15% slow for 1.5 seconds --> 20% Slow for 1 second

Haunting Guise Total Cost: 1480G --> 1500 G Liandry's Torment Recipe Change: Haunting Guise + Blasting Wand Total Cost: 2900 G --> 3000 G Ability Power: 50 Base AP --> 80 Base AP

Will of the Ancients Spell Vamp 20% Spell Vamp --> 0% Spell Vamp New Passive: Your spells and abilities heal you for 15% of the damage dealt, calculated BEFORE your opponent's resistances. 33% effect for AoE Spells.

OmNomNomicon Recipe Change: Codex + Idol + Amplifying Tome Total Cost Unchanged

Athene's Unholy Grail Recipe Change: Codex + Chalice + Amplifying Tome Total Cost Unchanged

Void Staff Total Cost: 2295 G --> 2500 G Ability Power: 70 Ability Power --> 80 Ability Power

26 Comments

Chessburger6 votes

No twin shadows change? :( I'd really like for that item to at least be useful as a niche (MS on luden's with more burst makes it impossible to fit anywhere right now, + it lost the MR it used to have so that's also gone)

Syndrarella1 votes

[deleted]

Chessburger1 votes

I was referring to Rift, I don't play other modes. I have never had a situation where I would want to build twin shadows over luden. Even if there's a teemo (though I haven't seen that champ in a very long time, nor is he any trouble).

ChaosThief1 votes

I find twin shadows great personally. But then again, I'm starting to runitem 3285 item 3100 item 3023 and no boots...

Aperez607725 votes

Who needs boots when you can get a Rabadon's and 5 Ludens jk

Critmaster Garen5 votes

why are they buffing deathcap?

shouldnt they just reduce the ap % and price, and increase the ap values across the other ap items? they tried something like that in the past just by reducing the % passive to make the item not second buy on every mage, and increase overall diversity. because you could buy other big ap items instead of deathcap early on and not lose out.

which was a good idea and in principle it worked. the only problem was, that they just didnt compensate for the overall loss of ap, and ended up increasing it again. why not take the opportunity to do both? balance deathcap and other big ap items out against each other, and increase the ap values on some of the utility items like athenes and morellos etc. to compensate.

but just straight up buffing the item might cause it to be rushed on every mage just like infinity edge on every carry. thats not going to increase build diversity.

and buffing archangels ap? especially in combination with the buffed deathcp passive, will that not achieve the opposite of what theyre planning? seems to me like the optimal path for raw ap will always be seraphs + deathcap + zonyas/ludens instead of ludens + hourglass + deathcap.

edit.: wait. 40% slow on aoe abilites? is that actually real? thats not going to make it to live, lol. that would be retarded.

Abyssphere2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XMrqNEFm,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-06-18T13:13:46.903+0000)

why are they buffing deathcap?

shouldnt they just reduce the ap % and price, and increase the ap values across the other ap items? they tried something like that in the past just by reducing the % passive to make the item not second buy on every mage, and increase overall diversity. because you could buy other big ap items instead of deathcap early on and not lose out.

which was a good idea and in principle it worked. the only problem was, that they just didnt compensate for the overall loss of ap, and ended up increasing it again. why not take the opportunity to do both? balance deathcap and other big ap items out against each other, and increase the ap values on some of the utility items like athenes and morellos etc. to compensate.

but just straight up buffing the item might cause it to be rushed on every mage just like infinity edge on every carry. thats not going to increase build diversity.

and buffing archangels ap? especially in combination with the buffed deathcp passive, will that not achieve the opposite of what theyre planning? seems to me like the optimal path for raw ap will always be seraphs + deathcap + zonyas/ludens instead of ludens + hourglass + deathcap.

edit.: wait. 40% slow on aoe abilites? is that actually real? thats not going to make it to live, lol. that would be retarded.

The point of the changes is that placing a bigger burden on Deathcap to provide your high AP total in the end game frees you up to choose different items to complete the rest of your build. Deathcap is the heart of your build, yes, but its increased % AP buff combined with the AP nerfs to Zhonya's and Luden's mean you're not forced into the "need all three 120 AP items" build anymore. Deathcap being more powerful gives you a lot more breathing room for every other slot in your build and that combined with the giant AP buffs to Liandry's/Nashor's + the nerfs to Zhonya's and Luden's means you can hit a similar amount of AP every game while actually having variety in your build. You're much more free to build according to the situation you're in (i.e. Rylai's if you need strong self-peel or Liandry's if people are stacking health) without missing out on massive amounts of damage because you dared to not build all the 120 AP items, and people who lacked synergy with Luden's or had particular synergy with other niche items (Lich Bane, Liandry's) aren't punished as much as they once were for having a different build.

Seraph's will never be a staple item either. People need cooldown reduction and for that reason alone Grail and Morello will always have a place. This change + the ROA buff just means you're not at as big a disadvantage now if you choose mana over mana regen. And if you haven't noticed, Archangel's is 3000 gold now compared to Grail being 2700 and Morello being 2300. There's a lot of reasons to go for the cheaper item there, even before you get into the fact that Archangel's takes so long to fully turn on.

