It feels like 90% of games this season are over by 10-15 minutes

Yenn·Jun 6, 2018·60 votes·15,341 views

Due to one lane getting stomped so badly that the rest of the team can't even attempt to help, because the player is both playing badly and the champion in that lane is so fed that it takes the entire team to kill it.

This is not fun. If we're going to continue with this 'worst player decides the game' thing that's been going on since last season, more steps need to be taken to ensure consistent skill level across teams, and further punish the feast or famine players who are thriving in this meta.

57 Comments

Giga BaboonJun 6, 201824 votes

Rift herald can take 2 - 3 towers if you get it early and kill a lane.

Meddler: herp derp how we stop da snowballz?

BoretoJun 6, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Giga Baboon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X1na4fnc,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-06-06T06:15:24.500+0000)

Rift herald can take 2 - 3 towers if you get it early and kill a lane.

Meddler: herp derp how we stop da snowballz?

Ikr i got rift herald around 15 mins we got 2 kills on mid and around 17 min we already got their inhib and basically we won the game wp meddler.

420 gramsJun 6, 201818 votes

I think a big part of it is overall morale of players. People start losing, they know that means the enemy is going to start to snowball, so they give up right there.

TheSingularityJun 6, 201816 votes

Or they see who's fed and know just how painful it will be to win. To a point where even IF, and a big IF there, they win... it won't be worth the time or the effort to do so as they'll derive no fun or satisfaction from the experience. EG you play blind pick and see the enemy team is Irelia Graves Zoe Kaisa Morgana . The desire to even try to win is already gone because you, a team consisting of people on the champs they like is vsing the more brokenly overpowered champions possible in each position. I bring this up, as I vsed this team comp recently, and my entire team but me (all randoms bases on the fact that they didn't share match histories) left, I assume so I would remake and they could move on. Added one of them after and he/she said they "cbf vsng that" And honestly, I felt the same only I didn't want to get leaver penalties. If they didn't exist I would've left in a heartbeat.

Much easier to move onto another game that will possibly be more enjoyable, and not have champs like those in them

LegitBusinessmanJun 6, 20183 votes

It sucks because smart players could staunch the bleeding and stall out long enough and play off poor decisions of the team that snowballed. That's possible so much less now. Objectives just get blown over and for some reason towers lost hp which is the direct opposite of what anyone wanted because games ARE too snowballed.

If the other team was way ahead it was more of a 'Long road ahead of us let's smoke some meth and show em whats up' now it's just 'There's no point no matter how much meth we smoke its insurmountable.'

ArsinikJun 6, 20187 votes

They just need to take surrender out of ranked and force people to play the whole match to realize that a game is still winnable from behind.

NyarlathοtepJun 6, 20188 votes

LOL there are some games where you wont win. No matter how much you try. Unless you are premade and you have made a plan ofc. But when you are with strangers thats impossible.

ZenaJun 6, 20183 votes

I do believe every game is winnable. 1 or even more of the enemy team may disconnect, or the enemy can throw like crazy. A lot of games are win-able if you try to communicate with your team and play together well. (Trying to communicate in lower elo is harsh I know)

KarunamonJun 6, 20186 votes

Statistically yes, but the nature of ranked means that it's more worth your time to just eat the loss and quickly get back in queue and get back on the horse. Playing out a 28 minute stompfest that was effectively decided by 10:00 is not fun, it is demoralizing and tilting, and provides very little in the way of practical experience.

YracoJun 6, 20181 votes

Sometimes no votes on surrenders will cause someone to troll the game in hopes of ending it faster. Pretty sure removing the ff vote would increase the amount of times this happens.

ArsinikJun 6, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Sometimes no votes on surrenders will cause someone to troll the game in hopes of ending it faster. Pretty sure removing the ff vote would increase the amount of times this happens.

Then simply report that person who trolls and they will get punished we can't not implement something that would be beneficial just because trolls would ruin it. Otherwise the problem won't get fixed. You let them win if that's your mentality.

karolmoJun 6, 20185 votes

People saying "game times are not going shorter" is just looking at it wrongly.

