Front line tanks

Commando Yi·Mar 14, 2017·14 votes·4,352 views

This is a 3 minute video on team compositions focusing on front line tanks. We go over an example of how a team with a front line tank fairs against a team that doesn't have one and the disadvantage the tankless team is faced with. There's an example at the end with what a fed carry looks like when they have a tank to work with, compared to what a fed carry can do when they have no one to tank for them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1PIJI05Rec

This is not to say that you can't win with a 5 man carry composition but just that the odds are not in your favor without an adequate front line.

17 Comments

RalanrMar 14, 20178 votes

I agree. Whenever I don't play a tank (rare but it happens) I find myself getting frustrated because no one on my team (usually because they lack a tank) can really engage effectively. So it becomes a standoff until someone does something dumb and gets caught out or both teams kinda splitpush.

Having a tank does increase your chances of victory because it gives you a safer presence in teamfights. Even if the enemy is trying to focus the squishy (which they will) the tank will make it very difficult for them to succeed.

Full carry comps can work, but they are more successful against other full carry comps imo.

BastionKrossMar 14, 20177 votes

I think most players are aware that having a tank in your team comp is a definite plus, but they also don't want to play one. It's a very similar situation to what a lot of players see as a con to being a support: no respect.

No one cares if you initiate like a god, CC down the fed backline, absorb ungodly amounts of damage and abilities, and enable your team to pull off an ace. All they care about is the announcer lady that screams about how Zed killed four people in a situation you did most of the work in creating and setting up for him.

That's why you see a lot of tanks with damage items trying to blow up squishies nowadays; getting kills is very rewarding for the vast majority of players compared to being a glorified punching bag that requires their team to follow up in order have an impact.

That's why juggernauts (and tanks being built like juggernauts) are so popular. They combine the resilience of a tank (for players that like being beefy) with the ability to ignore their team and carry themselves. A fed Darius can carry his team by dunking like a madman, but a fed full tank Malphite? Not so much.

And that's not to say there's not tanks who can do lots of damage and carry; I'm sure you know all about Sion. But they are the exception that proves the rule. Everyone wants a tank on their team, but no one wants to be the tank.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMar 14, 20171 votes

That's why you see a lot of tanks with damage items trying to blow up squishies nowadays; getting kills is very rewarding for the vast majority of players compared to being a glorified punching bag that requires their team to follow up in order have an impact.

Whut ???

No one cares if you initiate like a god, CC down the fed backline, absorb ungodly amounts of damage and abilities, and enable your team to pull off an ace. All they care about is the announcer lady that screams about how Zed killed four people in a situation you did most of the work in creating and setting up for him.

Its true below gold. But i thinks its mainly due to Tank gameplay (and charac design). But its depend of ur taste too.

And that's not to say there's not tanks who can do lots of damage and carry; I'm sure you know all about Sion.

Carry isnt about kill and damage only. And all tank deal alots damage. No one should underestimate a Maokai, a malphite... Or just look at lck last week (i don't recall which match) but Jhin was slay by a nautilus many time in bursty way.

WheatloafMar 15, 20172 votes

Meanwhile I'm perfectly satisfied on a tank sitting there like http://i.imgur.com/2qxVaRS.gif

Sun Wu RyuumokuMar 14, 20171 votes

Full carry comps can work, but they are more successful against other full carry comps imo.

Carry comp can easly work at your elo... because team fight are a mess. Nobody will peel for their carry... but all will rush on ennemy carry [slayer-jinx-unamused]

RalanrMar 14, 20174 votes

Anything works in bronze.

ErockandrollMar 14, 20173 votes

One of the bigger issues with Tanks is their place in the meta.

I've seen metas where the tank in the true sense is completely unable to lane against a higher damage Bruiser, and as a result, a Bruiser would wined up doing the tanks job better. Not to mention that Bruisers (particularly AA centric ones like Jax, Irealia, or Camile) are going to be far better split pushers. And then Jungle centric Tanks need to be able to clear, just as fast as their counter parts, or they get out leveled. Yet currently, a Diver with maybe solo lockup and moderate damage, (think Vi) would have better ganks than a Vanguard with lower damage, but a wider lockdown)

The other potential issue is that you can form comps, that relegate a portion of the tanks job to another. While a Bruiser or Juggernaut can have all the Tankyness, certain mages like Kennen or Liss can have a vanguards engage with much higher Damage, and sub out the durability with an hourglass. So it's possible to have all the parts of a tank in your comp, without having an actual tank.

HateDaddyMar 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

One of the bigger issues with Tanks is their place in the meta.

