PSA: If your jungler isn't a powerful ganker, DONT PUSH YOUR LANE SO HARD

Profirix··44 votes·2,866 views

There are many different junglers in this game, some of which can easily gank at level 2-3 and others who struggle to gank until after level 6, or until they have enough damage to burst the target. If you are playing a champion that does not A) provide hard cc or B) have enough damage to kill your opponent before they can reach their tower, don't push your lane. Every time you push your lane past the midline, you open yourself up for a gank from the opposing jungler. If you are playing against a lee sin, expect him to gank early. Find out which side he is starting on and ward the opposite side (usually they go red-blue) then gank.

Don't expect a Shyvana jungle to gank if you are pushed up and don't get mad at your jungler when you pushed the lane and are severely punished by a gank. Play around your jungler and the enemy jungler. Too many games I see either mid or top push their lane very hard and get ganked very early. Know your opponent's jungler. If they have hard gap close with high damage, DO NOT push. Your Shyvana will be a tough nut to crack when she gets farmed and starts engaging mid to late game if you give her the chance. Don't force a champion to play a role they were not intended to play.

That is all.

-Jungle Main

EDIT: I suppose I wasn't terribly clear. There are champions whose identity revolves around pushing mid really hard and then roaming. They can do this quickly and effectively so that the jungler does not have much of a chance to gank them. There is also the case of shoving your lane right before you are about to back or right after your opponent backs so as to deny them CS and force your wave to bounce off of their turret.

I was referring to the standard lane where neither champion benefits from shoving the lane for prolonged periods of time when the gank threat is high, especially given the current meta of high-impact, heavy hitting, ganking junglers. To those saying that picking anything but a ganking jungler is asking to lose the game, I disagree, and argue the notion that your team can increase their chances of winning significantly if they play around their jungler's strengths and weaknesses, and don't just assume that the game is lost because they have low impact early game.

40 Comments

Supreme Senpai696 votes

Lol why not? Even when I'm under my own tower for five minutes straight and the enemy has no flash I don't get ganks. I might as well try to force the enemy ADC to lose some farm while I'm at it. In fact even when I'm under tower 3-4 come down to gank so I might as well have the wave at their tower. That way my team has some time to react before my tower falls.

Stephenizgod5 votes

If you are not picking a strong ganking Jungler you are handing the enemy team the game. The game is decided by which Jungler has more pressure early on, ever wonder why all your lanes are feeding and the enemy jungler has 80% kill participation? Its because they picked a strong ganking champion and then ganked. I can play safe all i want in my lane, but if the enemy Jungler is going to dive me there isn't much I can do because the cotton ball launcher isn't going to do jack shit to help me.

While I agree that you shouldn't push your lane if you have no vision of the enemy jungler and your Jungler is on the other side of the map, I think it is just not a good idea to not pick a strong ganking champion.

Profirix3 votes

So that limits the effective jungler pool to what, 5 champions? I don't buy that. Jungle is about opportunity. If your team can deny opposing junglers opportunity and you can capitalize on their mistakes, then you can win the game.

Stephenizgod4 votes

Yes. That is why Vi, Lee, Kha and such are so strong. Unless you ban them all, you are very limited in what you can play and be successful with. People can downvote all they want, but that is just how this meta works right now. One Jungler is more active then the other, turrets can not protect from dives even by non-squishy champions, and so one team gains an incredible lead over the other fairly early on. If you could "deny opposing junglers opportunity" then I wouldn't have even brought it up in the first place. Your only choices when you are about to get dove is leave your turret or have your Jungler counter-gank. If your Jungler is not strong in a 2v2, you are going to get dove and killed unless you had already left. Regardless of whether they kill you or not, their laner gets a huge advantage and lane control.

It is when both teams have an active Jungler that game times are increased, otherwise one team will decide the game around 10-15 minutes. Obviously in lower elo, throws happen and this can lead to stalls and comebacks. You can play non-gank oriented Junglers and have success, that is not what I am saying, it is just an advantage to have a strong ganking champions who can pressure early on. If your team is late game, like Twitch, Vayne, Jax, etc, you can stall if you know how to defend and push out waves. This however depends on how fed the enemy team is and if they are grouping or not.

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

OMG this. I whenever I see the enemy team pick a meta jungler while mine picks one with a poor clears and weak ganks makes me cry.

