I haven't heard anything from you guys about him for a long while. Is he still in the back of your minds to re-update?
"I miss my kind..."
I miss my Scorpion. :(
TRIBUTE TO THE SCORPION!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2whRPKtxmc&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ump1PHjjzoQ&t=15s
These videos are indeed Juggernaut Skarner... I wish we would have had this replay feature back before jugger-skarner...
Shahamut2 votesDang... these things fall on the boards list so fast... How does RIOT see any of these :P
Funkin Dunkin2 voteshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMAcG2FtPvs&t=496s
He is not forgotten!
Shahamut2 votessomeone else who plays top lane skarner!? <3<3<3<3<3
I wish I knew how to make a montage like that. I would make one.
Its not that Skarner doesn't work/can't function, I just don't care for the kits passive and his E being his bread and butter skill... feels wrong to me.
Funkin Dunkin3 votesHis prime was definitely prior to him getting nerfed into an E only player. He had a great kit when everything was on his Q
Shahamut1 votesagreed!
Shahamut2 votesThis was the major complaint by Skarner players. When they first proposed the juggernaut changes, I predicted that his Passive would be overtuned and unbalanceable. It would be OP on release, (it was) get nerfed to being useless (it did, its barely even relevant) and now E max is the best way to play him... so much so that doing Q or W first actually gimps you.
Q is quite literally a glorified Sheen proc. :(
Funkin Dunkin1 votesWhen in jungle maybe but maxing Q is still first in lane.
Shahamut1 votesI disagree man, bigger slow, means easier catch, bigger on hit proc is more burst/initial damage. Lower cooldown means you will likely be able to use it more than once in a prolonged fight, meaning more cc and burst.I recommend you try it. It makes lane better. One point in Q is enough for sheen procs, the cooldown doesnt go down with rank either. W second for surviving and chasing.
Q is in dead last for damage/utility. :( :( :( :( it makes me sad...
Funkin Dunkin1 votesYou forget though this is in lane. E will have the passive cooldown by hitting the other minions and champions that got hit by E. Maxed Q when fighting champions gets passive 1s reduction for every auto which means you're basically hitting them 1 Q per every 1.5 seconds. That is far greater DPS than E alone. Additionally you'll be using sheen so Q + Sheen is the way to go. But remember, this is in lane.
Shahamut1 votesAfter running the numbers, here is what I came up with:
Q is going to be better in Jungle for clears. As long as you can hit 2 empowered Q's on the same target, the damage will favor Q in trades.
I don't believe the damage difference is going to be big enough, however, to trade off being in lane, since trades are typically shorter, and you lose out on the extra utility of your E slow and cdr (even though its only 2 seconds, with the procs, you can easily have it up 2 times in an all in). I will definitely give it a shot, but Im pretty sure E will be better for lane still :/
ZadloBoze2010PL2 votesI play skarner toplane, reached D3 or D4 EUW something like that
Shahamut1 votesnice dude!
ZadloBoze2010PL1 votesBut i don't recommend this champ even in the jungle xd If you have any questions you can ask me, because i have a lot of experience.
Shahamut1 votesthanks for the offer. I think Im good on questions about the champion, I think more relevant to the topic, though, would be your answer to this question:
But i don't recommend this champ even in the jungle xd
Why?
ZadloBoze2010PL2 votesShahamut1 votesgood stuff.
ZadloBoze2010PL1 votesOf course before the rework he had similar issues, but at least he was stronger and it was possible to reach master tier EUW by playing only skarner.
Predatorator1 votesabout the bugged stun on E, do you mean that sometimes skarner still normal aa the marked target before stunning him? because sometimes i mark the target with E, but the following attack doesn't stun, while the attack after that does.
Predatorator1 votesGlad im not the only one then, so when i'll have some time, i'll post about it in the bug section.
At a first glance, i think it has something to do with the command queue
ZadloBoze2010PL1 votesThis bug was reported several times, but riot really don't care about this champ and otp skar players ;/
OceanicEyes1 votesIf I recall correctly, they had said he's more of a vanguard than a juggernaut, and wanted to steer him more in that direction. Couldn’t find where I originally saw that, but you can see here they updated Skarner's position in the subclass list.
https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list
Shahamut3 votesPersonally, I have always felt that Skarner is a skirmisher, like Jax or Fiora- Having good 1v1 and pick potential.
I don't see how he functions much in teamfights as a vanguard... he isn't a diver, he isn't an initiator, as a tank, hes better off being called a warden, because his current kit is just a single ult and then a bunch of chain stuns.
Prior to the juggernaut changes, Skarner was a duelist with lots of chasing power.
SpecterVonBaren3 votesThe sticky inescapable bug is now just a crystal slave, and I hate it.
