Like, is it? Because it's starting to feel more like a fighting video game. Decided to watch a few gameplay videos from season 4 and while I won't attempt to put it into words, things just seem so different..Almost like League switched genres slightly
PhearBunny35 votesI feel like League is just so old of a game now, that strategy no longer exists, we are kind of just playing, knowing exactly what to do, how to play the map, and yada yada, its just second nature at this point. The reason people win or lose, doesn't seem to be skill differencials anymore, it seems to be counter comps, lack of comps, or bad judgement calls.
GigglesO19 votesI feel like League is just so old of a game now, that strategy no longer exists, we are kind of just playing, knowing exactly what to do
Yea but they removed things like being a soak tank and having no damage in doing so... Mobility is now on almost everyone, there isn't acutal back dooring where you don't take minions. Theres no real 2v1 outplays when the jungler comes. No level 1 lane swaps top and bot. No wet noodle fights.
I could go on, but I'd be here all day.
NineTailedMystic11 votesthere isn't acutal back dooring where you don't take minions.
Good.
Z3Sleeper5 votesLmao right like what? Backdoor with no minions? Bot-to-Top lane swaps? Get outta here.
THE D1C7 votesSo what you are saying is that the game doesn’t take “skill” and is determined by drafts and judgement? ... I mean I was in the USMC and I know how to shoot a rifle... But if I go hard chargin with no plan... Ima fucking die do to lack of... hmmm what’s the word for planning and judgment? Stategy?
Z3Sleeper3 votesThe 7 p's my dude.
3TWarrior2 votesit's more like they meant what Riot tried to avoid: A stat-based game. People now can just pick whatever is currently the most overpowered thing in the game to have a decent chance of winning
compare that to mind games and outplays of the original game and there lies the problem. In the modern game, you have to play against the game itself instead of playing against the opposing player.
It's a human mentality thing and it shows that there are problems in the gameplay. A similar example is in warfare. If the opponent is neither dead nor has given up, then it is only a matter of time before a threat emerges and you win or lose based more on chance, such as acts of terrorism or information which leads to the capture or end of the opposition.
League is in a similar state where it's less about what you can do and more about what someone else can't do. A chain breaks at its weakest link but a team is a group individuals capable of separate action and responses. Why then does the group break like a chain now?
Cowgirl Ed1 votesIn the modern game, you have to play against the game itself instead of playing against the opposing player.
^^^^
stone the blacks1 votesthis is why TT exists its different and if they'd change visuals id be more popular
3TWarrior1 votesit's less the visuals and more that there is no competitive for it anymore. Riot shifted all of the resources to SR, so players are less inclined to go towards the old game mode because they know there are more flaws and outdated interactions than in the up to date SR. Combine that with that players want to be compared with their peers and the overwhelming majority are involved in SR.
the same issue happened to Dominion and it was painfully lost, even if it had quite a bit more to offer than SR and even had the features Riot seems to be pushing for (fast gameplay, team-based, abundance of strategies)
Curiously, the most commonly stated complaint is always visuals, but TT and dominion look fine to me whereas the real complaints were probably: Twisted Treeline is not a money-making competitve mode like the LC games; Dominion locks you into place for a minute and a half or was it longer
To make matters worse, the less popular a mode is, the more it becomes flooded with scripted bots and the fewer players there are to make better queue times and fun experiences
Leonerdo1 votesYou realize that "counter comps, lack of comps, [and] bad judgement calls" all count as strategy, right?
And if you're "just playing", doing the exact same thing every game, then that sounds an awful lot like you're just not paying attention to the strategy anymore, or that the strategy has become second-nature to you.
Like I get it; half of the Boards is getting bored with the game because they have been playing non-stop for 3+ years. But that doesn't mean the game is getting worse. And certainly, the game would be more fun for y'all if it changed at a faster pace.
But the game hasn't gotten worse. Chill with the wide-sweeping assertions that the game is unrecognizable or w/e.
Elkington VI31 votesMost people these days (including the balance team) seem to think that all counterplay should be mechanics-based rather than centered around decision-making, so LoL becoming something akin to a fighting game isn't too far off the mark.
Blåbæret10 votesIt still has a bit of strategy left, but the game as been severely dumbed down recently thanks to the almighty balance team.
gabetheguy8 votesIt still has a bit of strategy left, but the game as been severely dumbed down recently thanks to the almighty balance team.
you seem to be forgetting that almost every fucking champ in the game was point and click exclusively in old seasons. that's not "dumbing it down". take of your nostalgia goggles.
Marshbouy2 votesI'm going to need some examples of the "dumbing down" please.
No, warding doesn't count.
