Evelynn = Fulfil a bunch of conditions for Mediocrity

ExternalLink··67 votes·2,942 views

Gimmicks galore. Charm is counter-intuitive to your stealth. If you use it you broadcast that you're in the vicinity and have to wait 2.5 seconds to get any real use out of it. Don't use it and...wow, look at that, I only have three abilities !! Your Q is trash if you don't land the first portion of it on your intended target, and even if you do land it the whole artillery burst thing is a bit weird on a champion with minimal sticking potential and telegraphed attack patterns. Your stealth detection is, for some reason, larger than it was pre-rework, even though you only get access to stealth at level 6 now. Uhm...am I missing something? It also has little to no synergy with any of her other abilities. Before, from stealth, you could W out and basically appear within striking distance of your target in a split moment. That felt good. Before, from stealth, you could flank and sit in wait...and then strike with R. Leaving your enemies as sitting ducks as you suddenly appear behind them. That felt good. Now your two options are to A - advertise that you're coming with W and hope that your opponent is too pre-occupied, or mentally impaired, to make use of the unfair amount of counterplay to escape, or B - drop some eye of the needle crap with Q... You hit the snipe on Q? Uhm, congratulations, you now do somewhat respectable levels of damage...but you still have no lock down or sticking power. You miss it? Say bye to your damage and your life, as you're now un-stealthed, likely behind enemies lines, and within the kill range of 90% of champions. Your R blink might have saved you...if not for it's two minute cooldown and incredibly long windup time...because remember, an ADC literally has a better version of your ability...

Problem with Evelynn is that the only reward that she gets for using her abilities correctly is that she becomes...a decent champion. That's it. You might even have to add a somewhat in there.

You have to use your R when the enemy is low on health and has no further access to heals, dashes or shields...otherwise you've just taken yourself out of the fight and have no way to get back in, or you've traded a 2 minute cooldown for a rather underwhelming escape. You have to hit the first portion of Q on your priority target or you won't do any damage. You have to already be in melee range to use a dash that barely does any damage to squishies. You have to fulfil a bunch of conditions on your W for effects that other champions (Elise?) have easier access to, otherwise you've just proced one of the weakest slows in the game, or you've really resigned yourself to only have three abilities. You have to deal with a bunch of long cast animations on the assassin with the weakest sticking power in the game... You have to deal with the fact that your stealth doesn't really aid you in combat because your kit lacks the inbuilt tools necessary to really capitalise on the benefits of stealth. What I mean by this is that Rengar can jump on you - boom. Twitch can pop out, slow you, and nuke you as you attempt to walk away. Talon can simply remove you from existence once his stealth ends but eve...? Eve just gets to throw out a free surprise Q...and then has to walk towards you.

87 Comments

ExternalLink10 votes

Most the time I use Evelynn's ult I end up feeling like I just played myself. .-.

Cosmic Warper9 votes

Unfortunately riot loves to do this to assassins now to make their burst as conditional as possible. They went overboard with not wanting easy one shots, but at this point it's so difficult for assassins to even execute their combo that they are only good if they have a supplementary gimmick to help them in some other way.

YuGiHo8 votes

Ive been saying this here, the pbe boards, and on redit. Eve should not have to jump through burning rings of fire to do what she needs to do as an assassin. Ive already been seeing tank eves going around being actually successful because the champion does not work as shes was designed to.

Champion Skin1 votes

Ive already been seeing tank eves going around being actually successful

Well I suppose that's one way she is able to stick around for 2.5 seconds to proc that charm and it also reduce MR by up to 35% and her E does deal % max HP damage

YuGiHo4 votes

they rush visage and dead mans in think

flibitydoo7 votes

new Q I guarantee is being balanced around the new stormraider's surge (the movespeed keystone)

current live trigger is "deal 30% of target's max health" PBE pre-season trigger is "hit enemy 3 times (just like thunderlords)"

ExternalLink19 votes

{quoted}

new Q I guarantee is being balanced around the new stormraider's surge (the movespeed keystone)

current live trigger is "deal 30% of target's max health" PBE pre-season trigger is "hit enemy 3 times (just like thunderlords)"

In that case it's really just doubling down on 'fulfilling conditions for mediocrity.' Without a meaningful movement speed steroid or gapcloser she feels underwhelming. With it...she'd be normal I guess?

YuGiHo13 votes

right, the champion should be able to work without a keystone/rune being mandatory to them functioning as a champion

Ralanr7 votes

The problem is that they can become overbearing with a particular rune or keystone if they aren’t balanced in accordance to it or it isn’t balanced in accordance to them.

To give an example: Yasuo and Tryndamere with release Warlords bloodlust.

