Dear god Riot don't ever buff this item back to a first build rush item again. There is no reason why late game scaling champions with intended weak lanes(cough Kog'Maw, Twitch, Vayne, etc..) should have such strong early-mid games as long as they have an ardent censer slave.
LadyRenly28 voteslets say we gut ardent, and the people who use it:whats next? heavy engage supports take over, and emphasis goes back on winning bot lane at level 2.
We need to get to the root of the problem here, which are the adsc.
Hügö18 votesHow dare you to blame the balanced marksmen.
Tbh they will find the next thing they can blame instead of fixing marksmen.
StoryDuck2 votesIndeed, it's the ADCs that are the problem. Also, I would point out that the health on hit has been removed for awhile now. It won't stop any of the problems of intense peeling/shielding let alone the insane damage ADCs do with 1.5 to 2 items.
Noblewind2 votesTo be fair even in this case, those engage supports don't help keep the ADCs alive as well as current enchanters do. You'll (hopefully) have more killable ADCs in the mid game if ardent censor becomes a less purchased item starting this patch.
PS I agree with you though, they are still part of the problem that also needs to be changed to fully resolve this
JJI7441 votesIf you think its hard to kill a Kog'Maw with a Janna next to him, just wait until your have to deal with Alistar every other game. Aside from the effectively unavoidable (for a melee) CC, your going to see Face of the Mountain+Locket more than doubling Kog's HP instantly.
As annoying as enchanters are, with the possible exception of Rakan, they are generally quickly killed if caught. If you catch Alistar or Braum out... well congrats, have fun burning through a few thousand HP with somewhere between 30 and 75% damage reduction.
Noblewind1 votesI agree it doesn't solve the problem, but I do believe it's preferable. Tanks like Alistar and Braum are a lot less annoying to play against than Lulu/Janna/Sona.
They offer key moments of play that both teams can play around a lot better than a 100mph Sona healing her ADC and teammates for 1/4 health bars every few seconds. In the current meta, you almost have to prioritize killing the support first, another reason why ADCs have so much safety atm. That's not the case for tanks.
They also offer a lot less in terms of safety while laning. Having a Tank supp also opens the field for non-tank options in top/jg
KlydeFrog2 votesheavy engage still beats ardent so whats ur point. also zekes plus knights vow on say leo or alistair still beats ur ardent so whats ur point
OyddAWqJ5r1 votesPretty sure people are still gonna rush Ardent. It's gimped as hell but it's still cost effective as hell too. Redemption is probably gonna be taking the spotlight again though.
TwitchInMyPants1 voteslets say we gut ardent, and the people who use it:whats next? heavy engage supports take over, and emphasis goes back on winning bot lane at level 2.
We need to get to the root of the problem here, which are the adsc.
There's no reason to gut the Ardent users since Athenes, Locket, Mikaels, and Redemption exist, they can be balanced like normal champions again
Metas rotate but there's no opportunity to do that when hypercarries hit their 2 item powerspike at 1 big item, there's no point to using lethality if its outscaled by shiv/runaans/guinsoo on Trist/Kog/Twitch/Varus, ardent was definitely a unique problem that we had and now any actual adc balance can be addressed since there isn't an artificial speed up of the power curve of adcs
RedPannda17 votesOh you poor poor deluded soul.
[sg-miss-fortune]
Thefrostyviking16 votesAs long as Rapid fire and static arent nerfed then marksmen like trist and Vayne will continue to be an issue-
Trist was literally nearly unplayed months until the static buffs at which point some started playing her but once static and RFC got tweaked together she instantly shot through the roof.
Vayne was also buffed for some incomprehensible reason.
Want to fix marksmen? Ardent is a good step but it's not the end of it.
Twitch needs to have his Q-R combo nerfed, Vayne needs be gutted in her current condition, either you got massive crits or you can kill tanks, not both.
Except she also has mobility and stealth-----that doesn't really make things better.
Then as mentioned, static nerfs so that marksmen like Cait and Trist stop being so strong, it's honestly a wonder that it hasn't happened already.
Back when Cait lost hurricane synergy for her passive and got even stronger with static builds people already called for nerfs to the item, as many already did after trist got broken with it.
Instead Riot chose to gut cait and ignore the items and trist, see where that has landed us x)
But at the same time i believe that marksmen like kog and Varus are necessary for the current game, at least until tanks are nerfed, since only kog, varus and Vayne are any good at killing the tanks we got these days.
KlydeFrog1 votesu poor deluded sole u have no idea what the word broken means .....let me give u broken. Kass w, lets go further with that. He will proc ludens, lichbane, static and rapid fire all at once. only a very few select champions who can do that
dlayed4 votesYou know that's not actually that uncommon, irelia, ekko, vayne, nasus, blitzcrank, darius ezreal, gragas, gangplank, illaoi, jax, leona, master yi, nidalee, morde, wukong, vi. Your point is literally invalid, and why would kass buy rfc and static.
