Urgot Is Now the Initiator ADC/Top Lane Ranged/Anti-Assassin?

Meep Man·Feb 12, 2016·6 votes·920 views

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/02/211-pbe-update.html

Zaun-Touched Bolt Augmenter (Passive) Damage reduction lowered 5% from 15% Now stacks up to 3 times. Duration increased to 3 seconds from 2.5 seconds.

Terror Capacitor (W) [lowered to 40/80/120/160/200 from 60/100/140/180/220] [Duration lowered to 5 seconds from 7 seconds]

Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser (R) [now also terrifies enemies for 1.5 seconds] "Urgot targets an enemy champion and channels his Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser for 1 second, swapping locations with his target afterward and terrifying nearby enemies for 1.5 seconds. His target is suppressed for the duration of the channel"

22 Comments

Rain NTFeb 12, 20163 votes

the problem is Urgot is that if he doesnt build damage, he does no damage but he is a mediocre tank but still good enough to be a semi-bruiser. If he builds damage he dies really easily but does mediocre damage (except maybe some niche poke comps and all he has to do is E andQ. And now that all his other abilities are weaker just for that 1.5 fear where the enemies has to be close to him to do (not to mention QSS still counters up which is an easy buy compare to previous season which makes him even weaker than before. Basically the moment the ADC gets a QSS, Urgot is weaker than before this change ^ cause now his stats are weaker and he cant pull off his ult anymore.

QuephaFeb 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

the problem is Urgot is that if he doesnt build damage, he does no damage but he is a mediocre tank.

Those are because his numbers are intentionally undertuned. Riot is doing this to try and experiment with ways to make Urgot feel like Urgot without being toxic. I think what they're going with here is trying to make Tank Urgot feel better with lower damage output because of how powerful this initiation tool is.

WestonbirtFeb 12, 20161 votes

This is why I now build him as a bruiser. It allows you to dive the backline better and have a real presence late game without fear of being 100-0.

http://oi65.tinypic.com/34f1oy1.jpg

Rain NTFeb 12, 20161 votes

I have to see you pull it off against higher elo for me to really take it in, but it does look good so far.

WestonbirtFeb 12, 20161 votes

I'm gonna have to wait a little bit before that, lol. I can only encourage higher elo players to try it in normals or with friends and see if they think it has merit.

It has definite weaknesses. Until you complete both Triforce and Gage you're not much tankier than standard Urgot. It also makes you work with his AA range, which is actually a lot easier than you'd think as long as you face short ranged opponents but still your poke power is below that of normal Urgot. Both items provide measly AD (25 and 25) but you take them for the utility, tankiness and synergy.

Normal Urgot has around 100 base attack damage. With those three items, he has a total of around 250 attack damage. Spellblade deals around 250 additional damage (2x(100+25)) (including to turrets). The thing is because of your Q you proc it constantly so in practise it gives you a solid 500 to 800 damage on AA + your Q and taking into account the armor shred on your E. It gets pretty good ; how much better than consensus Urgot - hard to say.

Rain NTFeb 12, 20161 votes

Dont worry at the rate youre going, you'll make it haha. I'm just saying this cause I main wukong, and it was MUCH easier but in the days cause players are way smarter when youre higher up

CatastropFeb 12, 20161 votes

What's with the Mikael's?

WestonbirtFeb 12, 20161 votes

That was more of a diss. I once took a support item because why the fuck not.

CatastropFeb 12, 20161 votes

Aw, I thought it some super secret strat, but that's just as good when I think about it.

WestonbirtFeb 12, 20161 votes

I mean, it does help in spamming Mana-stick's passive but considering it's only 2% per 5 seconds and the passive costs 3% per spell, it's really negligible. It's the kind of thing people do when they don't really know what else to do.

LoL Ergo UrgotFeb 12, 20162 votes

Urgot's laning potential will be down.

Lovely PantsFeb 12, 20162 votes

Last I heard (Which was ages ago) Riot sentiment was that Urgot would be best envisioned as a mobile weapons platform. Seems like these potential changes fly completely in the face of that.

I have no issues with Urgot being completely remade as a tanky, disruptive pseudo-duelist, mind, cause that was always my favorite way of playing him back in the heyday of my time with the champion. (Also more thematically appropriate with his lore, for what little that's worth). Course, he's even more of a complete abomination of design direction with these changes unless they gut out the majority of his range and add a little more complimentary purpose to his kit somewhere.

Guess Riot has absolutely nothing to lose with modifying the consistently least popular champion in the game however the hell they want to try, though.

Meep ManFeb 12, 20161 votes

I think their end plan is still mobile weapons platform, but they are just tiding him over until then and trying to make due for now with his current kit.

