Don't suppose any Rioter can speak out about the whole Morde/Sona/Cass identity fiasco?

RedCyclone·Oct 18, 2015·78 votes·2,730 views

This place has less red then a Noir film

52 Comments

SachabotOct 18, 201511 votes

I don't think that they will, given the amount of general vitriol that they receive when they try. Maybe when the community calms down and grows up a bit (as a whole*) then we can have a discussion. But until that point, I don't really think many Reds are interested in being caps lock'd to death by a bunch of keyboard warriors.

*I say this because while there are a number of people who are concerned about the identity/balance of their favored champion, the majority seems to be the G&B circlejerk and that's not a healthy point to start a discussion from.

RedCycloneOct 18, 201534 votes

A large majority of the threads on the front page are incredibly reasonable and are reaching out for attention

Just because there are a bunch of people who create angry posts does not mean they cannot actually post to people who are not in need of anger management, Riot need to realize those people need to be ignored and not the people who genuinely care about the game

If a red post was to appear in the Sona thread I made, the only way they are going to get backlash is if they deny the problem, and the constant silence what they are doing now is not really helping these situations at all

kagepaladinOct 18, 201517 votes

Malicious Metal for example is the most prime example for that, out of eveyone he is the most polite and respectable person fighting for our mordekaiser mains rights.

RedCycloneOct 18, 201514 votes

Precisely, that guy deserves some feedback

Troll for TrumpOct 18, 20155 votes

And the other half are rage posts. And the comment sections. Oh god. ANd when the rioters do post, circlejerkers downvote to oblivion and randoms start flaming...

RedCycloneOct 18, 20156 votes

When did riot become a team full of wussies? if they can't take the responses to their own rash balance decisions they should probably never incite community discussion EVER, they don't have to respond to the asshat comments... and general downvoting is a good indication of how much the community dislikes their response

A great response is going to get a ton of love, while a response that boils down to "we know best" is going to get the shit downvoted out of it

The company is called RIOT games, not Cuddle games They need to grow a backbone

SammystormOct 19, 20151 votes

Honestly why should they respond to every thread ever? If they have already addressed something why should they repeat themselves? Why should they have to be yelled at? Do you want to respond to every thread? Do you like people complaining about you and yelling at you? Do you like repeating your self?

Troll for TrumpOct 19, 20151 votes

"Do you like people complaining about you and yelling at you? Do you like repeating your self?" Hello guys. I'm Donald Trump and I am the best boss ever!

SammystormOct 19, 20151 votes

Lol

Hayaishi2Oct 19, 20153 votes

{quoted}

When did riot become a team full of wussies? if they can't take the responses to their own rash balance decisions they should probably never incite community discussion EVER, they don't have to respond to the asshat comments... and general downvoting is a good indication of how much the community dislikes their response

A great response is going to get a ton of love, while a response that boils down to "we know best" is going to get the shit downvoted out of it

The company is called RIOT games, not Cuddle games They need to grow a backbone

Because a "Great response" boils down to what you'd like to hear. Not what it truly is. Riot knows better than to argue with us and i don't blame them.

I finally lost all hope when someone in a morde thread stated that him being called "Master Of metal" was his identity. A fucking title means a champion identity? that same thread had close to 100 upvotes, so Riot has their reasons.

Troll for TrumpOct 19, 20151 votes

Ok, what is REALLLLYYY stupid was the whole community flipping out because "Fiora's Hair and TItle" Ok. The title was a little iffy, so what it's not super bad. The hair. Really? How about we ask for Grave's Cigar(Kappa) or TF to have his hat removed. As for Morde's title. I don't like it either. Deal with it. There are way worse things to be worrying about than a single generic title. A lot of other champs have horribly generic titles too. And yes, the title fits the champs current kit well. And even his olderlore isn't revolved around "OH MAN I CONTROL METAL METALBENDING AVATAR 5TH ELEMENT LOOK AT ME" No, it was Ima kill murder you like the Shadow Isle Masochist Mordekaiser is.

The Emperor of the Sands, The Purifier, The Ice Witch(NARNIAAAA), The Secret Weapon, The Master of Shadows, The Spider Queen, The Dark Sovereign, The Fae Sorceress, The Titan of the Depths etc.