I've seen metas where the tank in the true sense is completely unable to lane against a higher damage Bruiser, and as a result, a Bruiser would wined up doing the tanks job better. Not to mention that Bruisers (particularly AA centric ones like Jax, Irealia, or Camile) are going to be far better split pushers. And then Jungle centric Tanks need to be able to clear, just as fast as their counter parts, or they get out leveled. Yet currently, a Diver with maybe solo lockup and moderate damage, (think Vi) would have better ganks than a Vanguard with lower damage, but a wider lockdown)

This is true but the relationship between bruisers and tanks has always been a violent one. The only time I've seen the two coexist is when bruisers are good top and tanks are good in the jungle and vice versa. Season two had a combination of bruisers and tanks being good in top lane but the game became more complex as more champions and items were added and really since then, bruisers and tanks have always kind of been in this struggle of power position in top lane. If ones good, the other typically isn't. That said though, bruisers have traditionally been the better laners/duelists while tanks have been better team fighters. As long as that general rule holds true, then their relationship is fine.

The other potential issue is that you can form comps, that relegate a portion of the tanks job to another. While a Bruiser or Juggernaut can have all the Tankyness, certain mages like Kennen or Liss can have a vanguards engage with much higher Damage, and sub out the durability with an hourglass. So it's possible to have all the parts of a tank in your comp, without having an actual tank.

There's truth to this but keep in mind tanks are always tanky, mages aren't. If you force lissandra to R or Kennen to R defensively plus their zhonyas, you've removed their "tankyness." They still do way more damage than tanks but now it's at the risk of exploding on contact. So there are ways to deal with this, not to mention tanks can generally duel most non-dps mages.

YoungFarmerMar 14, 20173 votes

As a midlaner this always rattles me when we don't have a tank on my team. I see so many people going squishy, cc less jungles and top laners. Like Graves Yasuo Quinn I see these champs snowball super hard but then become useless because they were to stubborn to grab a tank.

PennsMar 14, 20172 votes

I thought tanks die in 3 seconds and are useless Kappa

Taliyah RocksMar 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I thought tanks die in 3 seconds and are useless Kappa

I still cry at night when i remember about that 6 tank items, no boots, Mundo die under 1.5 seconds...

Sun Wu RyuumokuMar 14, 20171 votes

1,5 sec... any link or record pls ? Btw Mundo isn't a Tank.

MelledoneusMar 14, 20174 votes

3 seconds is longer than .5.

ToastersaotMar 15, 20172 votes

One of the reason I main the champion I do ( Vladimir ) is because if necessary I can fulfill both a Damage role or a Frontline role based on my teamcomp.

I'm my team's main source of magic damage? item 3285 item 3151 item 3157 item 3089 item 3135 item 3001 .

Am I supposed to be a strong front Liner who can soak damage? item 3157 item 3116 item 3065 item 3068 item 3143 item 3026 (I don't do this that often, but it works pretty well if you have some experience on Vladimir)

This way, I can concentrate on things like rotations, map awareness, and objectives a bit more.

OurLestradeMar 14, 20171 votes

It's when you have to be the front and back line at the same time on a support budget that you reach the pinnacle.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMar 14, 20171 votes

This is not to say that you can't win with a 5 man carry composition but just that the odds are not in your favor without an adequate front line.

Yeah... they didn't stand a chance in team fight with their comp

Yi is great for duel or skirmish (1v1,2v2,3v3
zed/Akali is an assassin... he's great in early-mid to snowball and caught out some carry out position.
Twitch is an adc (dps) and an assassin... he's best when the fight is already engaged and he can flank
Karma isn't great in this comp... would be better with a poke comp

they have a comp where they need to either end the game fast, splitpush or catch the ennemy... Its a good video... can help many on this board for improve their gameplay. But they think Tank are weak.

Crede777Mar 14, 20171 votes

This is one area where Riot's catering to the LCS hinders the overall game. In any team based game, having a "tank" in the traditional sense of the gaming term is necessary. That means having someone have high health, resistances, and crowd control.

Yet champions who fit this mold - Maokai, Poppy, Nautilus, Shen, etc. all result in boring top lanes during pro play. It usually is a stalemate farm off until either a dive occurs or a fight is forced in another lane.

Riot has said that it doesn't like having these wet noodle fights, they want each lane to feel like an interactive battle. So they nerf tank champions. This means that champions with poke like Quinn and Jayce become dominant top lane and force out the tanks who can't withstand early harass.

This might mean more exciting LCS matches, but for everyone else it means teams are unbalanced and are almost entirely built around positioning and damage output. This means as soon as someone makes a mistake, the other team capitalizes in a big way.