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So, why is Ornn AD?

deadlychuck··2 votes·14,308 views

I mean, don't get me wrong, it's only 1 ability, but his kit seems to fall square in the middle of a tank subclasses, similar utility to Nautilus but with scaling more similar to Braum.

With tanks being overwhelmingly AP. Though he doesn't exactly seem to be lacking the extra utility that you'd normally see from a champion (again, let's say braum) of similar qualities, but with better offensive damage scaling.

But that's before you mention that he's actually mixed damage (Physical Q & E, Magic brittle, W, R), and thematically his Q seems like a magic damage spell along the lines of Taliyah E or Braum Ult thematically, but instead deals physical damage and scales with AD.

It just seems really bizarre, and seems like an attempt to introduce AD into the support role. I mean, idk where people are taking him on PBE, but again he seems like he's be a middle ground of Braum and Nautilus for utility, easily pushing him primarily towards support, except he gets the AD scaling and itemization advantage.

20 Comments

EmperorPengu2 votes

He's a top/jungle character. He does mixed damage to make it tougher for tanks to itemize against him.

Kanyoupipu2 votes

{quoted}

I mean, don't get me wrong, it's only 1 ability, but his kit seems to fall square in the middle of a tank subclasses, similar utility to Nautilus but with scaling more similar to Braum.

With tanks being overwhelmingly AP. Though he doesn't exactly seem to be lacking the extra utility that you'd normally see from a champion (again, let's say braum) of similar qualities, but with better offensive damage scaling.

But that's before you mention that he's actually mixed damage (Physical Q & E, Magic brittle, W, R), and thematically his Q seems like a magic damage spell along the lines of Taliyah E or Braum Ult thematically, but instead deals physical damage and scales with AD.

It just seems really bizarre, and seems like an attempt to introduce AD into the support role. I mean, idk where people are taking him on PBE, but again he seems like he's be a middle ground of Braum and Nautilus for utility, easily pushing him primarily towards support, except he gets the AD scaling and itemization advantage.

i googled is orn ap or ad and your stupid thread got me killed top lane thanks

Shuyin1781 votes

Why is Illaoi AD? Because it's RIot so to someone it makes sense.

AFK Push1 votes

Sion

SanKakU1 votes

Edit: I consider many warriors to be tanks. If a warrior is durable, it is a tank. That means many fighters(you'll see them below) are basically durable warriors, and in my mind, a durable warrior is a tank.

Tanks that are AD, or at least deal a lot of physical damage:

Volibear, Poppy, Old Rammus, New Rammus, Darius, Malphite, New Sion, Blitzcrank, Renekton, Nasus, Garen, Wukong, new Urgot, Illaoi, Old Taric, and Olaf.

So I don't think the statement 'tanks are overwhelmingly AP' is honest.

AFK Push2 votes

According to Riot, Voibear, Darius, Renekton, Nasus, Garen, Wukong, Urgot, Illaoi, and Olaf are all bruisers. All except Renkton and Wukong belong in the juggernaut class, renekton and wu are diver bruisers. This is Riots classification of them.

SanKakU1 votes

Yeah, well...the way they designed the champions made them much more flexible than their class labels. Volibear for example has a passive that makes him extremely tanky. Garen's passive is similar to his. Darius and Illaoi even have built in tank passives for healing themselves and get stronger the longer a conflict rages on. I can see how these two in particular would fit the profile of 'fighter' rather than tank, but I actually feel like there are too many classifications for the champions. That's why players tend to create their own simplified definitions. Why, just look at HotS, in their design there are even only 4 classes, warrior(this word isn't even a class name in LoL), assassin, support, and specialist. And people colloquially call all the warriors 'tanks' for whatever reason. Some assassins and some warriors would be classified as a fighter or whatever in Riot's classification parameters, so it's clear that not everyone shares the same opinions of how champions should be classified.

AFK Push2 votes

Yes, and in pokemon tanks are the equivalents to fighters, and walls are tanks but we are talking about league here not another game. Juggernauts are bruisers that are capable of carry level damage, are very limited in their mobility and cc. Diver bruisers have mobility to go in and blow up the squishies, but don't have reliable ways out like assassins and need to build bulk for the aftermath.

A pure tank gets rewarded for building tank, they usually have hp or resistance scalings in their kit, they also have oodles of cc and utility for their team to benefit from. Tanks primarily do magic damage as a whole, there aren't any tanks that do only or mostly physical damage. Ornn is the same as Sion, with two physical and two magic. They are trying to break the mold a little bit, but there still isn't an actual physical tank yet.