Lovely PantsFeb 12, 20161 votes

Probably the case. I still think my initial reaction to that idea that such a dream for Urgot is fairly unfeasible is correct, or at least in a way that satisfies players who enjoyed that fantasy through Urgot for any length of time. From a damage-focused perspective, so many champions live that idea better. Not much room for distinction there.

That said, I would also totally be cool with making him a utility-focused weapons platform, since Support is my main role these days. Might not even have to change his current kit very much outside of the obvious sacrifice of damage to strengthen the utility he currently offers.

Hell, I don't care. I'm just always on the lookout for him to become something. Anything.

WestonbirtFeb 12, 20162 votes

I personally would think he'd be more unique as a disruptor. His R is the best and most interesting part of his kit ; we already have a weapons platform with Corki who has more effective poke and mixed damage.

Lovely PantsFeb 12, 20161 votes

Mostly what I think as well. Riot's discussion in the past has always indicated that they want his ultimate moved to a design space for a different champion, though. Most Urgot players I think would identify his Q+E poke as the core attraction of the champion, and Riot's words on the subject have more or less reflected this in the past.

Don't entirely disagree myself, but I was never actually as attached to the poking potential (which I think is not only done better by most siege oriented mages at this point, but also ridiculously frustrating to emphasize on most AD casters without dramatically shifting the rules the play by). I always liked the vicious single-targeted nature of Urgot's kit and the "you can't escape from this" aspect of his E+Q+W lockon combo. I feel like his kit would work with very little need for alteration if you made him almost entirely melee or more of a situationally ranged champion instead.

Still, I don't think that's what most players want to see the champion become.

WestonbirtFeb 12, 20161 votes

I think we very much think alike. A proposal I actually had would be to make him a melee champion that would hit things with his blade, but then again that doesn't solve his other weaknesses.

A lot of people want his R changed because they want this square peg to fit into the round hole of the ADC meta. The truth is, Urgot is not nor has he ever been a real ADC. Riot tried to create an anti-carry with him, so they loaded him with contradictory functions and abilities. He has long range poke like a mage but he deals physical, he needs to build tanky but he has a high scaling spamable spell, armor shredding and damage reductions with a conditional slow, no CC but a shield to tank.

The result is admittedly unique but doesn't ever fit in a meta because there's nothing he's actually good at. He has a very narrowly defined goal, which is actually better hit by other champions. This also means he can't be buffed much because his all around strengths mean he has no counterplay beyond playing around his lack of mobility and skillshot reliance.

Personally I don't want him to become "another marksman". I would rather he become a highly disruptive zoning bruiser, something unique rather than having spent all these years in meta limbo just to be forcefully cut into an ADC-shaped peg and spend his time in the sewer that is botlane with all the other ass****s.

Lovely PantsFeb 12, 20161 votes

In thought experiments in the past, I've kind of liked the idea of going more halvsies on the ranged aspect of him. Something like this, for example.

Auto-attack range now melee. Q- Range reduced to something like his current auto-attack range. E- Either keep the grenade or adjust it to a different kind of skillshot projectile as necessary. Causes Acid Hunters to lock-on with extended range.

Drastically reduces his lane bullying potential that keeps him in the gutter; lets him be balanced more around his lock-on window. Forces him to get into a more dangerous range to have any sort of trading ability and keeps his dueling power mana gated.

Obviously would need a lot more tinkering, but I'm just thinking there's some healthier ways to retain most of his current core elements than people think if you're willing to give up his identity as a constant marksman.

WestonbirtFeb 13, 20161 votes

I personally thought the best way to reduce his oppressive laning phase would be to make his range scale with one of his ability (preferably E, since Urgot maxes Q first almost all the time). One option would also be the Cassiopeia route where landing your E should be essential ; or even changing the way the lock on works so that it becomes an ability he uses to punish people rather than just all the time to everyone.

stealthfox94Feb 12, 20161 votes

That Ezreal nerf wtf...........

ZT XperimentorFeb 13, 20161 votes

I'd like to know how riot expects him to be useful now with his passive nerfed so hard. Assassins will kill him long before he can hit them 3 times; and other carries will outpoke him now thanks to rapidfirecannon.

BurnTheSteak87Feb 13, 20161 votes

As I wrote on my thread, these changes are unnecessary and not needed. Its passive and W are essential (as they used to be) to fix its lack of mobility and the Aoe fear on the R is total nonsense.

We just need a few changes, QoL and something allowing a bit of mobility. Window of opportunity tricks or repositioning tools ala Ryze and Jinx . Nothing more nothing less.