Hayaishi2Oct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Ok, what is REALLLLYYY stupid was the whole community flipping out because "Fiora's Hair and TItle" Ok. The title was a little iffy, so what it's not super bad. The hair. Really? How about we ask for Grave's Cigar(Kappa) or TF to have his hat removed. As for Morde's title. I don't like it either. Deal with it. There are way worse things to be worrying about than a single generic title. A lot of other champs have horribly generic titles too. And yes, the title fits the champs current kit well. And even his olderlore isn't revolved around "OH MAN I CONTROL METAL METALBENDING AVATAR 5TH ELEMENT LOOK AT ME" No, it was Ima kill murder you like the Shadow Isle Masochist Mordekaiser is.

The Emperor of the Sands, The Purifier, The Ice Witch(NARNIAAAA), The Secret Weapon, The Master of Shadows, The Spider Queen, The Dark Sovereign, The Fae Sorceress, The Titan of the Depths etc.

Exactly, pretty much what i meant.

Lintu PuckOct 19, 20151 votes

agreed 100% >.<

Troll for TrumpOct 19, 20151 votes

Riot became a team full of wussies when they make posts in threads like: "Nerf Zed" "Nerf Vayne" "Fix Morde" and other circlejerk threads. They post their thoughts on them, and, if it is against what the circlejerkers believe in; Blam-o, Tons of downvotes, Tons of flaming comments. Why would you ask them for communication when all you will do is just flame and hate on them for their comments. Heck you flame and hate on Riot all the time even when they aren't communicating.

"they can't take the responses to their own rash balance decisions they should probably never incite community discussion EVER, they don't have to respond to the asshat comments... and general downvoting is a good indication of how much the community dislikes their response" Quite a bit of flaws here. They take responses to their decisions. They do post what they think (much more so on reddit and Q&As). But whenever they do, they get hated a lot. If you want them to post a lot, perhaps you don't be "asshats" to them. Downvoting is bs. Let's take some Vayne controversy. You go to a Vayne QQ thread, say "OMG VAYNE YOU BROKENPIECE OF TRASH ONESHOTGSNFNHFKJNHSKFJN" You get tons of upvotes. You post in a "Save Vayne" Thread and.... "This comment has been downvoted to oblivion and can't be seen" followed by tons of rage. Similarly, these things also happen to riot

"A great response is going to get a ton of love, while a response that boils down to "we know best" is going to get the shit downvoted out of it" Then why do people always upvote random "we know best" stuff. Not nerfing Riven or Zed or Lee because "We think they shouldn't be nerfed"? Have some upvotes.

"The company is called RIOT games, not Cuddle games" Well. It's called Riot GAMES. They only have one legitimate game that will last in the long run. So idk man

"They need to grow a backbone" Aight, this will lead to tons of downvotes. At this time and age, EVERYONE needs to get a backbone. Everyone wants to be the politically correct person, and anything you say will offend someone somehow. People will report you for "Verbal abuse" for the tiniest things. "Quit being a pansy?" Reported "Trolling?" Verb abuse report "We don't like you?" Verb Abuse "Muted" Reportedverb abuse "I won't gank a lane that's behind" Reported "Stop typing and play" Reported "BUild Inf Edge not Botrk first pls" "Don't tell me what to do" Reported "Salt" Reported "Youmad cuz ur bad?" reported "Gg ez" reported.

SammystormOct 19, 20151 votes

Would you say your thread is incredibly reasonable? It is incredible sarcastic.

MordepoolOct 18, 20153 votes

{quoted}

the majority seems to be the G&B circlejerk

Did you read every thread did you cross reference names from previous threads or are you making a very broad assumption. I have been in every Morde thread since 5.16.
So you could call me a regular. And I have seen the regular faces. They are still there but the flood of new faces who never played Mordekaiser concerned over the painful mishandling of Mordekaiser. Is the vast Majority

Lintu PuckOct 19, 20151 votes

I am sorry you were downvoted so much for stating truth. >.<

xJLx MCHammerOct 18, 20154 votes

Nothing wrong with sona

Cass identity is as it should be

Morde...yeah he is..idk

RedCycloneOct 18, 201527 votes

A support who needs tons of AP to work

A poison mage who's poison abilities suck because it's all loaded in her incredibly boring twin fang

Morde is just an abomination

LoquaciousKumqatOct 18, 20153 votes

...I like Cass :( She's an adc who uses magic instead.

