Make only the highest source between lethality, % pen/%reduction apply.

WoonStruck·Feb 5, 2017·14 votes·1,040 views

If someone is going a super early game snowball build with Lethality, there should be trade-offs with it.

Not the potential to deal close to true damage late game vs 120 or less armor targets. That's not really sacrificing late game damage potential, especially when most Lethality builds transition into crit in the case of ADCs.

######Riot: ADs with trade-offs?! Unthinkable!!

This would not affect BC+LW, just Lethality when combined with them.

25 Comments

CancerBasedGodFeb 5, 20175 votes

No.

WoonStruckFeb 5, 20174 votes

Yes.

CancerBasedGodFeb 5, 20173 votes

Yeah you're right items should break when used together cause you like to complain.

WoonStruckFeb 5, 20172 votes

How do the items break?

It gives a clear-cut use for the items without creating abuse situations, much like Steraks/Maw.

CancerBasedGodFeb 5, 20172 votes

Yeah stacking items is abusive. That's why you should be limited to one armor item.

ExhibitDFeb 5, 20173 votes

His steraks and maw comparison is actually a really good comparison. You built both items to do the accomplish the same goal, to survive burst damage, however it turned out that building both was unhealthy and now the passives no longer stack with each other.

His suggestion to cause armor shred, %pen, and lethality to work exactly the same way that steraks and maw interact with one another is not unreasonable and actually makes sense.

CancerBasedGodFeb 5, 20171 votes

Steraks does not disable maw. Not remotely equivalent. This is like saying, the shields stack now, so make it where if you buy both only one works.

ExhibitDFeb 5, 20172 votes

The OP did not say you wouldn't get the item's stats, He asked that the passives be unique with one another. The steraks and maw passives and unique because they wanted to accomplish the same thing. People want to accomplish the same thing with leth and %pen. Only difference being when in the game you pick up these items.

WoonStruckFeb 5, 20172 votes

If Sterak's activates, both go on CD.

If Maw activates (you somehow reach low HP without activating Sterak's), both go on CD.

Yeah, Sterak's does effectively disable Maw and visa versa. Only one does work.

If people just wanted AD+MR/AD+HP and not the passives, they'd go for any of the other options instead.

CancerBasedGodFeb 5, 20172 votes

Then why aren't you suggesting that flat lethality items don't stack? They're the ones with the same purpose, and the ones that give true damage on squishies. Why bring in % pen?

WoonStruckFeb 5, 20171 votes

Because the purpose of Flat armor pen is an early-mid game advantage due to the effective multiplier that low resists give to damage. Stacking Lethality is the purpose of Lethality.

Lethality alone is enough to bring sub-90 base armor champs down to just about 0.

It stacking so well with % pen helps it an unreasonable amount against the targets Lethality should not excel against.

PermabannedGarenFeb 5, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Because the purpose of Flat armor pen is an early-mid game advantage due to the effective multiplier that low resists give to damage. Stacking Lethality is the purpose of Lethality.

Lethality alone is enough to bring sub-90 base armor champs down to just about 0.

It stacking so well with % pen helps it an unreasonable amount against the targets Lethality should not excel against.

The entire purpose of changing flat pen to lethality was to make it weaker early, but to allow it to scale.

WoonStruckFeb 5, 20171 votes

And its pretty much just as strong now, but also scales.

Due to the amount of Lethality you can get in the game now, LW usually allows you to do true damage vs anyone under 120ish armor.

That is not exactly low armor. That is not what Lethality is supposed to excel against.

CancerBasedGodFeb 5, 20171 votes

So long story short you'd still do true damage to squishies, and tanks would be harder to kill. Problem solved. Except no. If anyrhing stopping stacking flat pen makes more sense.

(or we could remove lethality runes so you couldn't stack to 75 lethality.)

WoonStruckFeb 5, 20171 votes

No, it makes it so you won't still take true damage after completing an armor item.

You can only get ~82 total lethality.

The 80 is on the low end of base armor. 113 is the highest, IIRC.

CancerBasedGodFeb 5, 20171 votes

So squishies will still take true damage... I'm not building armor on an adc, and get at most 40 from zhonya's on mages. That would still be true damage or close to true damage on squishies. Meanwhile characters like Poppy and Maokai become unkillable.

deoje299Feb 5, 20171 votes

No?

SalronFeb 5, 20173 votes

Lethality on its own is overtuned as fuck though

DerfelFeb 5, 20172 votes

You know why they buffed lethality right? It's just another way for them to add more true damage into the game.

Edge of DaybreakFeb 5, 20171 votes

Sure as long as we do that to flat magic pen items and void staff :D

All jokes aside if that did happen it would probably be fine since only adc's usually go for whisper and flat pen.

WoonStruckFeb 5, 20171 votes

Precisely.

Weight of LawFeb 5, 20171 votes

except that almost all ad assassins build a last whisper item

agbudarFeb 5, 20171 votes

if they do that tanks won't just return but take over the game, trust me I'm a tank main and that is exactly what will happen.

those three stacking is not the problem.

the sheer amounts someone can purchase is the problem.

item 3033 for example simply does too much. invalidating any champion that relies on sustain. it invalidates 45% of ALL the armor you build ow and it gives 50 ad

all for the whopping cost of 2700 gold. the damage output vs the tankyness you get from for example item 3143 which is the best armor/hp item to get currently at a price for 2900 gold not only does it not give a comparable boost to tankyness it's also more expensive.

but riot is looking at all of this during the tank update.

personally i would like to see an item that reduces lethality (just lethality) but only good for tanks. just an idea btw nothing super thought out or anything

WoonStruckFeb 5, 20171 votes

Flat armor pen/lethality has little-to-nothing to do with tanks. lol

Its everything under 150 armor that gets shafted by this stacking interaction.

If you remove it, more melees besides tanks will be viable again. Namely ones like non-Darius Juggernauts, Renekton, Nocturne, Wu, Xin, etc.

SpoofghoulFeb 5, 20171 votes

Yes this 100%

i have to be honest here im tired of item 3147 item 3814 item 3142 item 3071 item 3036 + lethality runes and masteries being a thing

It's not really healthy when 400 armor gets reduced to 10 effective armor

at that point there is no longer a reason for building any armor, even just LDR already makes me cringe and not want to buy armor, and black cleaver should be re balanced into a fighter item because literally everyone buys and uses it.

personally when playing tanks im already ditching every piece of armor beyond the bare minimum i need to tank a turret and i just stack health/mr regen instead guess what 0 difference vs most ad's in terms of how badly they hurt, except now i have more hp and more health regen so i am more tanky . . .

Getting more tanky by avoiding to build armor . . That just feels wrong on so many levels.