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

A pure tank gets rewarded for building tank, they usually have hp or resistance scalings in their kit, they also have oodles of cc and utility for their team to benefit from. Tanks primarily do magic damage as a whole, there aren't any tanks that do only or mostly physical damage. Ornn is the same as Sion, with two physical and two magic. They are trying to break the mold a little bit, but there still isn't an actual physical tank yet.

When were talking AD tank, we generally talking AD scaling physical damage, on their spells. Where this concept of a Tank falls apart is the fact that Auto Attacks also scale with AD. So pushing a kit with AD scaling spells, it would be difficult to push such a kit and not build even a modest amount of AD. (In which case, you're becoming more of a fighter than a tank)

The only time I've seen an full AD who builds full tank, are champions who were fighters to begin with, but relied on their engage and CC rather than damage. (Think Jarvan or Rek'sai) But even then, they probably had more DPS than most Tanks who relied on their spells.

SanKakU1 votes

there aren't any tanks that do only or mostly physical damage.

Um, you forgot Poppy. And I already listed her. She scales with no AP and she deals no magic damage with her kit.

AFK Push1 votes

Ahh forgot about her. Like I said they have been trying to break the mold, with her, Sion, and Ornn we are starting to see actual tanks that deal at least half physical. Those are the only real Ad tanks though, a champ like wukong couldn't be a real tank for example. He scales off of bonus ad and lethality the best, his only cc is his ult, and offers no utility outside or reduced armor on q and his ult knockup. He is better played/built as an assassin or diver due to huge ad scalings, having stealth, and reliable mobility/burst.

Sirsir1 votes

Old Rammus dealt physical damage? I thought most of his damage came from Thornmails, Cinder, and his W (unless you built AP but thats not relevant here)

SanKakU1 votes

Armor gave him AD. It was his passive. AP didn't give him any physical damage. You might be thinking of Janna, since her shield's AD bonus scales with her AP.

Darkdemon6531 votes

{quoted}

Tanks that are AD, or at least deal a lot of physical damage:

Volibear, Poppy, Old Rammus, New Rammus, Darius, Malphite, New Sion, Blitzcrank, Renekton, Nasus, Garen, Wukong, new Urgot, Illaoi, Old Taric, and Olaf.

So I don't think the statement 'tanks are overwhelmingly AP' is honest.

Darius, Blitz, Renekton, Nasus, Garen, Wukong, Urgot, Illaoi, Taric, and Olaf are not tanks. Rammus (both), Malphite, Blitz, and Taric do not deal physical damage.

SanKakU1 votes

Old Taric reduced enemy champion's armor scaling with his armor. So he actually could pile on a lot of physical damage(even if a lot of that physical damage technically wasn't 'his', he still amplified it through his W), and a good item for armor is IBG which deals physical damage.

Old Rammus' passive gave him AD and his E reduced enemy's armor. New Rammus scales with Attack Speed and his E gives him attack speed, so he is going to naturally have a high physical damage output. Building AD items on him since he now has an attack speed steroid wouldn't be weird at all. And the old Rammus was good with attack speed once you reached a certain armor threshold.

Malphite's W has always dealt physical damage, and the old Malphite even had the AD version of Deathcap on his W. You can't say he doesn't deal physical damage.

Blitzcrank's passive scales with mana, and an easy way to pile on both mana and damage is to get Manamune. He also has an attack speed steroid. And his E scales with his AD. I actually think Blitzcrank could use a new passive, but that's beside the point.

You can debate about champion classifications all you want, but if you think New Taric(Old Taric as well) and new Urgot aren't tanks I'm just going to have to assume you don't think being durable qualifies a champion as a tank.

I think you can easily call those champions warriors if not tanks, and if you're not willing to do that then I guess it's because you think warrior is a bad word or something. I'm effectively using the words interchangeably. Maybe I shouldn't be doing that, but I am.

baetoevn1 votes

I agree; he really should be ability power-based!

Ralanr1 votes

Probably to give him more flexible build paths or to prevent him from building tanky AP items to go bruiser more damage often.

Granted idc. I love AD scaling tanks (Poppy, Sion) so I don't mind another one.

Colgate Gator1 votes

I mean, Blacksmithing requires a shit ton of strenght, so...

deadlychuck1 votes

You're thinking of dota son

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