Lord Malpercio1 votes

{quoted}

The problem is that they can become overbearing with a particular rune or keystone if they aren’t balanced in accordance to it or it isn’t balanced in accordance to them.

To give an example: Yasuo and Tryndamere with release Warlords bloodlust.

https://i.gyazo.com/d8b31848682b5726ca31b3357dec8a32.mp4

I know -exactly- what you mean.

ExternalLink1 votes

{quoted}

The problem is that they can become overbearing with a particular rune or keystone if they aren’t balanced in accordance to it or it isn’t balanced in accordance to them.

To give an example: Yasuo and Tryndamere with release Warlords bloodlust.

The problem is that a lot of champions will probably synergise with the new keystone better than Eve will.

Glory ln Death3 votes

Predator.

Thryale1 votes

right, I think riot is focusing too much on how it feels to play against a champ than how it feels to play as a champ.

First and foremost how it feels to play a champ should always take priority. This is because any champ in the hands of a skilled player will always feel frustrating to play against. That's just league. It's up to the players to adapt.

I understand you don't want a champ to consistently feel oppressive, but that should not be the key focus when designing the champ. The key focus should be how good it feels to play the champ when you play it well.

Glory ln Death7 votes

The only real issue with Eve at the moment is that she was designed in a Season 8 environment, but released in Season 7. Once Preseason comes around, she will become a very different champion.

Xavanic7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Glory ln Death,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WehQ0hEr,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2017-10-20T17:46:04.242+0000)

The only real issue with Eve at the moment is that she was designed in a Season 8 environment, but released in Season 7. Once Preseason comes around, she will become a very different champion.

She was still very shitty on the pbe with the new runes

Glory ln Death7 votes

Yes, I can imagine that the 75% Bronze, 20% Silver, 5% click-bait Youtuber population of the PBE did very poorly playing Eve ADC.

Xavanic6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Glory ln Death,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WehQ0hEr,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2017-10-20T18:43:36.016+0000)

Yes, I can imagine that the 75% Bronze, 20% Silver, 5% click-bait Youtuber population of the PBE did very poorly playing Eve ADC.

Shes terrible, just play jungle twitch instead, it feels stronger and viable

Lùmen2 votes

I want to agree with you but I'm really skeptical about her state when preseason comes, still

Linna Excel1 votes

I think some of her issues revolve around not having the right runes. That said, I believe there are deeper issues pulling her gameplay apart.

Rebonack5 votes

The core problem with Eve is her new W. Riot reworked her the first time because hard CC and stealth don't mix well. And if you DO mix them, then your only options are to make it feel like ass to play as (new Eve) or ass to play against (OLD old Eve). The Charm forced her kit to be a complete clusterfuck. Riot should admit they cocked up the whole thing, remove her W, and try something else.

Linna Excel5 votes

Yeah, this is something I find really weird. She had a stun at one time, but that was too good because of the stealth so she lost it. Why take a risk and mix the two again? Even worse I feel like they've sabotaged both to keep them in on the kit.

This is why I suggested riot pick stealth or charm and then focus on that one thing.

Rebonack4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WehQ0hEr,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-10-20T16:38:50.643+0000)

Yeah, this is something I find really weird. She had a stun at one time, but that was too good because of the stealth so she lost it. Why take a risk and mix the two again? Even worse I feel like they've sabotaged both to keep them in on the kit.

This is why I suggested riot pick stealth or charm and then focus on that one thing.

Total agreement there.

Either keep the charm or keep the stealth.

Honestly, stealth made more sense on old Eve, lorewise. She was the most expensive hired dagger on the continent for good reason, her ability to get anywhere unseen.

New Eve though... it really doesn't make a great deal of sense. She WANTS people to see her so she can charm them and then murder them. That's her whole thing.

I would prefer a stealth skirmisher Eve. Riot seems to want a Mage/Assassin thing.

Ambient Snow4 votes

Only thing i don't like is the Telegraph from the charm.

personally feel riot needs to remove it, i don't see the point of the " let me tell you where i'm at" mechanic of the ability, i mean seriously you have to be pretty much on top of them to E and Q pulls you out of Stealth so, why do we have to tell them where we are again?

Linna Excel2 votes

Riot can't remove it. It needs to be there so her stealth with CC has counterplay.

BerylCrab3 votes

wait, people care about evelynn?

Xavanic25 votes

{quoted}

wait, people care about evelynn?

Yeah, she was one of my go to junglers pre rework, now shes garbo

BerylCrab3 votes

ah well i can't say i agree with you, but i do understand, i miss old sion and taric before they deleted them from the game too. If it makes you feel better, im about ready to quit this game altogether because i have recently come to realize that it is rigged and completely garbage.