KlydeFrog1 votesez cant so not sure what ur trying to say....... ludens echo as well as triforce and is a aa enhancer..... becuase of the damage they both bring on hit ........ why wouldnt u
dlayed2 votesEz q procs on hit and spell effects, and building two ap items and two crit items is not the best build, especially since kass's w and lichbane bot scale with ap while shiv scale with crit and modifiers like infinity edge
Baka Red2 votesIf Wiki and myself are correct, Ezreal's Q procs only on-hit, not spell effects like you believe. Usually Wiki is error free about Champion abilities, even though there are some errors elsewhere. I on the other hand am always right. ;)
dlayed1 votesYou may be right on ezreal, but that's not the point I'm trying to make
Thefrostyviking1 votesA champions capability in proccing effects with a single ability doesn't mean a lot if that means gimping their damage completely for it, for contrary to what you are saying Kassa does indeed need high AP for his Q and E to work, as well as lichbane,
His ulti needs a mix of mana and AP as far as i remember.
He simply can't afford to stack all those items thus it's a non issue that he potentially can proc all those things with his W.
KlydeFrog1 votes...sad u dont get what the extra damage u get off both of those 2 items
Thefrostyviking1 votesStatic+rapidfire, by themselves, give 60-160 based on lvl.
With a 60% chance to crit.
Am i supposed to be impressed? Compared to the AP you lose for building those two items that otherwise would have powered his abilities, his lichbane, luden and thunderlord, i can with great certainty say that it's nowhere near worth it.
You´ll be short of mana, you´ll have no damage outside of when you have full charges on luden and static and to top things of you´ll be squishy as hell.
Go back to silver you :/
KlydeFrog1 votesdont knock it until u try it
Thefrostyviking1 votesI can count ._. I don't need to try it to know what kind of damage deals,what durability it has and how sustainable it is and what a failure it undoubtedly is.
All good builds can be explained with math or logic, that kassa build can't be done with either.
KlydeFrog1 votesthe flat amount that both items proc does a decent amount
Thefrostyviking1 votes,,,,,You do know that you only get damage from one of the items right? Right?
When you build static+RFC in their current state you will get the damage from the static passive along with the recharge a bit quicker passive from RFC.
You do not, i repeat you do not, get the damage passive from both items.
Only from static, and if it doesn't crit the damage is actually quite bad by the time you get it.
KlydeFrog1 votesumm you realize you get damage from both right? also what it does it also makes ur w usuable on turrets
Thefrostyviking1 votesThis is a direct copypaste from the info wiki.
"Energized attacks will not trigger all three energizing items — Kircheis Shard, Rapid Firecannon and Statikk Shiv in the same way; the highest instance of damage will apply to the primary target, and Statikk Shiv will chain to nearby enemies even if attacking a structure, due to Rapid Firecannon allowing it to trigger on structures. Kircheis Shard will not apply any damage, due to having the lowest damage of all three items."
Pay particular attention to the sentence "the highest instance of damage will apply to the primary target, and Statikk Shiv will chain to nearby enemies even if attacking a structure"
What this means is that you can only have 1 energize item going at the time for damage, the reason however people like to stack static and rapidfire is that rapidfire cannon causes you to gain bonus AA range as well as charge energy faster.
And as you mentioned, proccing energized attacks on towers, but on champs you do not get any bonus damage for having both items at once, none at all.
Winterwings12 votesYou do realize that this does nothing to put a stop to the actual issue that is "ADC's own your Game's outcome"... ? Right?
Nerfing Censer only brings enchanters down a peg but, newsflash, it's not Censer that's making ADC so overbearing atm... It's the cheaper-than-usual crit itemization ( 
) that also happens to synergize super well with Warlords that let's Marksmen do the infamous "Burst-Per-Second" nonsense while lifestealing through any retaliation damage...
Maszii2 votes[{quoted}](name=Azure Northwing,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X8EkBm5U,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-10-24T15:57:42.854+0000)
You do realize that this does nothing to put a stop to the actual issue that is "ADC's own your Game's outcome"... ? Right?
Nerfing Censer only brings enchanters down a peg but, newsflash, it's not Censer that's making ADC so overbearing atm... It's the cheaper-than-usual crit itemization (
Censer is making them so strong because they wont die. You could atleast burst them down before.
Profirix5 votesArdent needed to be nerfed before worlds, but this is getting ridiculous. It's just going to go back to another unused item in the support item pool.
waiting for WoW6 votes[{quoted}](name=Tongue in Cheek,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X8EkBm5U,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-10-24T17:03:43.800+0000)
Ardent needed to be nerfed before worlds, but this is getting ridiculous. It's just going to go back to another unused item in the support item pool.