Shahamut2 voteskeep the upvotes and comments coming, maybe RIOT will see it and reply! :)
SpecterVonBaren3 votesHave you read my threads on this issue before? Maybe you'll agree with my thoughts.
Before his rework, I fancied myself a regular player of Skarner, I loved being a sticky, dangerous bug of fear that caught people out of position and dragged them away to their doom, I also felt very sure of myself playing him and did very well most of the time. Ever since his rework though, I played him a few times and have now completely dropped him from my roster of played champs because he’s no longer good at what I played him for and the kit he has now is incredibly boring.
Riot stated with the Juggernaut rework that they “wanted Skarner to have something truly unique to him” when he’s unable to use his ultimate to kidnap someone. Their solution was to give him the six crystals that are placed on the map when he’s on a team, they said that “with these changes, Skarner becomes a neutral objective control king, and super useful for teams looking to overcome their enemies with buff and map control.
This is not what happened. While Skarner received a huge boost in popularity and was seen as being OP, no one picked him or thought he was OP because of his ability to control objectives, it was because he was a tanky unkillable monster that you couldn’t keep from barreling through your team and killing everyone in sight.
I’ve said before in many threads but the Skarner rework goes against an oft quoted design philosophy of Riot which is that they do not like ball of stats champions and regret the ones that are in the game that came about from earlier years. Skarner is currently nothing but a ball of stats champion who’s passive is to give him more stats when fighting in specific areas. And this was even something that is the exact opposite of what they were trying to achieve. They said that they felt Skarner, as he was before the rework, was just a generic bruiser that never had a real reason to pick him over someone else but that’s what he’s been turned into, ever since his nerfs I barely ever see Skarner picked at all in ranked or normals because, since his stats no longer make him OP there’s no reason to pick him.
Further, the goal of the rework, to make him a neutral objective controller is impossible to do without completely changing his kit, because his kit is not designed for controlling objectives, nothing in his kit rewards him for, or encourages him to fight for objectives aside from getting a stat boost from his crystals. His Q is a short range spammable damage ability, the kind of thing someone who gets up in an enemy’s face would use to give out long term dps, his w is a speed boost for catching people that also has a shield to help him survive being in the middle of an enemy team or taking the damage from someone trying to kite him, his E is meant to allow him or a teammate to close the gap and pounce on someone and his ult is a kidnapping tool. None of these abilities are things that a neutral objective controller would want in their kit.
Know who DOES have a kit for objective control? Nunu. Nunu has two abilities for controlling things in the jungle, he has his consume for dealing large true damage to monsters to secure them for himself or his team and he has his ult which is great in the jungle and river because of the confined aspect of those places and that fact that he can catch people by surprise with his ult by hiding behind a corner or in a bush to channel for a lot of damage before the enemy realizes it or when they have no choice but to fight in it.
But do you know what Skarner’s kit IS good for? What he is SUPPOSED to do? Being a champion that catches someone and then sticks to them and doesn’t let up until they’re destroyed by himself or his team. His previous kit was perfect for this kind of gameplay, with the crystal venom passive, w to move in quick, E to slow someone down, and then Q Q Q to stun them and finish them off or Ult and drag them away into your team.
Further, that kit was satisfying. It was satisfying and felt rewarding to get that third hit in just before the person got to their turret so that they got stunned long enough for you and your ally to finish them off. There was a direct goal for you to focus on someone in a fight so that you could stun them either to peel for a teammate or to single out a priority target.
Does anyone actually feel any kind of satisfaction from taking a crystal and fighting in it? Where is the decision making in fighting over the crystals? No one ever thinks, “Oh no, if we fight here Skarner will be in his crystals, maybe we should try to fight somewhere else.” Because outside of the pro scene, and even in it, fights aren’t something that usually happens because of some kind of war game where you try to take certain objectives over others. Fights happen because of people unexpectedly running into each other, or because you need to either gain or prevent the gaining of a neutral objective. If the enemy team is trying to take Baron, them having Skarner on their team doesn’t factor into whether you fight for it or not, you’ll react to it the same way you would if they didn’t have Skarner on their team.
The crystals also don’t actually change anything about whether you can take the enemy or not. Whether Skarner gets a boost from his passive is determined on which team holds the stronger position in the game when a fight occurs near them. If Skarner is fed then the enemy team will avoid his crystals, if he’s behind then the enemy will take it from him without him being able to fight for it, and if the teams are even then it gives him a slight boost to his stats but it only effects him and so his team and the enemy team will just fight like the crystal wasn’t there regardless of who has control of it because whoever wins the fight is determined by positioning, split second decisions, someone being caught out, or people being grouped up too much for a wombo combo, not because Skarner had his crystal captured.
