Just played a game with Zed

LegitBacon66·Jan 5, 2017·12 votes·1,541 views

I am a zed main. I have played him for a long time. I would say I am decent but I still do boosted as shit as usual. Anyways to the point. I picked Zed, enemy Ahri takes exhaust.... Already half my dueling power gone... Later she builds a zhonyas > my ult is useless. Rest of the game I had no window to get a kill. When I did, guess what? Exhausted. Instantly exhausted and I was negated entirely. Then I switched targets to the ADC (obviously when teamfights start). Who was their ADC? VAyne. Every time I went to her. She would ult or condemn me in some random direction and game over. It disappoints me that Zed is in this state let alone ALL assassins except the few exceptional ones.

43 Comments

hunterspecJan 5, 20176 votes

good. zed is a piece of shit and should stay a piece of shit.

MissMikasaJan 8, 20171 votes

I agree ^^

VoidStaresBackJan 5, 20174 votes

What I'm reading is that you got counterpicked and counterbuilt, honestly. Vayne is a great duelist who can peel for herself, so she has a natural advantage against assassins, and Ahri is a highly mobile mage who can roam as well as you can and can build Zhonya's to nullify your ultimate and who intelligently chose their summoner spells to reduce your all-in potential. These are things that have existed for a long time, while assassins may be in a bad state right now this particular game is a poor example of that.

DreadlocksJan 5, 201711 votes

What I'm reading is that you got counterpicked and counterbuilt

Which isn't hard to do.

LegitBacon66Jan 5, 20172 votes

Zed and Ahri match up was fine in season 5. I saw it in lcs. And exhaust wasn't that strong

VoidStaresBackJan 5, 20173 votes

Exhaust hasn't been changed since mid season 4, it's been exactly this strong for a while.

Jaygo41Jan 5, 20173 votes

Fucking lmao ^

"You got counterbuilt" = "You got exhaust taken against you. You're screwed"

People irrationally hate assassins because they get liquified by them and then rationalize them getting screwed by a summoner because it suits their vindictive attitude toward the class as a whole.

Exhaust is bullshit, plain and simple. It shreds FLAT armor and MR. Are you kidding? It's supposed to be a burst mitigation tool, not a free serrated dirk. It lowers DAMAGE AND ATTACK speed, both which compound each other to result in very little damage dealt. Then your move speed is gutted. Literally the most loaded summoner in the game.

VoidStaresBackJan 5, 20173 votes

The "counterbuilding" I was referring to was the zhonya's, not the exhaust, that was separate.

Exhaust is kind of strange right now and probably will (and should) get nerfed, but one of the points you made there is utterly irrelevant to most assassins: only the damage debuff really matters to most assassins, since a lot of them only use one or two autoattacks to begin with so the AS debuff doesn't really matter to them.

Regardless, even if it were purely damage mitigation and maybe a slow, it would still have the same effect in this lane as it did here, since as long as Zed's burst is mitigated Ahri can take him down at her leisure. So the overloadedness or lack thereof of exhaust isn't really relevant here.

hunterspecJan 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The "counterbuilding" I was referring to was the zhonya's, not the exhaust, that was separate.

Exhaust is kind of strange right now and probably will (and should) get nerfed, but one of the points you made there is utterly irrelevant to most assassins: only the damage debuff really matters to most assassins, since a lot of them only use one or two autoattacks to begin with so the AS debuff doesn't really matter to them.

Regardless, even if it were purely damage mitigation and maybe a slow, it would still have the same effect in this lane as it did here, since as long as Zed's burst is mitigated Ahri can take him down at her leisure. So the overloadedness or lack thereof of exhaust isn't really relevant here.

uh no it should not get nerfed. if it got nerfed even more cry baby bitches would cry about assassins and vayne 1v5 entire teams.

RalanrJan 5, 20171 votes

IMO it shouldn't have resistance shred.

Divine WindsJan 9, 20171 votes

IMO I think the movement speed and resistance shred is overdoing it. Is making you a cannon minion not enough?

hunterspecJan 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

IMO I think the movement speed and resistance shred is overdoing it. Is making you a cannon minion not enough?

I didn't know it lasted for 2 minutes. my bad.

Divine WindsJan 9, 20171 votes

But getting exhausted in the middle of the fight usually means you sit colorblind for about a minute.

hunterspecJan 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

But getting exhausted in the middle of the fight usually means you sit colorblind for about a minute.

so should we also take away cc as well? or give all adc's a built in qss on a 10 second cd? would that make you feel better so that you as vayne can obliterate the enemy team.

