The coin buffs honestly aren't very good

Shadow Hazard·Jun 29, 2017·3 votes·556 views

Knowing that spellthiefs will be likely the next item to be looked at for getting a nerf it is slowly heading to the point of relic shield line being the best if spellthief line is nerfed out of usefulness.

Right now the clear popularity of spellthief is that on top of being basically the only choice for APC supports, it is the clear superior option for enchanter supports. Outside of trying to tune coin up and inversely tune spellthief down constantly, why not simply re-tune coin to be more distinctly favorable for enchanters.

14 Comments

maxaroni118Jun 29, 20172 votes

tbh idek what u use coin for? what champions now take coin over spellthiefs?

rtbf221651412Jun 29, 20172 votes

{quoted}

tbh idek what u use coin for? what champions now take coin over spellthiefs?

Rakan...

And Rakan...

Did I mention Rakan?

But that is about it. lul

Shadow HazardJun 29, 20171 votes

Exactly. Seeing the way it was re-tuned in the tank update I think they heavily desired it for it to be for enchanters, and objectively it wasn't bad, but athene's vastly obvious synergy with spellthief line makes coin in comparison seem useless. relic shield champ have many options to go for, APC supports generally go with stacking bigger AP items after finishing their tier 3 spellthief item, and athene's makes spellthief not only the vastly superior option on enchanters, but coin's stat outside of the quest is pretty useless on enchanters.

AvienalJun 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shadow Hazard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WkfAVHrQ,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-06-29T17:49:00.070+0000)

Exactly. Seeing the way it was re-tuned in the tank update I think they heavily desired it for it to be for enchanters, and objectively it wasn't bad, but athene's vastly obvious synergy with spellthief line makes coin in comparison seem useless. relic shield champ have many options to go for, APC supports generally go with stacking bigger AP items after finishing their tier 3 spellthief item, and athene's makes spellthief not only the vastly superior option on enchanters, but coin's stat outside of the quest is pretty useless on enchanters.

Pretty much, for champions that aren't going to be super aggressive on pokes(to prioritize the advantage of gold gained by attacking enemy champions and turrets) but aren't tankie and melee harassers(Alistar), ones who would fit more into slight harass but strong 'support' effects tend to fit better.

Granted unless Rakan got changes to allow relic shield to work on him, then yeah, ancient coin is basically the only way he can go. But i always found some supports like Soraka to make fine use of to have constant mana for Q harass and QW heals on allies. Which a spell thief, especially in its later version is not going to help much in that regard, beyond maybe the advantage of item 3092 's active. Where getting one of your skill points alot sooner will be more useful then a small burst of move speed when you proc the effect.

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

rtbf221651412Jun 29, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Pretty much, for champions that aren't going to be super aggressive on pokes(to prioritize the advantage of gold gained by attacking enemy champions and turrets) but aren't tankie and melee harassers(Alistar), ones who would fit more into slight harass but strong 'support' effects tend to fit better.

Granted unless Rakan got changes to allow relic shield to work on him, then yeah, ancient coin is basically the only way he can go. But i always found some supports like to make fine use of to have constant mana for Q harass and QW heals on allies. Which a spell thief, especially in its later version is not going to help much in that regard, beyond maybe the advantage of 's active. Where getting one of your skill points alot sooner will be more useful then a small burst of move speed when you proc the effect.

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Soraka can go Spellthiefs, but she would also need Stoneborn pact and an aggressive ADC.

item 2301 / item 3092 item 2045 , item 3504

Basically it becomes a kill lane. Problem is that it is mid-late game to see the effects. You want to Prioritize CDR, HP, and AP.

FireDrizzleJun 29, 20171 votes

Another problem is mana, no? They just buffed the mana coin drops.

rtbf221651412Jun 29, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Another problem is mana, no? They just buffed the mana coin drops.

Nope. She doesn't have much mana problems. That usually happens if you are healing too much or spamming skills without hitting them. You are also relying on RNG based on that comment. Bad idea. Even the Spellthiefs has more mana regeneration and reliable mana regeneration than coin.

The thing coin is good for on Soraka is not a Stoneborn Pact build, but a healing build. That is because of the health regeneration. On a Stoneborn pact build, you focus on getting your Q lands. The supportive AP makes up for no health regeneration because you will be maxing Q and W first. W mainly for your Q synergy, not for healing your adc. You are also forced to build ardent with Stoneborn Pact. With that you have 100% mana regeneration already. You don't necessarily want ardent with Jhin . This is why it is a situational build.

FireDrizzleJun 29, 20171 votes

I could try less hard to poke with Q, but spamming it in lane has worked most of the time for me. I'm not really relying on RNG, the item's always keeps my mana up.

I assumed stoneborn wouldnt be worth on ranged champs. I suppose its to abuse Ardent censor with Q. The item is op so this is making sense actually.

rtbf221651412Jun 29, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I could try less hard to poke with Q, but spamming it in lane has worked most of the time for me. I'm not really relying on RNG, the item's always keeps my mana up.

Problem is the team fights aspect. You won't have minions dying around you if you are fighting via baron, dragon, jungle team fights, and etc. As was said, it's a mid-late game thing.

Also, as you have brought up, ardent procs off stoneborn which is proc'd off the Q. -The Q also synergizes well with W and her Q will heal her more. So you have multiple things going on here.

-Fixed because my description ability factually incorrect.

420 gramsJun 29, 20172 votes

Plus doesn't The completed sightstone item it builds into only give like 200 hp? That's basically nothing.

Shadow HazardJun 29, 20173 votes

actually both the EotW and EotO both have 200 health it is the tank ones that have more for obvious reasons.

FireDrizzleJun 29, 20173 votes

Eye of the watchers has AP though, so it's decent since the buff it got. item 3069 should get a stat buff too, obviously 45 armour doesnt compare to 500/450 hp item 2303 item 3401 ( . We know 75 hp is worth more than 10 armour despite having the same "gold value".

Shadow HazardJun 29, 20171 votes

Oh I agree. I was just pointing out that both the non tank eye items run with 200 health. I also heavily agree that the coin item need a vastly better unique stat than health regen which the relic items already offer. I made a post before about comprehensive changed to all the support items that had a suggestion of just that among tweaks to the other 2 lines of items to make all the support lines stat offers roughly more equal with each other.