AP Bruiser Equivalent to Black Cleaver?

LilxPaprika··1 votes·2,267 views

Item could combine item 3191 and item 3067

Stats: -50 AP -50 Armor -200 HP -20% CDR

This could work nicely on jax: item 3146 item 3078 item 3191 item 3091 item 3083 item 3111. would also be half decent on yorickYorick , as his E heals him based off of magic damage. The ap wouldn't be that bad its only 50 and his w has a 100% ap ratio. and since its armor it would pair well with spirit visage. plus manamune and sunfire cape or righteous glory. The CDR also helps him use q more often making it sort of hybrid.

Unique Active: It would be similar to Nasus's spirit fire. In that you mark a target 175-radius area. and would reduce their resistance per second while they stand in it, by -3.5% magic resist per half a second (max 3.5 sec).
Debuff would last for another 3 second when outside the circle. and would pick up where left off if they reenter before the debuff ends. Would only reduce an enemy's resistances towards you. Since there is already abysal scepter. It would not do any damage however. or perhaps it could have a slow burn to it as well.

the active would have a fairly short cooldown too like 20 seconds sort of like hydra active.

there is also some counter play to it as people can try and stand outside of it or try to kite to bring to fight away from wherever you placed it.

13 Comments

IcyPepper1 votes

well there's already item 3091

But for your magic-using needs, there's also item 3001 item 3135.

Not all AP and AD items need a counterpart. There's no AP item 3139 nor is there an AD item 3157.

LilxPaprika1 votes

true, but there are no %magic pen items aside from void. and attack speed is for select champs making wits end more of a niche mpen item. where as ad champs for the most part can all benefit from ghostblade and blackcleaver. Granted there are mpen boots which ad don't have. idk just throwing it out there.

Renaille1 votes

{quoted}

true, but there are no %magic pen items aside from void. and attack speed is for select champs. where as ad champs for the most part can all benefit from ghostblade and blackcleaver.

There are no %armour pen items aside from last whisper.

LilxPaprika1 votes

Black cleaver does 5%armorpen. not flat armorpen

Dealing physical damage to an enemy champion reduces their armor by 5% for 6 seconds. (This effect stacks up to 6 times, up to 30%).

wow i just noticed it goes up to 30% now. dang its really good. and lasts for 6 seconds.

wow so a tank can have their resistances reduced for up to 60% plus 6% from the mastery. yikes

imo what they should have done is have it do -2armor + 5% per hit stacks up to 5 times. since don't they stack if you have two blackcleavers on a team. seems easy to reach 6 stacks. I wouldn't mind if the 6th stack was hard to get but with autos+adspells and two people, doesn't seem that difficult.

Or maybe 5% for first 5 stack apply for allies, last 5% only to you.

Renaille1 votes

{quoted}

Black cleaver does 5%armorpen. not flat armorpen

Dealing physical damage to an enemy champion reduces their armor by 5% for 6 seconds. (This effect stacks up to 6 times, up to 30%).

wow i just noticed it goes up to 30% now. dang its really good. and lasts for 6 seconds.

wow so a tank can have their resistances reduced for up to 60% plus 6% from the mastery. yikes

imo what they should have done is have it do -2armor + 5% per hit stacks up to 5 times. since don't they stack if you have two blackcleavers on a team. seems easy to reach 6 stacks. I wouldn't mind if the 6th stack was hard to get but with autos+adspells and two people, doesn't seem that difficult.

Or maybe 5% for first 5 stack apply for allies, last 5% only to you.

That is armour shred, not armour pen.

LilxPaprika1 votes

{quoted}

That is armour shred, not armour pen.

Please expound as to why its a moot point. Also doesn't wukong q and nasus debuff apply to allies or just to the champion attacking? Also curious where can I find a list of champions with magic shred. Found them here go figure didn't have to look far: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Penetration

You can see by the list that their magic pen don't reach nealy as much as the armor pen. Which makes sense. So why can't you do the same for this item? Have it just go up to 16% instead of 25.