Divine WindsJan 9, 20171 votes

I'm not saying to remove the damage reduction. can you read? I think the movement speed and resistance shred is overdoing, since when is resistance shred going to be useful? Against vayne? Who builds 0 resistance? The attack speed slow and damage reduction is enough already.

Troll for TrumpJan 5, 20171 votes

What I'm reading is that you got counterpicked and counterbuilt, honestly

What can the assassin player do in responce to this?

You can't stop them from getting Zhonyas or taking exhaust. You can't stop them from picking Vayne or Ahri(Bans are a thing, but you get the idea; you either have 0 or 1 ban(s), and you won't ban every single champ that has an anti-zed mechanic)

DemainaNyxJan 5, 20172 votes

{quoted}

What can the assassin player do in responce to this?

You can't stop them from getting Zhonyas or taking exhaust. You can't stop them from picking Vayne or Ahri(Bans are a thing, but you get the idea; you either have 0 or 1 ban(s), and you won't ban every single champ that has an anti-zed mechanic)

Maybe stop picking assassins all the time regardless of what the enemy team picks.

If you watch LCS, you'll notice that you rarely see assassins there because they are easily countered by items (Zhonyas) and summoner spells (Exhaust) and are a feast or famine type champion whereas mages are generally safer picks. In solo queue you don't have that level of synergy so you can get away with playing an assassin 90% of the time because some mid or ADC is going to go off alone at some point and that's your opportunity. Complaining about that 10% where the enemy outplays you seems off.

Troll for TrumpJan 5, 20171 votes

So why is it fair that every other class can be picked more in any game, while assassins are the only class that are super specific?

DemainaNyxJan 8, 20171 votes

Because that's the point of an assassin, to be that one person who can get into a team, kill the important person, and get out. Victor can't do that. Sure he'll blow up an ADC if he gets in range, but he's most likely not going to survive the rest of the team murdering him after, whereas a Zed can pop Edge of Night and Youmuu's into a team, ult the ADC, Q, and then R back to safety, maybe needing to blow flash in the rare case.

If the enemy team has a Galio/Malz/Urgot, picking Zed into that just seems like suicide to me unless you buy a QSS. Picking Zed into Kayle/Kindred/Taric most likely means whoever you ult is going to get Kayle/Kindred/Taric ulted, though you might get your burst off first if you are lucky. If you bother ulting Ekko when his ult is up you should expect it to get negated.

There are so many people who assassins are good against, like basically any Runaan's ADC, that complaining about the one time you couldn't insta gib someone is just off.

Troll for TrumpJan 8, 20171 votes

There are so many people who assassins are good against, like basically any Runaan's ADC, that complaining about the one time you couldn't insta gib someone is just off.

At this point mages and ADCs do the same thing assassins can do, but better.

PrahiJan 5, 20173 votes

Agreed, and with ahri if zed ults you, you kinda just dash away so the ulti just pops and doesn't do any damage.

LegitBacon66Jan 5, 20172 votes

EXACTLY

Divine WindsJan 9, 20171 votes

ahri trades ults with you. I think that's fair.

WorksAtAGayBarJan 5, 20174 votes

I don't understand what's so wrong about this? She wasted her ult to get away from yours.

hunterspecJan 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand what's so wrong about this? She wasted her ult to get away from yours.

yeah and the ult cd is astronomical for ahri

bloodforblood21Jan 5, 20172 votes

well i can show you a couple of things https://www.leaguecoaching.gg/coach.php?id=75451

Titanium70Jan 5, 20172 votes

That could sound a little biased now... but keep in mind I played alot of Talon and Kha some time ago.

Assassin: The High-Risk High-Reward Class - either snowball early and end the game fast or dont and be a burden to your team. That's how this class is suppoed to work. NOT win the lane by default and than be still usefull in late. (that's OP and that's why Zed shout 'hi' to Kassa in terms of Bannrate). But that's also quite toxic and the reason the whole IDEA of an Assassin is dangerous in any PVP game.

Riot now reworked Assassins and they did a good job for most. If I see a Talon OP and Talon UP post on the same page, that's a pretty good sign the rework was good. (which it really was).