It's still a great item on 7.21. It's just not first item rush worthy on every enchanter anymore.
The Yetii Rider3 votesIt's still a great item on 7.21. It's just not first item rush worthy on every enchanter anymore.
So what item are enchanters supposed to rush now? None of them are good as a first buy anymore.
Metleon3 votes[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X8EkBm5U,comment-id=000700000001,timestamp=2017-10-24T18:20:53.116+0000)
So what item are enchanters supposed to rush now? None of them are good as a first buy anymore.
The Yetii Rider3 votes
- Actually buy sight stone before a major item.
- Build up your coin.
- Get redemption first.
Why would you buy Redemption first? It gives terrible stats, the active is weak and there's no Ability Power or anything else that really helps you immediately.
notice me Sin pi2 votesWith 
gutted, rito can actually buff enchanter supports' kits to compensate. It will definitely take a long time to happen, but it still should happen eventually.
The Yetii Rider2 votes[{quoted}](name=notice me Sin pi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X8EkBm5U,comment-id=0007000000010001,timestamp=2017-10-24T20:43:03.238+0000)
With
And until then, supports do what? Sit on their ass and wait until four items to be useful? Welcome back, autofill.
notice me Sin pi4 votesuntil then enchanters will be forgotten and 
will dominate the meta.
It will take a while for the LoL community to start complaining about tank supports being allowed to determine win/loss at 3min into the game at lv2. And then enchanter supports' kits will likely be buffed 1 or 2 patchs after season 8 LoL World Championship happens.
Glory ln Death1 votesMeanwhile, 
laughs in the background.
WDG Devour5 votesI wonder what people are going to cry and complain about next.. lol
Painted Celt4 votesI don't like items/champions simply being dumpstered. If the nerfed becomes a noob-trap, then it should get buffed until it's in a reasonable spot. It can stay weak for a while so that people can mentally/emotionally recover from it being so prominent in the meta, but it needs to eventually be actually balanced. Having said that, I don't know that it is a noob-trap yet, so I am fine with waiting and seeing how things turn out. The nerf is huge though.
A lot of people say shouldn't exist because it doesn't require skill to use. Sure, doesn't take a lot of skill to use well, but neither do most other items. It's not like requires some sort of mechanically difficult mini-game to get its 50% crit damage bonus, or 
requires player skill to resist magic damage... Most items are not held behind a skill floor to use effectively. If the issue is that certain enchanters lack skill expression in their kits in general, then that is a separate issue in my opinion. I do agree, however, that something being overpowered does tend to remove skill in using it, so may have removed the necessity for skill expression from enchanters while it was too strong - but I'd rather see it continually nerfed until balanced rather than being deleted.
xJLx MCHammer2 votes[{quoted}](name=Painted Celt,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X8EkBm5U,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-10-24T21:14:36.311+0000)
I don't like items/champions simply being dumpstered. If the nerfed
A lot of people say
With the current Ardent, if Ardent passive is applied to the entire team from a support like Janna, the items gold efficient can go as high as 600%+. There was a post that already did the math but even if it was applied to one person it can be as much as 150% gold effiency.
Currently the item is just still good. It’s definitely not as broken as Wolrds patch but it’s still good.
Most people aren’t complaint about ardent being a no skill item. People complain regarding the design. It is a support item that basically give stats to one champions but it benefits the ADC role so much more than any other role/class. People rather have items that can benefit champions almost equally. People hated playing supports because of the way the class had to be a slave to everyone else. Riot slowly started give them more gold, adding limitation to ward so that others can’t rely on a support ward bot..
Now riot started turning around and ones again forced the Support to run around just applying one shield to the ADC as the ADC class melts things. Even the casters like Phreak have come and said, the item is basically a 7th slot for an ADC.
Riot refuses to look at the item and admit that. But the entire wolrds tournament shows the design issue of the item
MysterQ1 votesSays that even though everyone complained about the generalist item Redemption.
People just want supports to stay wardbots.
Hexs Fortune2 votesPeople will still find something to complain about
Sukishoo2 votesThey'll just find the next rush. Before it was the Redemption/Locket combos, now it's the Ardent.. so something else will show up.
Winterwings1 votesOn Enchanters?... Here let me help you...
-
PePsiLemoNN2 votesIt will take a while for soloQ to figure it out tho
sky blower1 votesI believe this nerf is to the point and will bring more diversity to the bot lane. Can't understand so many hate toward ADC tho.
Nyaxxy1 votesIt was nerfed into paste. Only viable on champs that can proc it on multiple people at once, and even then it is only worthwhile later in the game. Perhaps will be a 3rd item buy now, rather than first or second.