DeathProfessor9 votesLoL is NRAM now, not random all mid, there is no more strategy. Before we had split pushing, giving up objectives for other objectives/trades. Now its just constant team-fights, and who has the better team-fighting just wins.
Sp33d Zer08 votesIf you think league doesn't have strategy you're playing with and against bad players.
ExternalLink22 votes[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8hP6MAEf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-03-24T16:26:22.321+0000)
If you think league doesn't have strategy you're playing with and against bad players.
True! My rank is a lot lower than it used to be. But that doesn't affect me watching High Elo streams, and there seems to be a remarkable difference between then and now.
Sp33d Zer06 votesIf you don't know why high elo players are doing what they are I can understand why it might not make sense. Back timings, freezing, roaming, faking, lane swaps, they all require strategy that isn't obvious unless you break it down
LordGeovanni12 votesI understand each and every one of these and see everything but lane swapping and fakingregularly in low elo. Back timing are hit or miss but roaming pretty consistent and so is defensive warding Freezing people love this in low elo so much they cant not do it to shove when the enemy recalls roams or dies. Some of these require strategy but none of them are strategic in that they have to be set up before hand Most of these are not decided on 3 minutes in advance and thus set up and carries their plan champions out they are 'i want to roam instant waveclears 4 waves of minions then runs down to another lane'
hhaavviikk8 votesyes the strategy is to get your ADC fed and use all 4 team members to protect them
Velasan8 votesThey are slowly focusing more on the fighting aspect than the strategy and macro aspects.
High damage and low vision just turns games into fiestas. You can have games where the entire time there wasn't anything you could actually do differently, but instead was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Went to ward the side bush and their jg was walking by doing scuttle? You're dead. Not enough wards to cover drag so you go to the pit to ward over the wall? Enemy champion hops wall and kills you, you're dead. Etc.
They've also made all these mechanics to speed up and end games too overbearing on the way the game actually plays out to the point that it's less about whether you played well as whether you got first blood tower/herald/baron at the right time or repeat infernal dragons.
All of this takes away from the individual player, because it makes your decisions matter less. If you played well, didn't feed your opponent, and tried to play a good macro game, but there weren't enough wards to keep your ally from getting caught and the enemy takes baron and you insta lose... well there was nothing you could do. Feeling useless in a game is the worst way a game can be. Especially when it's a game trying to emphasize being a hero, or in other words playing your "champion" as they go into combat. Nothing heroic about having no impact on a game because everything is cranked up to 11.
I just want to end by saying, I'm a proponent of making everything in the game viable on some level. I think the new runes did a lot to accomplish that. However, what was missed in making the attempt is that in bringing everything up you need to do so to a baseline. There is no baseline right now. Some things are still ridiculously strong and other things are just going to eat up your win rate by playing it at all. ADC's and hyper carries do so well because it's a high damage meta, and tanks do well because they are only ones who get to do also do damage, but survive more than a few seconds in combat.
As someone who even plays a hyper carry and some tank junglers it's not a fun meta even for me.
rebelprincess016 votes"its almost like its been 8 seasons and things changed in 4 years since season 4"
ExternalLink29 votes"its almost like its been 8 seasons and things changed in 4 years since season 4"
Good point, but it does feel like the genre has shifted almost entirely.
Kairoptra4 votesI mean, I feel like it is. I’m a Vel’Koz one-trick, if that tells you anything about my experience. I definitely feel like I have to plan and what-not depending upon the circumstances, but I can understand where you’re coming from. If you feel like it’s become less about strategy, that’s your experience.
Velzard of Koz4 votesNo it's turn-based card rpg.
Terozu3 votesTo be fair it was never truly a strategy game. It's technically a fighting game with strategic elements, hence the name MOBA.
It was more slow paced initially because people didn't really know how to properly play the game.
In the end it's just a giant multiplayer tower defense game.
Lauchmelder6 votes{quoted} It was more slow paced initially because people didn't really know how to properly play the game.
This is bullshit. You can't tell me the best players in the world needed 5+ seasons to learn how to play the game on a proper level. That's just a bad excuse.
Terozu4 votesUmmm they did. They're the best because they've been playing that long. And even then there's a reason high elo games are and have always been on average shorter than normal.
They knew the higher priority targets. They are able to make strategy decisions based on minute things.
Lauchmelder5 votesYes, high elo games always were shorter compared to low elo games. But games WERE longer, not because players got better but because of "muh LCS BO5s are too long." So now we have to suffer too.