A plat-dia game might last 30 mins assuming the losing team doesn't give up because they are decent at base turtling, but i can tell you with a 75%+ chances of hitting it right who's winning that game at minute 10 with a 10-second look at the scoreboards.

It doesn't matter if we can turtle up, If our mid is 0-4 at min 11, i can tell you that game is over. If their adc is 3-0-1 and 20 cs ahead at min 10, i can tell you, that game is over.

Yes, it will take them 10-15 mins if we hold up because they can't inhib tower dive us yet but that game is already lost because we can't farm, we can't contest drake/herald/nashor and we can't hold the lanes 1v1/2v2 anymore. They will get nashor at 20, then come mid, then push our whole base down, back and finish the push with nashored super minions. That pattern repeats on over half of the games i play on plat 3-4.

The "never surrender" thing works below gold because people is so bad at the game there that they throw every time. A team with half a braincell that gets a lead on current soloq is never throwing it, and unless a major mistake (like a nash getting stolen or smth) happens, the game will be over before min 25.

Burns MasterJun 6, 20184 votes

Many of the games feel finished even in champ select alone.

M00ndanc3Jun 6, 20184 votes

i just finished a game in 14 minutes and no body had even finished an item yet except for the jg item

Sp33d Zer0Jun 6, 20181 votes

I'm assuming you are talking about the game with the 0/3 smiteless Vi on the enemy team where your heimerdinger finished his luden's?

M00ndanc3Jun 6, 20181 votes

yeah, it was a wierd game. the enemy team was all kinds of messed up. It was just suprising that it was possible when we wern't even pushing verry hard or even had items to support it. The only way it was even possible is that we had a heim and i succured rift herald while the jg went around and forced all the other lane to fall behind.

Sp33d Zer0Jun 6, 20181 votes

But you should still recognize that you won in 14:50 for what was essentially a 4v5 from the start. Not just that but Vi was also detrimental to her team by helping start the snowball for your team alongside being unable to be an efficient member of the team because she had no smite.

Leto GTJun 6, 20184 votes

Damage needs to be tuned down. Too much damage, way too early in the game. The game potential/depth has been diminished enormously as a result. It's all about blood shed everywhere and snowball out of control. [cass-cry] ARAM feels even more balanced than SR atm.

MasterDCloneJun 8, 20181 votes

Riot just released huge nerfs to jungle power and adc damage so wouldnt that be a step in the right direction?

Leto GTJun 8, 20181 votes

It's not a power nerf per se as they introduced a 1 powerskipe item item 3095 . It's more delaying the pop timer of champions using crit to shift the adc meta which suceeded since we see mf, ez and lucian still carrying as adc used to. Jungle was a nerf for sure, it didn't stop their snowballing power, it just shifted the meta again for duelist. Look the changes coming to bruisers next week, it's a pure buff. There's no direction into nerfing damage at all, just changes and shifting the meta.

nGioJun 6, 20183 votes

I used to be the 'we can still win no matter what' guy in previous seasons. Matchmaking is a complete mess, and damage is so absurdly high that snowballing is out of fucking control. League has become Texas Hold Em. When you're dealt a bad hand early, just fold, and get to the next hand. The worst part is that I'd rather be playing URF or One For All, and Riot won't let me, because they want me playing LC$ Simulator, though I don't give 2 shits about competitive play.

Jeanne fan clubJun 6, 20183 votes

My ranked games have been a bit different. Stomps are kind of occasional, but most games feel like they are drawn out and somewhat close for the majority of the game. I mean its not like gold advantage is within 1000 for every one of my games, but there has always felt like a possibility for either team to pull out ahead. I'm kind of satisfied right now with game length actually.

remakoroJun 6, 20182 votes

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/img/infographics/patch-8-11.jpg?t=424518

Actually game durations hardly changed during last several patches...

KarunamonJun 6, 20188 votes

We're not talking about game duration (spawn to nexus pop), we're talking about when the winner of the game is effectively decided. The second one happens a lot earlier than the first one.

mack9112Jun 6, 20182 votes

I feel the player base at large is just tired of being stomped by the same obvios op thing of the week. I really hope riot does something soon to rectify this because I really do love this game but it is spiraling really hard right now in my opinion.