I like Sona - I use her mid and even top sometimes. She does need a little rework though. That E :/

Kitty von TunaOct 19, 20151 votes

I would say that's it's only her E that actually works on her. That burst of movement speed + a slow combined with her passive

Faded LichOct 18, 20153 votes

Her E is as important as it's always been and her poisons when combined with the poison buff, are actually about as strong (and stronger late game) than they were originally. Do the math, compare them and enlighten yourself like so many refuse too. People were trying to ignore there E on old cass like fools.

Now they can't, as it should be. She. IS. Fine.

Bouffon dAnglaisOct 18, 201514 votes

Cass was THE poison mage. Her E was nice but it wasn't ALL her kit had. Most of her damage/utility/everything was moved to her E and her Q and W are now there just as the means to spam E, and the tiny bit of utility they still have.

Faded LichOct 18, 20152 votes

I've argued and shown evidence against this point so many times it's pretty easily searchable, feel free to look one up. But, to sum it up.

Rose colored glasses and you're wrong.

^--the super short and simple version.

Kitty von TunaOct 19, 20151 votes

I remember in season 1, when Cassiopeia was actually able to deal damage with her poison.. miss that

SammystormOct 19, 20151 votes

It was the only reason she was viable. Twin fangs is the skill that made cass and still is. She was such a lane bully before that you could sub-optimally but viably play her as a poison mage but that isn't ever what her most dominant play style was. Her most dominant play style has always revolved around twin fangs.

Bouffon dAnglaisOct 19, 20151 votes

Dominant=/=good and healthy for the game.

SammystormOct 20, 20151 votes

You may be right but she was never balanced or really played around being a poison mage except by a select few. If you asked people prior to the rework about cass most would say her twin fangs stood out the most.

Kitsuki05Oct 18, 20151 votes

What's wrong with the game having a support that builds tons of AP? I like Sona, don't mess with Sona. She doesn't have to be mlg pro-strats efficient to be played well and enjoyed.

LankPantsOct 18, 20152 votes

What's wrong with the game having a support that builds tons of AP?

Basically it's impossible to get that AP without fucking up your team by ignoring utility.

Kitsuki05Oct 19, 20151 votes

incorrect

RedCycloneOct 19, 20152 votes

I don't mind having the option to build AP if I have to, but if I want to support without the need of 300+AP, not really possible, at that point I am taking kills to fuel my resource

I kind of hate putting my allied laner through that, it's Sona is like the damn Nidalee support champion now, heck even I don't bother with a damn sightstone

Kitty von TunaOct 19, 20151 votes

Yeah, if you want a support who needs to buy a ton of ap to be viably, then you can pretty much use ANY ap champion with any form of cc as a support... Leblanc, Ahri, Syndra...

TurquoiseYoshiOct 18, 20154 votes

To be fair, Cassio's identity issues stem from what players saw her as before the rework. She really isn't that off, if you look at her objectively. If Swain was reworked to be very tactical, people would complain about his identity, but his identity would objectively make more sense.

manbearswineOct 18, 20154 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, Cassio's identity issues stem from what players saw her as before the rework.

Uhm,isn't that supposed to be like...the biggest factor? I mean when they reworked sion,they decided they will keep whatever small identity he had,so they kept the hp scaling. With poppy they said they will keep her jungle/top,and her bash with her e.

Obviously when reworking a champion,his current playerbase is the biggest concern,otherwise just create a new champion altogether.

RozzetaOct 18, 20153 votes

Issue is, that would involve talking poorly about other Rioter's work, even if they didn't want to. So, the only people left to talk about it would be the people who made the reworks, all who think their work is a masterpiece that completely delivers the best player experience while maintaining loyal to the champion.

Faded LichOct 18, 20152 votes

Cass has no indentity issue. Bandwagons just have brain trauma.

Sona doesn't have an identity issue either, she just has a flat out overnerfed issue.

...mord is a fair question.

chipndip1Oct 18, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Faded Lich,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuusWMBJ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-10-18T06:18:25.765+0000)

Cass has no indentity issue. Bandwagons just have brain trauma.

Sona doesn't have an identity issue either, she just has a flat out overnerfed issue.

...mord is a fair question.

I don't see how being horribly squishy while forced to the front line of team fights while not functioning well with support items while not being able to afford ap items is...a decent identity...

Everything about her is underwhelming because she can "do it all", but Thresh can do about as much as she can in different areas and still be allowed to show up like every 3rd game in solo q while being a strong pick in competitive play. His build paths make sense and are affordable since they're primarily affordable defensive items, and the beginning of his engage can start well out of the range of enemies since it's his hook. That double standard is stupid. Problems like these only boil over when people stay silent for too long on a topic.