Lao Fu the Tiger1 votes

Two champions they're worried about are Teemo (new Nashor's + Liandry's), Cho'Gath (40% slow on every auto with E trololol) and Vlad (40% slow on all abilities).

It's going to be insane.

ArkenStorm4 votes

Veigar approves very much

Syndrarella3 votes

[deleted]

IcyPepper1 votes

I'm wondering if Will of the Ancients will be able to stack with item 3146's spellvamp. I might have missed it if someone said anything about it.

SouL1ess3 votes

Oh good

they realized that no one wanted to buy Deathcap when Luden's and Zhonya's exist

T 4 K E 0 V È R2 votes

What? Oh no...no no no no no no no... 40% slow on AoE? Good luck trying to escape a Rumble.

Sire Hippington4 votes

rumbles aoe remains a dot, so 20%....

Critmaster Garen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XMrqNEFm,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-06-18T13:26:32.535+0000)

rumbles aoe remains a dot, so 20%....

oriannas q wont. neither does ziggs q. i dont look forward to be constantly slowed by his bomb spam.

Lao Fu the Tiger2 votes

Don't forget Vlad.

Hupsis3 votes

Karthus

SlytherinUmbreon2 votes

Nasus We will Q, They will QQ.

Sire Hippington2 votes

overall a nice changes, and Deathcap+voidstaff are already core on every mage that wnats to deal damage in the late, so not much changes here(naybe putting the a bit up in the build order), while the other three slots are freed up for more variation.

However, there are still some things to question: Morello and Athenes are still to similar in their niche, we lack potent cdr items that don't offer mana(increasing item 3152(oritem 3023 item 3060 ) cdr to 20% and uping the price slightly would go a long way)

But mostly, the Nashors changes go in a totally wrong direction. Nashors had it's own niche for AS-scaleing APs, lowering the AS and buffing the AP moves it closer from it's nich towards generic ap-item. Thers no point in trying to make it appealing for mages with no initate AS-scaleing, as Lichbane for most would be the superior dps item(if the proc is used every 2.4 sec(most mage have a spell around that cd with cdr), it's ~32+0.2 ap dps with lowish risk, while nashors without aditional AS gives around 18+0.18 dps(Ahrie), depending on base AS. The niche of Nashors should be helping those with AS-scaleings, not creating AS scaleing out of nowhere.

Imo the needed changes for nashors would be more base damage and less ap ratio on the on-hit to support more tanky rather than ap-heavy builts aswell as giving some managain on-hit(probably with slightly increased goldcosts in return). If you go for nashors, you go for sustained dps(AS+CDR), if you go for sustained dps, you put your self into harms way for a longer time, which means you will need some sustain and tankiness. Right now, it's only real users are Teemo Kayle and maybe AP-Kog, as they have ranged dps and not to high mana costs, so they don't need sustain and can afford an Ap-heavy built rather than going more tanky. Melees with magical on hit Like Diana really need to get some tankiness to utilize AA-dps, and if she stays longer in a fight with cdr, she needs tons of mana.

I also feel like item 3100 still is in a rather weak spot since the changes, only seen on Fizz and Ekko aswell as sometimes on TF or Akali It's niche has partially been taken by Ludens, which simply offers better stats and a more convenient Damage Proc.

DrCyanide1 votes

This will be interesting. I wonder how long it will take for players to adapt into different builds.

B1naryB0t1 votes

Why does it seem like it's all way more expensive?

Jungle Lux God1 votes

There's definitely a lot to be excited for with the AP itemization changes, although I can't yet say how much I can be excited for. I play a lot more jungle, where a lot of AP champions are completely unplayable, and I would have to see how Runeglaive improves the ecosystem for AP champions in the jungle before I can truly get excited for these changes.

To me, it seems like a lot of AP builds are going to be more viable, although to me it seems like Mana-based builds and control oriented builds are going to be dominant over raw damage-oriented builds.

Seraph's Embrace giving 80 mana plus extra AP based on your mana and Rod of Ages giving a maximum of 100 AP with 800 maximum mana might offer too much power into mana based builds. Of course CDR is also really important and stacking tear/RoA both take time, so both would probably be pretty balanced because of these weaknesses.

Control-based builds seem a lot better because of the new Rylai's. 40% slow on AoE abilities seems ridiculous, especially on champions that have a spamable AoE non-DoT abilities. There aren't too many champions that already fit this bill that aren't already control oriented, but those that do would probably be building this item for sure.

werewolvecaster1 votes

item 3151 they still need to put a minimum damage on burn.

IcyPepper1 votes

item 3070 Evelynn

KumoJorogumo1 votes

The new rylais on fiddle though. Maybe I'll see some crowstorms on the rift again soon.

All Skillzz1 votes

Ezreal item 3285 item 3165 item 3040 item 3089 item 3100 item 3116 Scaling cdr blues. Try and catch me with my 6 sec E cooldown and 1200 ap lol. aoe slow W and R if they getting alot of mr sub the ludens for void.

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