Xavanic5 votes

{quoted}

ah well i can't say i agree with you, but i do understand, i miss old sion and taric before they deleted them from the game too. If it makes you feel better, im about ready to quit this game altogether because i have recently come to realize that it is rigged and completely garbage.

New taric and sion are actually viable though (sion being one of the strongest tops in the game now) new eve isnt viable, shes garbage

BerylCrab1 votes

{quoted}

New taric and sion are actually viable though (sion being one of the strongest tops in the game now) new eve isnt viable, shes garbage

Eh, i mean viable and fun to play aren't the same thing.

Xavanic4 votes

{quoted}

Eh, i mean viable and fun to play aren't the same thing.

Full ad or ap sion are still funny as hell to play (ever sit in a bush and charge a q while the enemy squishy is walking by? its funny watching them panic flash once they just lost 75% of their health bar and randomly got knocked up)

BerylCrab1 votes

{quoted}

Full ad or ap sion are still funny as hell to play (ever sit in a bush and charge a q while the enemy squishy is walking by? its funny watching them panic flash once they just lost 75% of their health bar and randomly got knocked up)

And then still get away because sion is only good if he has someone to help him. All he has is a bunch of zoning tools and a mediocre engage. at least in plat elo.

Durzaka6 votes

Youre calling him bad, and yet he has the 9th highest win rate of all top laners in plat+

The Yetii Rider3 votes

Alright, so this whole discussion seems to be based on the idea that Evelynn should be stronger now than she was before, when she was plenty strong before. Whew.

Let's think about this here:

Evelynn is an assassin. Assassins have recently lost their main identity as burst champions and are now squishy divers who have the ability to escape a fight after they get a kill (in theory).

Evelynn has the ability to ignore sight wards. This is something everyone seems to forget when discussing her. She is toxic cancer nonsense and there is no way to protect yourself from being ganked by her other than to play completely passively, which is not a playstyle Riot intends to support (despite the rise of Coin, I know).

Riot has reworked champions with the intention of nerfing them several times in the past. Most recently is Maokai, and to prove it they constantly nerfed everything about him after the rework to make certain he couldn't do anything right. Before that, there was Master Yi, Olaf, Evelynn (yes, this is her second time being nerfed in a rework), Sona, and Draven.

Xavanic3 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WehQ0hEr,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2017-10-20T16:37:22.193+0000)

Alright, so this whole discussion seems to be based on the idea that Evelynn should be stronger now than she was before, when she was plenty strong before. Whew.

Let's think about this here:

Evelynn is an assassin. Assassins have recently lost their main identity as burst champions and are now squishy divers who have the ability to escape a fight after they get a kill (in theory).

Evelynn has the ability to ignore sight wards. This is something everyone seems to forget when discussing her. She is toxic cancer nonsense and there is no way to protect yourself from being ganked by her other than to play completely passively, which is not a playstyle Riot intends to support (despite the rise of Coin, I know).

Riot has reworked champions with the intention of nerfing them several times in the past. Most recently is Maokai, and to prove it they constantly nerfed everything about him after the rework to make certain he couldn't do anything right. Before that, there was Master Yi, Olaf, Evelynn (yes, this is her second time being nerfed in a rework), Sona, and Draven.

Eve is too weak rn though, the amount of times ive had one gank me just to turn on her and kill her....im sorry but thats pretty pathetic, and the main reason eve is weak is because she has no way to get onto someone and her E is very poorly designed (srsly, why the fuck make it a flat % ratio when her target is gonna be squishy targets) i feel she needs more range on her E to help her get onto her targets

The Yetii Rider2 votes

{quoted}

Eve is too weak rn though, the amount of times ive had one gank me just to turn on her and kill her....im sorry but thats pretty pathetic, and the main reason eve is weak is because she has no way to get onto someone and her E is very poorly designed (srsly, why the fuck make it a flat % ratio when her target is gonna be squishy targets) i feel she needs more range on her E to help her get onto her targets

Evelynn is much more difficult to play than before, so people are still learning her. And if she's weak right now she will likely be better with Locket nerfs and Runes Reforged.

Even then Eve is probably at her correct balance at around a 48% win rate.

Xavanic2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WehQ0hEr,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2017-10-20T18:50:48.894+0000)

Evelynn is much more difficult to play than before, so people are still learning her. And if she's weak right now she will likely be better with Locket nerfs and Runes Reforged.

Even then Eve is probably at her correct balance at around a 48% win rate.

