Can we redesign Swain please?

WoonStruck··3 votes·390 views

There's no reason he should win match-ups just because he has a point-and-click damage amp that does a lot of damage on its own. Because all he needs is E for damage, this means if you decide to engage on him, he's just going to peel for himself and throw more dots on you while kiting you and healing.

If you don't engage on him you either aren't farming, or eating his E over and over. If your jungler can't afford to neglect other lanes for a while, there's not much that can be done about it.

Either E's range needs to be lowered so he's more at risk for using it, its mana cost needs to go up, or his entire kit has to be re-adjusted around his Q or W.

As far as Q or W go, you lower his E base damage (via removing pure base damage or the amplifier) but give him an amplifier on Q or W instead as compensation This makes it so he has to either land his snare or keep them in his Q. Personally, I would put it on Q since its similar to E, just people can walk out of it, albeit while slowed.

Its really stupid how on many champs you can't even farm because you'll just take another E for 1/3 of your health, even if he's opting for a catalyst start...There's nothing you can do against it unless you can have a champ with long-range wave-clear. Your damage is supposed to suffer for an investment like that, and it doesn't at all as Swain atm.

11 Comments

Bonipherus3 votes

Swain will probably be coming up on the rework list sometime next year. Most likely after Warwick.

WoonStruck2 votes

{quoted}

Swain will probably be coming up on the rework list sometime next year. Most likely after Warwick.

If I remember, they said he wasn't getting touched for a long time, even though they don't like how he is now. Probably the same indefinite amount of time as Irelia.

Nanuk Pihoqahiak2 votes

Swain has a terrible time counterpushing and has to actually build items to make up for his crippling (Yes, actually crippling) mana costs. Yes, his passive restores mana, but that doesn't help him in combat against another player. He has actual weaknesses for a character that can only really lane bully.

WoonStruck2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nanuk Pihoqahiak,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WjqXKVyl,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-18T03:04:56.618+0000)

Swain has a terrible time counterpushing and has to actually build items to make up for his crippling (Yes, actually crippling) mana costs. Yes, his passive restores mana, but that doesn't help him in combat against another player. He has actual weaknesses for a character that can only really lane bully.

Only his ult and W have significant costs. I wouldn't call 85 at rank 5 for his most powerful ability 'crippling' when its his entire harass pattern. He only spends mana if he's forced to sustain, push, or going in for a kill.

Nanuk Pihoqahiak2 votes

100 mana for Q. 120 for W. 85 for E. And his ult has a scaling mana cost as you continue to use it. Those are higher than the average mage's mana costs.

WoonStruck2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nanuk Pihoqahiak,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WjqXKVyl,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-18T03:57:56.650+0000)

100 mana for Q. 120 for W. 85 for E. And his ult has a scaling mana cost as you continue to use it. Those are higher than the average mage's mana costs.

But his laning uses none of them except E. The only reason you ever use Q, W, or R is if someone engages on you or if you spammed E on them enough and they refuse to leave lane. 90% of Swain's issues lie in how over-loaded his E is by itself in addition to it multiplying the rest of his kit. If E were modified or reworked, they could make Swain much more usable without even having to rework him.

Nanuk Pihoqahiak2 votes

As someone who used to play a lot of Swain, he isn't killing you with just his E alone. Yeah, it's decent poke. But it's not going to win the lane on its own.

mogonk2 votes

You're complaining about a champion that has a <50% win rate.

smh, smh

WoonStruck2 votes

{quoted}

You're complaining about a champion that has a <50% win rate.

smh, smh

I won the game. I have problems with his laning pattern. Its unhealthy and part of the reason he'll never have his late game buffed even though everything about him screams late game.

Paladin 0f Life2 votes

I think you got wrecked by a good swain. As an old swain main i promise you it is hard as balls to carry with swain against most team comps. You went a squish champ against swain and are butt hurt. lesson learned go tanky

WoonStruck2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Paladin 0f Life,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WjqXKVyl,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-02-18T03:21:55.348+0000)

I think you got wrecked by a good swain. As an old swain main i promise you it is hard as balls to carry with swain against most team comps. You went a squish champ against swain and are butt hurt. lesson learned go tanky

Actually, no I didn't go a squishy champ. Swains aren't 'good.' If they outrange you with E, you lose lane. Simple as that. He didn't land a single W on me, so saying he's 'good' is really unintelligible.

I ended up winning that game because I roamed and just counter-pushed when he got near T2 turret, which he was too afraid to force.

I just have problems with him being able to force several different champions out of lane just by using E off CD and many champions being unable to reliably punish him for it. Even with almost 100 MR and some bonus HP on top it took over 20% of my HP. If he had to use Q or W, okay. But its just point-and-click E, which doesn't cost very much mana. You recover more than 1/4 of its cost by the time its off CD. But no, you're right. That Swain was 'skilled' with his lack of map presense, inability to force objectives with a lead, land W at all, use TP effectively. Definitely skilled when I had more map presense without TP.

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