Now we have Zed: The arguably worst offender in the Assassin Class. He got barely touched because Riot still belives his Kit is good designed. All he got were a bunch of Nerfs from any direction. A cheap Zhonyas, the AD-Itemization, the Leathality. Sadly Zeds Kit is not good designed. He shares to much abilities with classes not even close to an Assassin, while still having this Ult and Energy. It's a Kit whch is either broken or weak. You dont give an ADC Tank stats. Aou dont give a Support an ADCs Range. You dont give an ADCaster Energy and an Assassins Ultimate.

BTW: Zed is still viable - the both I met recently made my respectives cry. But the first said hi to fed Ezreal with Gauntlet. And the second was unable to translate KDA into objectives, allowing the game to get to long and loosing because of it. Once again with Eze - this time unfed, but hey I bought your favorite Item (as 4th?5th?) Zhonyas.

MissMikasaJan 8, 20172 votes

Zed deserves to be at the bottom of the pile, since he was Riot's playboy for so long and kept so fucking strong for almost all of last season. Stop crying and learn to play other champions for once please.

LegitBacon66Jan 8, 20171 votes

Yeah fuck me right. I should just abandon a champion that I put 2 years of my league time into.

MissMikasaJan 8, 20171 votes

Well yeah because that's how League works. Some champs get strong, others are average, weak, mediocre, etc. The meta shifts to where some champs just aren't good to play in and then time goes by and a new meta comes where they can shine again. With me I've learned in normals I loved to main Diana and other mid laners but in ranked I had to swallow my pride and main support because it's my best role, and the best way for me to climb, which means I had to stop playing champions I loved.

Grow up and learn to play others. You can have more than one main champion, it's not like you have to be a one trick pony. Good Lord.

LegitBacon66Jan 9, 20171 votes

I do have other mains. But when I invest my IP and RP in the entire assassin class, it is suffering.

MissMikasaJan 9, 20171 votes

That's your problem there. You invest everything into a class that isn't that entirely strong, and fall late game since they aren't meant for team fighting, and ones who get problematic get the nerf bat. You need to learn all types of champions so you can have experience with them if your favorite is nerfed to dumpster tier or if they are banned.

LegitBacon66Jan 9, 20171 votes

My other mains: Yasuo Zac Ekko LeeSin

Also, Zed is one of my favorites (which is biased obivously). However, is deeming a class completely irrelevant a proper goal of a rework? Their weakness is team fighting of course, they excel at 1v1, but when they can't excel at 1v1 anymore or 1v2 with mobility like Zed, then theres an issue because of summoner 3

MissMikasaJan 9, 20171 votes

Yasuo is pick or ban, and if he isn't, good luck trying to get him before your turn to pick. Zac isn't that bad but Vi and Lee are also heavily picked and banned, and Ekko doesn't do well against certain team comps.

You need more. More different types of champions- tanks, fighters, supports, adcs, mages, etc. Learn other roles too in case you get autofilled.

It's not a proper rework if they do that, I'll say but Zed can still 1v1 really easily. Exhaust comes with the territory, you just have to know when it's down and abuse that time frame.

bbQsauçeJan 5, 20171 votes

[deleted]

Chimp JokerJan 5, 20171 votes

: ^)

ApexInTheCircleJan 5, 20171 votes

It's not just Zed, it's most ad assassins that aren't rengar or khazix.

AMYS GRAVEJan 5, 20171 votes

Later she builds a zhonyas > my ult is useless

Clearly it was a 1v1 game, and you had no other targets to ult.

JoeMGJan 5, 20171 votes

I'm actually glad Zed is in a weaker state right now - I always found him fun but didn't want to play him when he was OP :) That being said Ahri has always been obnoxious and I really think item 3157 needs a longer cooldown. Not just for Zed but it's annoying for any assassin when we have about a 10 sec window between when our ult is up their invincibility is up again.

MissMikasaJan 8, 20171 votes

Are you for real? Zhonya's active is 120 seconds the whole game- meanwhile Zed's ult is 120/100/80 plus add CDR and he can ult any person with Zhonyas late game more than once while the active is down. And other assassins have much longer than 10 seconds between fights to abuse the cooldown on it.

Honestly it does not need a longer cooldown, and even then the nerf from 90 seconds to 120 was complete bullshit and not needed. It was way overboard. I'd say bump it up to 100 from 90 but not a whole fucking 30 seconds.

God RaijinJan 9, 20171 votes

don't forget all the item 3190 s Janna s running around

420 gramsJan 9, 20171 votes

You just got outplayed. You didn't take in account she had exhaust. You didn't take advantage with your summoner spells while exhaust was on cool down. With vayne you didn't ult to go untargetable to avoid her condemn.