Quil EvrythingJun 6, 20181 votes

except Im far more often, seeing the entire rest of the tema feed. not just one person. i mean, multiple times now, i was in a team where we are 1 and 9 by 10 minutes. I of course get the 1 kill meabwhile.. literally EVERY OTHER LANE Gives up a kill. or 2. or 3. or 4. :-/ but whats the most frustrating thing, is that theese feeder aholes WONT FF AT 15. I could deal with it way more easly if they let me out. but no.

there has been NO GAME i've been in, where we are down 9 kills by 10 mins, and ended up wining. Take away the stupid unanimous limit for 15min ff.

Burns MasterJun 6, 20185 votes

Pretty sure they're going to make the 15 min surrender no longer unanimous. I thought I read or watched it somewhere. I agree though, I had a game where I was the only person with a decent score and my team just fed because they got so tilted so early in.

YennJun 6, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Burns Master,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X1na4fnc,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-06-06T05:37:38.751+0000)

Pretty sure they're going to make the 15 min surrender no longer unanimous. I thought I read or watched it somewhere. I agree though, I had a game where I was the only person with a decent score and my team just fed because they got so tilted so early in.

The probably isn't that they're tilted, the problem is that they literally do not know how to play unless they're ahead.

TheSingularityJun 7, 20182 votes

Tbh there's so little control once you're behind.

In s3-5 sure you could farm, play passive. But doing that now means the enemy rampages down mid and wins. You don't have time to catch up

Burns MasterJun 7, 20181 votes

Oh yeah, with how heavy the feast or famine factor is, it's almost impossible to catch up now. I used to have tons of comeback games back in season 4-7 but since 8 that's been rare. Plus those games ARE comebacks usually start as neck and neck even games.

MasterDCloneJun 8, 20181 votes

but people in those season complained so much about how the games were too long and not snowbally enough because how ever had better late won, it's just over time it's grown to be the exact opposite.

I guarantee you that if riot releases a patch that turns the game into a late game wins the game kind of patch with each game lasting 35-40 min the boards would be in outrage about how the games are too long.

TheSingularityJun 8, 20181 votes

but people in those season complained so much about how the games were too long and not snowbally enough because how ever had better late won, it's just over time it's grown to be the exact opposite.

This primarily was season 5, when games were long not because people scaled slowly. but because wave clear was that dam strong you could hold off any team comp indefinitely. It wasn't fun, it was boring. Losses dragged on for 40min+, and win's took 50 min+. Add in how scary tanks were for the entirety of season 5, and how useless ADC's were in comparison, any wonder we got where we are today? because riot saw one extreme and flipped it over to another extreme

For 3 and 4, average game was about 35 minutes for me. IMO that's juuuuust right. Long enough to scale and win or make a comeback but short enough that winning doesn't feel like a chore

I guarantee you that if riot releases a patch that turns the game into a late game wins the game kind of patch with each game lasting 35-40 min the boards would be in outrage about how the games are too long.

Chances are this is correct. because people go nuts when drastic changes happen but assuming Riot didn't take it to the extreme (impossible to close out 50min+ games that are boring af). If they did it gradually until we hit the same meta with the same pacing. Mages are stronger, certain mages scale faster (some late game mages scale too slow even for lategame mages), armor is significantly stronger, guinsos gets a small nerf (to bring those adcs who use it in line).

MasterDCloneJun 8, 20181 votes

Oh so just like what happened with the gradual changes from that meta to this one which people complain about.

Now this isn't a flame but i- uh just want to note that ur season 5 math for games is kinda funny to look at because a 40 min loss and 50 min win in theory doesnt work because for one team to lose in 40 the other wins in that time, and vice versa. Just found it funny lol

TheSingularityJun 8, 20181 votes

40min ff, when we finally give up 50min win when we finally break their waveclear

if i had the option to ff. i always took it

Yets4240Jun 7, 20181 votes

Sadly, this is definitely becoming a factor.