Terozu3 votesThe average game length has decreased by like one or two minutes from season one to now. And thats mostly because we now start with Homeguard and Minions spawn earlier.
tubarao3125 votes[{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8hP6MAEf,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2018-03-24T23:39:37.556+0000)
This is bullshit. You can't tell me the best players in the world needed 5+ seasons to learn how to play the game on a proper level. That's just a bad excuse.
This is completely true. Atleast in relation to now.
In season 1, people were really shit at the game, diamond back then was gold now - same goes for now, maybe not to the same extent, but people keep evolving.
Now, it wasn't more slowly paced because people didn't know how to play the game, that part I do disagree with: it was more slow paced because mobility was a less prevelent thing, and combat seem way less flashy was well because 4 years ago was when the more flashy champions had just started coming out (the first ones being in 2012).
Let us also not forget that there is a placebo effect, old summoner's rift looked like shit and made the game look much more focused on strategy rather than on combat, simply because combat was hideous along with the map.
TempName748143 votesno it's definitely still a MOBA and fits every descriptor of MOBA
deadlychuck3 votesOh absolutely not! If it was, then i'd still be playing xD
Noblewind3 votesI think part of it is the average player now knows WAY more in terms of the core aspects of the game than they used to. A lot of players in Silver 5 now are freezing waves, backing at the right times, etc. I mean yes you get more that don't do these things at low elos but did this happen back when I started playing in Season 5? Hell the fuck no
Corrupt Bliss2 votesI remember playing in S3 and thinking that minions did not matter like at all. I would often die to minion aggro in lane or jungle camps and thinking "wtf I'm the hero how can these puny infidels slay me?!"
I definitely agree that players' skill level and knowledge has definitely increased. I remember when the insec for Lee Sin was first introduced, and if you could do that you straight up deserved challenjour
AMYS GRAVE3 votesNo it is not. They slowly killed off multiple strategies so that only one strategy works at any given time so no one has to think about what to do. Just engage and if you're already ahead you win, if you aren't you lose. No poke comps, no stall comps, no fun AP off builds, nothing other than snowball into deathball.
MuffledGarbage2 votesI made a similar thread asking if League should be classified as a fighting game a couple months ago personally, I'd say that League is a fighting game that has properties of a Moba in-between the fights
gabetheguy2 votes"omg I can't wail away at a tank for 5 minutes and have it not die rito wtf is this I deserve shalenjour"
Hawthorn Tree2 votesLeague is still a strategy game, but only for the front line/divers/assassins. Because, as we all know, dive needs mechanical counterplay, but peel does not.
Stupafly2 votesthis game is no RTS but its no street fighter.
You cant just button mash, but it aint rocket science
kurnubego2 votesIt's kinda interesting that such threads pop up. Months ago there was big uprising that previous 'tactic' of 'winning lane' and endlessly clashing your champion with other champions till you win is not working well enough anymore. And now you get complaints that the game is not strategic enough. So which one you want more? Fighting game where you win your lane and snowball to victory due to shear 'mechanical outplays' and stats due to increased gold, or objective oriented game, where you'll see 3 man top ganks. Because these directly compete against each other.
Leaf on Bush4 votesLack of tactics is just something they make up and you can see by the way this idea is presented, that it has absolutely nothing to back it up.
- it's starting to **feel **more like a fighting video game
- won't attempt to put it into words
- just seem so** different**
This is not even a discussion. It's just empty words. No examples, no arguments, the origial poster is just vaguely beating around the bush and gets 50 upvotes for saying NOTHING. What a great, reasonable and critically thinking community this is! Amazing!
Corrupt Bliss1 votesYour level of sarcasm and brilliance have earned my up-vote. Thanks for posting something substantive [slayer-jinx-wink]
6KEMBE4ORBA2 votesNo, not anymore.
Shrek Luigi2 votesIt feels like a fighting game simply because there is a huge reactionary/timing component to MOBAs. Many people come into this game with the impression that is more along the lines of RTS-esque competitive games like AOE2 or Starcraft, and while there are some transferable-skills to be learned from games like those (improving one's micro/macro) there are just as many things that LoL/other MOBAS apart.
I personally don't have a problem with the direction that the game is taking; the only things that tick me off, from time-to-time, are certain balancing decisions.
GritsNGravey1 votesfunny thing i see is some the bugs skins have like some of Zyra's animation skills move faster then others. Her hunting skin i think it was. Or Masked Shaco skin making it so when you go Stealth the enemy can't just hit A and see your location based off the fact that there champion will slightly move in the Direction Shaco jumped. Or how Arc Angle Verus ult's hit box is a little wider then on some of his other skins. SO i think there making it a pay to win kinda thing and over looked the way it use to be and instead are pushing to a more lets just make money kinda thing.