Still relevant. Particularly since this item could offer magic shred instead too as it could only benefit the champion using it. trying to get the conversation going as well. I still don't understand why this couldn't fit.

Renaille1 votes

{quoted}

Please expound as to why its a moot point.

Because AD and AP are balanced differently. The armour shred item is percentage based because champions naturally gain more armour and can build more which means percentage shred is strongest. The magic shred item(abyssal) does flat shred because it's harder to stack magic resist, and magic damage is ment as more of a mid game damage source, which is where the large flat shred is best.

Also doesn't wukong q and nasus debuff apply to allies or just to the champion attacking?

Everyone.

Also curious where can I find a list of champions with magic shred.

Kog'Maw Q, Trundle Ulti, Jayce canon ult into auto, Karthus W, Kayle passive, Amumu passive, Fiddle passive, Ryze E

masterdragon4811 votes

I have to say no. Magic Resistance is found is much smaller quantities than armor is, so less penetration is a way of allowing people to not get 100-0 by ap champions. This is typically because magic damage comes in burst form and physical damage in sustained form. So there aren't as many ways to reduce mres, but there is less mres available overall.

LilxPaprika1 votes

Why do away with the item altogether. Couldn't you just make it do less %magicpen than black cleaver? This would also have counter play. Currently there are a lot of champions that can reduce/ignore a champions armor. Nasus/wukong/xin Zhao, yasuo ult... Shouldn't counter picking be more important?

While there are fewer ways to get Mr there are champions that get quite a bit from their kits, like shyvana Leona rammus garren... The only way to get through that effectively right now is void staff. Dfg was the tank buster item. But it ended up being used more to assassinate 100 to 0 anyone. This could fill that tankbuster void particularly since its % mpen.

LilxPaprika1 votes

Tbh its not uncommon that I face champions with over 100 magic resits. In which case % would work better. So the magic/spell spells shred do not stack? They overlap such that only the greatest value is essentially applied. Whichever does most is the one factored. Actually what is the definition of shred anyways

I looked up on another board post some one wrote:

Armor Penetration is a buff that lets a single champion do more damage to anyone with armor. Armor Reduction is a debuff that makes a single champion take more damage from physical damage.

This accurate? Shred is neither of those... Its purely based on a champion kit and cannot stack with other champion shreds. Whereas armor pen and % pen can stack, correct?

Also why doesn't item 3135 not work differently? I feel like the reasons justifying voidstsff could just as well work in favour of this suggestion.

Renaille1 votes

{quoted}

Tbh its not uncommon that I face champions with over 100 magic resits. In which case % would work better.

Then buy a void staff. Mages are supposed to struggle with tanks who stack magic resist, they aren't supposed to have someone else buy an item that solves their problems/

This accurate? Shred is neither of those... Its purely based on a champion kit and cannot stack with other champion shreds. Whereas armor pen and % pen can stack, correct?

Armour Reduction is another way to say Armour Shred. Armour Reduction/shred from champion abilities does stack, If Jarvan Q's a tank and then Renekton uses empowered E on the same tank, their armour will be reduced by jarvan's Q and then by Renekton's E.

My Anime Waifu1 votes

To be frank, MR stacking is simply nowhere near as effective as armor stacking, usually stemming from the fact that the ADC will become far too strong versus the tank if they don't build enough armor. If Black Cleaver gives % armor shred for the purpose of helping versus insane amounts of Armor stacking, then there would be no need to shred insane amount of MR. Really, when's the last time you've seen someone buy more MR than Merc Treads and Banshee's or Spirit Visage?

Denims Wrath6661 votes

they need to add a mr mana item again... i know what you're thinking on this... why buffRyze ... but consider this. penis. hah got you thinking about dix now didnt i. ANYWAYS seriously though, a new mana mr item would be sick like old item 3102 but a less broken passive.

More from Gameplay

More by LilxPaprika