TheSingularityJun 6, 20184 votes

This is correct. I think they said that in over 80% or so games where a team attempts to FF @15, the team will end up FF'ing at 20 anyway implying it's almost always one person who stops the vote, and that 80% of the team has already given up and wants to move on

HorseProofBaconJun 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Due to one lane getting stomped so badly that the rest of the team can't even attempt to help, because the player is both playing badly and the champion in that lane is so fed that it takes the entire team to kill it.

This is not fun. If we're going to continue with this 'worst player decides the game' thing that's been going on since last season, more steps need to be taken to ensure consistent skill level across teams, and further punish the feast or famine players who are thriving in this meta.

Since "last season"? Man do I feel old, this has been a problem since the game went live. Worst player has always decided the game (it's why I stopped playing SR completely).

ISeeDumbPeopleJun 6, 20181 votes

Game is so snowbally it is pretty easy to feel hopeless after the first 8 min or so. I kind of start feeling like giving up when bot tower falls at or before 7 min... most of the time that then means they just go push over other lanes still. First tower = all outer turrets which = about a 3k gold lead. Not too bad, but generally that is when they get herald and basically close the game unless they do something dumb. Making a last attempt at plat in 3s where at least the turrets are still somewhat of a threat and we don't have map objectives that auto kill 3 towers.

hoshizukuJun 6, 20181 votes

It's also pretty shitty that your tower can fall after two ganks, even if you didn't die during those ganks but were made low enough to be forced out of lane. Towers are a joke.

sleepysithlordJun 6, 20181 votes

Is that so wrong? The first 10-15 minutes of a game are the most important. The team that is winning after the first 15 minutes should win the vast majority of the games.

They should have to throw to lose

hoshizukuJun 6, 20181 votes

Except the idea of "scaling into lategame" has decreased significantly, so that sucks. Used to if we had better late-game scaling champions (like Jinx or something) then we had a hope of just farming up and turning the tides, but it's much harder/impossible unless you are already ahead.

SpencerJun 6, 20181 votes

I don't actually mind the games being shorter. As I get older, I have less time to play and so a 20-30 minute game is far more preferable to me than a 40-50 minute game (it is a big reason I'm playing LoL and not DotA... though after the jungle changes, that is slowly changing).

My bigger gripe is that the game is snowbally as hell. By minute 10 you have a good idea of who is going to win. By minute 20 it seems almost guaranteed. I wish there was a way to keep the game length roughly what it is now while rolling back how bad the snowball is.

KSYNJun 6, 20181 votes

Good point. Change surrender vote from 15/20 to 10/15

Sp33d Zer0Jun 6, 20181 votes

This is what people wanted from the ability to solo carry a game.

You cannot hard solo carry if you cannot shut someone down.

There is no world where you can have a game that has little repercussion for losing while also giving the enemy team large advantages for outplaying you. It will always be equivalent. If you want less snowballing you have to be willing to give up ability to be a one man wrecking crew.

Shazzbot69Jun 7, 20181 votes

Game to short for you? Come over to dota 2 and enjoy our 30min average games with games that may last up to an hour even in pubs. Also no surrender so you can't puss out of the games.

FlashesJun 7, 20181 votes

ok but dota's fugly

Shazzbot69Jun 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

ok but dota's fugly

i really meant that as a joke. But on a serious note, I prefer dota 2's character design and art style over league's. League is too cartoony for me. If you don't that is fine by me.

MasterDCloneJun 8, 20181 votes

Um for one lane too lose wouldnt that mean that on the other its the best player wins the game, which is called solo-carrying which is what everyone has been asking for

YennJun 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Um for one lane too lose wouldnt that mean that on the other its the best player wins the game, which is called solo-carrying which is what everyone has been asking for

You can have Diamond vs. Diamond in two lanes and a Gold player vs. a Silver player in the third lane. The Gold player isn't the best player, but it's significantly better than the Silver player, who is in the same lane.

It doesn't matter that virtually everyone else in the game is better than the Gold player once they're fed, because they win the numbers game. Skill takes a back seat when numbers allow people to play like retards and win.

RekSai CoffeeCoJun 8, 20181 votes

Had plenty of 20-30 min games lately and even if one person was falling off could still win as a team oh wait you are talking Scuttle Crab Rift and not ARAM.