Shes actually stronger on live servers then she was on the pbe, thats the problem, once the runes go live i feel her winrate will tank to 42% possibly lower....she is too squishy to be immobile and to reliant on full ap to do damage with other defensive items, if she had a bit more damage which would allow for her to run a dead mans plate then she would be alot better

The Yetii Rider2 votes

{quoted}

Shes actually stronger on live servers then she was on the pbe, thats the problem, once the runes go live i feel her winrate will tank to 42% possibly lower....she is too squishy to be immobile and to reliant on full ap to do damage with other defensive items, if she had a bit more damage which would allow for her to run a dead mans plate then she would be alot better

Stronger on live than on the PBE based on...what?

Xavanic2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WehQ0hEr,comment-id=000a0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-20T19:17:50.443+0000)

Stronger on live than on the PBE based on...what?

Based on playing her in the same average tier....i could somewhat kill ppl on pbe, on live i cant even do that

The Yetii Rider2 votes

{quoted}

Based on playing her in the same average tier....i could somewhat kill ppl on pbe, on live i cant even do that

You have no idea what skill level you were playing against, plus there was no competitive incentive to win on the PBE.

zaire902 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WehQ0hEr,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2017-10-20T18:50:48.894+0000)

Evelynn is much more difficult to play than before, so people are still learning her. And if she's weak right now she will likely be better with Locket nerfs and Runes Reforged.

Even then Eve is probably at her correct balance at around a 48% win rate.

People said that with every single one of the assassins during the preseason and even the mains who complained had valid points of the reworks just being straight nerfs new eve honestly isnt that difficult to play Ive managed to find success on her you just need to completely change ur playstyle to making picks with charms because her damage is disgustingly low unless she gets fed off of some early ganks. Only way ur killing anyone is if ur fed or if u have ult and after awhile during the midgame you still need to be careful because even if shes fed her 2.5 sec delay for charm, her reliability on a high cd ult to kill, and the low damage everywhere else means you can still get killed by an enemy at a lower lv.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

People said that with every single one of the assassins during the preseason and even the mains who complained had valid points of the reworks just being straight nerfs new eve honestly isnt that difficult to play Ive managed to find success on her you just need to completely change ur playstyle to making picks with charms because her damage is disgustingly low unless she gets fed off of some early ganks. Only way ur killing anyone is if ur fed or if u have ult and after awhile during the midgame you still need to be careful because even if shes fed her 2.5 sec delay for charm, her reliability on a high cd ult to kill, and the low damage everywhere else means you can still get killed by an enemy at a lower lv.

None of this is a problem though. Eve should have been nerfed with this rework, honestly the fact that it took them so long to rework her after they gutted pink wards is an affront to everyone in the game. Evelynn's ability to ignore trinket wards and Sight Wards is disgusting and as long as she has that the rest of her kit should remain in the trash can.

Xavanic2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WehQ0hEr,comment-id=000a0000000000010000,timestamp=2017-10-21T03:21:55.131+0000)

None of this is a problem though. Eve should have been nerfed with this rework, honestly the fact that it took them so long to rework her after they gutted pink wards is an affront to everyone in the game. Evelynn's ability to ignore trinket wards and Sight Wards is disgusting and as long as she has that the rest of her kit should remain in the trash can.

She was never that strong though, she honestly needed better scaling and now shes locked as a late game only champ

Xavanic1 votes

{quoted}

People said that with every single one of the assassins during the preseason and even the mains who complained had valid points of the reworks just being straight nerfs new eve honestly isnt that difficult to play Ive managed to find success on her you just need to completely change ur playstyle to making picks with charms because her damage is disgustingly low unless she gets fed off of some early ganks. Only way ur killing anyone is if ur fed or if u have ult and after awhile during the midgame you still need to be careful because even if shes fed her 2.5 sec delay for charm, her reliability on a high cd ult to kill, and the low damage everywhere else means you can still get killed by an enemy at a lower lv.

Making picks? everyone just groups at 10 minutes anyways since my bot generally feeds 30 kills by then

zaire901 votes

{quoted}

Making picks? everyone just groups at 10 minutes anyways since my bot generally feeds 30 kills by then

Usually I can get a few kills during laning phase and by picks I mean in smaller skirmishes in a 5 man team fight I dont even bother trying to make a pick cause its not possible

DöömFjjst1 votes

they thought Ornn was weak, look at his winrate nowOrnn

Xavanic2 votes

{quoted}

they thought Ornn was weak, look at his winrate nowOrnn

Ornn was never weak, people were just bad at using his kit (mostly due to frustrating things such as his weird e and ult), the damage buff went overboard

ExternalLink1 votes

{quoted}

they thought Ornn was weak, look at his winrate nowOrnn

Isn't his WR still sub 50%?

iPooUnicorns2 votes

She's still the Udyr of Assassins.

ACTI0NBASTARD8 votes

Except Udyr can actually catch people.

iPooUnicorns1 votes

Only for the first 10 minutes of the game.

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