SammystormOct 19, 20151 votes

Sona has a good kit and a solid identity. Her numbers are numerically weak. That doesn't mean she suffers from a identity crisis. You are talking about gameplay balance. The other person was talking about identity. Sion for example, will always have a identity now no matter how bad he gets nerfed. He will also always have the potential of having a good kit.

Leu07Oct 18, 20152 votes

People who say Cass is fine never even play her, they don't even know what her passive gives her, they know nothing, it's just that once in a while they get to fight a Cassio main who does well. But truly Cassio is outclassed by other mages and is extremely frustating to play as in the early and mid game, her bases are too low, too team dependent compared to other mages and her mechanics get really boring after you play her a couple of times. Her W is laughable, it does no damage and it is only used to slow for a bit (25% slow rank 1) to hit a Q and start spamming E, that's it. Once you get a Rylais her W is technically useless since your Es and Q will slow targets better. Her damage is really poor if you compare her to her mana pool, she can drain her mana really quickly without dealing that much damage early game, if for example Viktor or even Anivia drain their manapool to deal damage to a target, the damage dealt would be higher than Cass's, I'm talking in the early game... Late game she is fine, kind of broken even, two E's and the squishy is dead, I don't like her pattern as it is right now. I think Cass should be a poison/control mage, not a machine gun.

SammystormOct 19, 20151 votes

Cass is a hyper carry. She also is a bit of a lane bully. The mana refresh on her e also means she really has an easy time charging up. You think she should be a poison mage I think she already is. I think Cass has had her identity more solidified. You saying that Anivia can do more damage by draining her mana pool is really silly. If she drains her mana pool with her r she does like no damage. Her best combo is R->E

Starfish HOct 19, 20152 votes

It's probably because if they even think of typing out anything the post gets down voted to oblivion.

kagepaladinOct 18, 20151 votes

I think if anything will happen it won't happen until after worlds, if you recall they said they wouldn't do any more changes until after worlds is over. So it could be just be a matter of time and the thing I think that is making people mad is that Riot has not responded to any post whatsoever even malicious metal who normally is very polite and intellectual in his posts about mordekaiser has received no feedback even though he is polite as possible.

RedCycloneOct 18, 20155 votes

That's okay, just want them to acknowledge the problems

Bouffon dAnglaisOct 18, 20157 votes

All they need to do for now is take 3 minutes and reply to literally anything with "We know"/"We're working on it"/"Expect something about X champion soon" or anything like this

Valderis VandalaOct 18, 20154 votes

That would be making promises and giving false hope, they can't do that without risking even more outrage later down the line.

BrascusOct 18, 20151 votes

Noir*

RedCycloneOct 18, 20151 votes

bugger me blue

SolaxoOct 18, 20151 votes

They're too arrogant for that

MooninitesOct 19, 20151 votes

I've played a lot of Cassiopeia since her release and I was pretty disappointed with her rework. I'm not sure Cassiopeia has an identity crisis, they just changed her in a way that is generally unsuitable to gameplay.

They took a champion that is squishy and has no mobility and made her a short-range mage; that in itself is a recipe for disaster. I think the major issue is that so much of her damage is frontloaded onto her (E) Twin Fangs that it makes her others spells just an accessory to enable you to spam out more Twin Fangs which is a pretty bad feeling.

Her new passive is also pretty bad, it definitely has the feast or famine feel to it. If you're doing extremely well or extremely poorly in lane chances are you won't be getting as many stacks as if you were trading evenly. If you are completely shutting down the opponent, they're probably hiding under tower and you won't be able to poison them for more stacks. On the other hand if you're getting completely shit on, you won't be able to get many stacks either. I just don't really like a champion that has a ramp up time of at least 30+ minutes. It's almost impossible to get to 500 stacks before the 30 minute mark regardless of how well you're doing which is a pretty shitty feeling. Besides that, with the nerfs to her mana cost, it requires her to build a mana item, so you're pretty restricted to RoA or Tear, which in a lot of cases is fine, but it does limit her gameplay.

I just want them to reward you for winning lane; if I'm crushing someone in lane, I should be ramping up with Aspect of the Serpent stacks much more quickly. Furthermore, she shouldn't have lost her identity of a high range mage, she needs to be able to use her (Q) Noxious Blast for meaningful poke and harass, not just an accessory for her to use Twin Fang