Stephenizgod1 votes

The nerfs to the Jungle in this recent patch just made it worse too.

dominusx4 votes

Or. Dont push your fkn lane in general you just ask to get punished either by a play from the enemy or the jungler or a teleport etc etc. + you handicap your own jungler cause he has to commit near the tower and if you get counterganked near the tower good bye game

Big Lincoln1 votes

but aggression is always the correct play

t. gold 4 fun

dominusx1 votes

go watch Arxhgos on youtube have fun seeing aggresion. And the main reason greek players are trash outside diamond 1 :p

Ariel the Cruel3 votes

Nah. Push lane. Shove it under turret like those magazines when your parents come to visit. Ganks? Nah, our Twitch can't gank for shit. In fact, you should bring your Jarvin. We can have a giant dance party under my Turret!

######. . . Before Twitch and I murder you both.

Yours truly, Leona /Morgana / Nautilus

P.S. Illaoi said she's feeling lonely. You should 1v3 her again.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

That moment when liking something is more popular than the thing you liked (upvotes). XD

Stay classy, LoL Forums.

kasfas2 votes

I had a game recently with a WW jungle ( ofc) while I was playing sion, and he was headed to topside jungle as I was pushing into my eny laner's tower. (Red side) "By the time he finishes his camps" I think, "the lane should be pushing back to me." So I ping him for help when the lane starts pushing back from enemy tower, and he just finished krugs as my opponent over extends. He has decent health and mana and I have enough mana to get a cc combo in. He sits around, then just backs right there in the krug pit.

I thought to myself "What. The F&ck. Dude. Like, that was the perfect opportunity to frank and you blew it. I even F&cking asked you for help in advance to let you know."

The point of the story is, even if you aren't a powerful ganker, that doesn't mean you can't gank. Especially if someone else has coordinated the whole thing for you.

Profirix3 votes

Absolutely, situational awareness is very important, especially if your opponent is pushing his lane towards you. Junglers need to be able to read these things, but I notice more often than not, whenever I get flamed about not counter-ganking, it was the laner who was determined to overextend.

Karn Bishop1 votes

WW main in training here, i understand why he might have done that as ww has ok early ganks but they can easily go wrong, out of curiosity i checked that matchup and the enemy was a graves top + Rammus jungle which can be risky for WW to gank especially if rammus shows and taunts him, and given how squishy WW is until he finishes an hp item or two if you didn't both wombo graves right away WW still might have died for the attempt even 2 v 1 with proper graves kiting and timing.

edit: ww is a lot like leona actually, great in a sudden lane gank but until she has a few items if you get scared and start to back off leona will likely die for it and so will WW unless he has the items needed to survive such a thing.

kasfas1 votes

still, i was sion. I had enough cc to stop graves from moving and he had his q which would keep him on graves even if he could dash away. Again, WW might not be a powerful ganker, but if i make it that easy he should be there and maybe blow graves' flash or something.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Depends actually. Some junglers, like Kayle, love when you push up because you can dive easily with her ult. Or you just straight up siege the turret.

Troll for Trump2 votes

Well.

There are some options.

You push, actually have lane prescence, and make your opponent fall behind.

You're even, in the middle of the lane. You have confirmed that you won't gank. The opposing jgler doens't give a sht about wards. No one gives a sht about wards. I ward the river, I see hecarim coming, and I run, but I can't outrun him and the laner. I'm doing all the right things, but it doens't matter.

Play defensively, be prone to diving, lose cs/gold every second, while you just farm.

Yeah, remember when lane bullies were a thing?

Kirius Dark1 votes

But if you dont push your lane you can't kill their tower. Prolonging laning phase just to farm wont win you the game or your lanes. Many lanes also highly encourage shoving lane to shut down the CC/poke on the other laners when you have a minion wave and they dont (thresh, blitz, ez).

When the lane is pushed and properly warded to watch for ganks, then as the jungler you can apply pressure elsewhere ESPECIALLY if you're not a ganker then you can counter jungle and invade. If you're not a ganker you want your lanes to shove to draw their jungler out then you can help shove a pushed lane to take towers or to take the enemy jungle. If you ARE a ganker then that's when you dont want your lanes to shove so hard that you cant gank.