The entire problem with the crystals is that they offer no strategic use or planning. The mana regen component only matters when Skarner is farming the jungle, the attack speed component only matters if Skarner is a damage threat on the enemy team which is decided by whether or not he’s ahead or not, and the movespeed bonus mostly matters when farming for movement through the jungle and when its used for teamfights it’s usefulness is again decided by how well or poorly Skarner is already doing. And it's not as if you can use it for counterjungling or catching someone by surprised because as soon as you take one everyone on both team knows it because the icon on their minimap changed color.
tl;dr
I feel I’m starting to ramble a bit so I’ll try to sum up and get to the point. Skarner’s rework is terrible. I love Repertoire for what he did on the forums a couple months back but the rework he created and the intention behind it is incredibly half-assed in its attempts to change Skarner’s niche. All it’s done is made Skarner like he was with his first rework where he’s functional, but unsatisfying to use and offers nothing interesting to his team aside from his ult. His ganks are also back to how they were then with whether the gank succeeds or not depending on whether he lands he E or whether his ally laner has enough CC to lock the enemy down for him to smack around. Further, all his current passive did was take away a lot of his base stats to give him more stats when within the area of his crystals and them being a factor for neutral objective control at all is because of where they’re placed, place them in front of turrets or in the middle of a lane and you immediately change what his supposed niche is focused around. It is a terribly artificial way to give someone a niche and it doesn’t even work.
Riot is going to someday come back and rework Skarner yet again, because eventually they’ll realize all these issues with the kit he has now and I can only hope that when they do they turn him back into the sticky inescapable scorpion again but if not then I hope they at least completely change his abilities so he can actually BE a neutral objective controller instead of a generic ball of stats.
I have argued many times and made my feelings on this issue heard many times before this on how terrible the Skarner rework was. Having learned that they were going to, yet again, rework him because they realized it was a failure was offset by the fact that Repertoir has said that they like how well he's doing now that Dragon's are valuable and that they only intend for small changes.
This means that they still do not understand what the issue is with this rework and I am going to explain it again but with an example.
Let us say that Riot decides they want to make a point blank burst mage that's good against divers. Sounds like a silly choice yes?
But here's how they intend to do it, they make it so that all of his abilities do less damage the further they are from him, to such an extent that hitting with the very tip of your Q does less damage than his auto attacks. So suddenly Xerath's winrate against divers and melee champs is better than his winrate against ranged champs, people build him tanky ap with things like RoA and the new Hextech items, Riot deems it a success because now Xerath is doing what they wanted, he is good at super close range and bad at long range.
Now you tell me the obvious, this is completely ridiculous, Xerath is supposed to be a siege champ that has massive range, you haven't even changed his kit at all Specter, it's just made to be worse at range because of numbers. And this is exactly what's wrong with Skarner. His kit is not designed for neutral objective control, making it so his stats are terrible everywhere but around neutral objectives does not make him a good neutral objective controller, it makes him only useful around those objectives.
None of his skills are designed with the idea of controlling objectives and the rework was one of the shoddiest I've ever seen, it tried to make huge changes to how people play him with the least amount of effort possible by making his numbers better when near crystals and bad when not.
Predatorator1 votes^^ this.
Shahamut1 votesThis sums up a lot of the things I have been saying since its introduction. So, yes, I agree with you. :)
OceanicEyes1 votesYou see, that's what I love about Skarner, is that depending on build, he can function pretty well in several different ways. I'm a fan of the full tank Skarner, but love how he can function as a strong duelist on the same lines as Jax. I never tried it, but I remember him being played AP mid a few times way back when I started playing. Just love how he's a very flexible champ.
Shahamut2 votesSkarner was a fun and flexible champ, who filled a niche for me as a sticky duelist. A speed demon you had a hard time getting away from... Not anymore :(
Predatorator1 votesMeddler said that they got nothing in mind for him right now: "he's strong, but not that much to nerf him."
i can't hide the fact that i feel disappointed
Shahamut1 voteslol, Im not looking for a nerf, I want to get rid of his dumb passive! :P
Predatorator1 voteseveryone wants to. i'm still for them to revert the skarner jugg update, his kit right now it's hard to work on.
Shahamut1 votesindeed, and it just doesnt feel right to use...
Only change I like is the shield scaling off of health... thats it..
Predatorator1 votesthe E mechanic is also good, but to do so now it's overloaded, and the Q now is just a sheen/bc proc.
his previous kit was more entertaining and healthier. if it needed anything, it would be just number tuning, and voi là: still the sticky duelist everyone wanted him to be.
Funkin Dunkin1 votesTo nerf him? See this is how I know Meddler doesn't know what he's talking about. When he says shit like that. Skarner needs a real passive and needs to get off E only damage.
Shahamut1 votesThanks everyone for keeping this conversation going! Hopefully we can hear from a RIOTer soon! :)
Shahamut1 votesIf I get the chance, I may ask about Skarner in the next gameplay thoughts thread this evening... I just want to know what RIOT is thinking...