You have it backwards

Profirix3 votes

Clearly I am referring to the earliest parts of laning phase. It's about situational awareness and understanding your opponents. Unless you intend to roam (ASol) or back, you should not be hard shoving your lane. You should also not be blaming your jungler when you get ganked by a Lee Sin or Xin Zhao if you play so far up without proper vision. I can't help you if you die twice within the first 5 minutes because you don't respect your lane or their jungler. Not all junglers are created equally.

Raven Redeemed2 votes

While that true, there are occasionally some really good reasons to push. Putting a mild push on the lane can keep you safe from the enemy lanner as they will (probably) take a lot of minion damage if they want to fight, lose cs if they want to fight, and use their abilities to cs instead of fight. Also fully pushing the wave can provide for a safer gank opportunity because everyone can get into position for a tower dive while the minions are taking tower agro. And sometimes it is best to just control the lane even if that means no jg support and a higher risk of ganks.

Profirix2 votes

I didn't make that clear in my original post. I have edited it. Thank you for reminding me.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

Shyvana is a super strong counterganker, and pushing your lane early with her on your team is a great strategy if she knows how to take advantage of it.

Rakdos Cackler1 votes

I basically main jungle now, its my favorite position to play (even if my actual mains aren't junglers) and I dont play super great gankers for the most part. Kindred is one of my favorites, and while she's strong IN a gank, i cant gank a lane without the laner having hard CC or the other laner being pushed up real far. Fizz I've enjoyed playing this fucker more jungle then mid, and boy does he not love ganking pre six. His early clears leave him fairly low, and I just cant gank like a lee sin. Some junglers cant just sit in your lane, and need time to farm or do their own thing.

ReZisT Lust1 votes

buht wait i dont know how to freeze with 4 enemy minions on my side and thats impossibruh so ill just kep pushng*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*

Reaper Soraka1 votes

I think the enemy is more intimidated by my minion wave than my tower... especially if I have a very weak jungle champ.

Minion waves do more than a tower; they block skillshots and deal the same amount of damage. If their gank misses 1-2 skillshots, they have nothing to kill me with.

Theorchero1 votes

I mean the vast majority of the playerbase is in bronze, silver, and maybe gold.

Pushing the lane early and getting ganked is something they never learned from or they wouldn't be where they are.

PiVoRx1 votes

If your jungler isn't a powerful ganker then hes playing this game wrong. The only acceptable junglers in S7 are LeeSin Khazix Rengar Vi Zac Hecarim

MorgManBasher1 votes

RekSai Graves Ivern You missed a few. Also I feel a few others are pretty damn good and have seen pro play recently as well. EvelynnOlaf

Spârky1 votes

Me every time i play graves jungle. The enemy has a lee sin or an elise who strive at early game ganks while graves prefers to hard farm as long as possible before ganking. Because he gets his advantages by farming faster than most and being great in teamfights.

MorgManBasher1 votes

item 2055 item 2055 item 2055 item 2055

Dear jungler, buy these

If needed, also get item 1408 for more vision. Kill schuttles for vision as well. Invade, take his camps and find out where the enemy jungler is so your laners can avoid him.

If you aren't going to gank and apply pressure, you need to bring vision and intelligence to your team.

Aptest1 votes

PSA: if you're playing a squishie farming jungler with no CC, DONT TOWER DIVE THE LEONA AT LEVEL 3

Automated Riven1 votes

I shove and then roam. But you have corrected my thinking and I will stop this blasphemy and sit in lane and freeze under tower and never leave.

Edit. I will also stop trying to trade too tower for Dragon after my lane tp's bot. You must never shove lane ever again.

Profirix3 votes

There are obviously exceptions, and I mention Aurelion.

Automated Riven1 votes

Oh, I am sorry .. I didnt realize that public service anoucements were supposed to be evaluated and disregarded depending on whats up. besides. shyvanna (while she doesnt have great gank pressure) has amazing counter ganks. so she should be watching lanes anyhow just too see if she can counter an enemy gank.

Large Minivan1 votes

I main these kinda junglers:MasterYi (old)Warwick Shyvana it tilts me so hard when the laners say OMG NO JG GANKS REPORTED when they should know I cant gank until lv6

Profirix2 votes

I never said we CANT gank. I just said it is suboptimal vs. someone like Lee Sin or Jarvan or Vi. These champs offer almost guaranteed catch potential at level 3. Yi, Shyv, and Kindred do not.

Large Minivan1 votes

Exactly.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Also if the enemy is an aggressive ganker play passive and starve him.

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