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Rengar's ult should be renamed "Thrill of the zoning"

KnifeCat··76 votes·4,776 views

I mean, that's what it does now after all... So why is it still named "thrill of the hunt"? Rengar is no longer a Hunter... He's now a bruiser/fighter/tank who for the most part presses R to either zone enemies, or to engage in a skirmish/team fight.

I just think it's a little misleading. "Thrill of the hunt" is better suited for the Hunter spoken of in Rengar's new lore.

In all seriousness though. Is Rito going to address Rengar's current state ?? he's not at all the champ he is supposed to be. He's much stronger yes, but he's unfun and doesn't feel at all like a hunter/assassin. You guys said prior to the assassin update, that Rengar will remain an assassin... Well he's no longer an assassin..

His kit has knocked him out of the assassin role. Ult warns people from miles away and is better used for zoning now. The rest of his kit had to be overloaded with so much free damage (passive, crit on ult) to make up for the massive warning indicator. He has so much free damage that you can just build mainly tank and still do huge damage.. it's silly. The W heal is also better suited for a tank/bruiser.

Now i'm not calling for a revert, but i do think some serious adjustments (maybe even another rework) need to be made, to make Rengar feel like a Hunter once again..

51 Comments

Rengooo39 votes

"Thrill of the mobile ward"

DarkRitual24 votes

Thrill of the "back away from our inhibior turret"

Hunted900012 votes

I would actually like a revert, riot is starting to like these 2 hit abilites (i.e. they put it in sej's kit now too) and to be honest i feel like that never was meant for rengar in the first place. Like why give an assassin an aoe ability that is 80% of his damage in a fight. Just my opinion.

Apocyliptic10 votes

It is very sad. A champion I used to main, the first one that got me to diamond, was completely replaced with this new champion it seems. After patch 6.2, I'm not gonna lie, Rengar was always built better as a bruiser. He just lost ALL of his one shot potential after that nerf. However, he never HAD to be built as a bruiser to function properly. If you wanted, you could go assassin, and just have so much DPS that while you weren't gonna one shot the ADC per say, you still did ass loads of damage to people, especially if building crit. You could Solo Drags and baron at full build with your ravenous hydra lifesteal. It was beautiful.

Not only was he more of an "assassin" he just felt so much more satisfying to play. When people say Rengars got a high skill cap, they aren't talking about his combo. That pretty simplistic to get down, all things considered. They're talking about how much you have to calculate your damage, the gameplay awareness you need to use the ult properly, and the ability to not fall behind. His Auto resets on his Q and the ferocity Q just felt so much better to use, and much better to master.

Now if you try to build Assassin, you just blow up. His W synergizes way to well with extra health to be ignored, so you just end up buidling Cleaver and Titanic and relying on the free crit you get for no reason after you jump on someone. You turn into a diver. You have no assassination potential if the entire enemy team sees you coming, which is exactly what his new ultimate does.

Me personally, I'm asking for a revert. At least for the Ferocity Q, because that was just who rengar was. A DPS knifecat who jumped in and built glass cannon. Now you build shit like Spirits, deadmans, and titanic.

GelsominoKiller1 votes

I somehow agree, but i think right now Rengar starts the game as an assassin, and then transitions into a diver as the game progresses.

I'm really not a fan of warning the enemies of my ult, that takes away all the fun and the point of stealth itself. I'd rather trade "the surprise factor" with a delayed damage pattern, but i can see why it would be an hard thing to keep in the game.

The Taco Kat1 votes

I feel your pain. I lost the satisfaction of playing Graves (secondary main at the time) when he was reworked into the clunky, bruiseresque champion that he now is. I like being able to destroy health bars, sure, but the new version of Graves is just so boring. AA + R/Q (Q/R?) = +1 kill.

I haven't played him more than 5 times after his rework. He feels so unlike the old Graves. I figure Rengar to you is just like how Graves is to me; we both really enjoyed the old kits, and even though the new ones are very similar to the old ones, they just changed so many small things that made them not enjoyable.

Kat was reworked (my main), and I'm actually pretty happy with it; she still gives the same general feel of the champion as the old Katarina. Regardless, I still don't forgive Riot for taking away Graves. They say their main priority when reworking a champion is keeping the current mains happy by maintaining the champion's identity. I'm glad he was apparently always meant for the jungle, in Riot's eyes.

On from my rant, hopefully something is done for Rengo by Riot that will make him enjoyable for you again. Chances for changes/reverts are mid-season or end-of-season.

snibedi snab9 votes

Riot have no idea what they're doing. Expecting them to get it right on anything before the fifth try is a bit much.

mike in the box3 votes

that is ridiculous. Look at Ryze he is perfectly fine and it only took them ............ never mind.

BoilTheOil3 votes

Im sure they will rework ryze within 2 years again

Teridax688 votes

I think trying to give Rengar's ult more counterplay was the wrong place to improve him. With an ult that grants long-duration stealth, detection, bonus movement and a dash (from his innate), its entire purpose is to essentially guarantee that Rengar gets to whichever target he wants, whenever he wants. Making him detectable while stealthed, adding a warning, or even a global sound effect, all water down that fantasy.

What should have been done, however, should've been to make Rengar's kill pattern itself more interactive, though unfortunately his rework didn't improve that by any large measure. Rengar should be the kind of champion who attacks you whenever he likes, but who then challenges you to a fair fight, i.e. a one-on-one duel where every single one of his moves gives you an opportunity to counter him.

Instead, when he goes full damage he retains his burst pattern of old, and ends up killing enemies in a fraction of a second when fed, and just dying when he isn't. His current bruiser build is an attempt at making him more consistent, but it's just not how he's meant to be played, and it ends up making for an unsatisfying, mediocre play experience for everyone involved. Rengar deserves to have the most reliable initiation out of any assassin, but should also have one of the most interactive and counterable kill patterns as a result.

MunchCrunchLunch4 votes

{quoted}

I think trying to give Rengar's ult more counterplay was the wrong place to improve him. With an ult that grants long-duration stealth, detection, bonus movement and a dash (from his innate), its entire purpose is to essentially guarantee that Rengar gets to whichever target he wants, whenever he wants. Making him detectable while stealthed, adding a warning, or even a global sound effect, all water down that fantasy.

What should have been done, however, should've been to make Rengar's kill pattern itself more interactive, though unfortunately his rework didn't improve that by any large measure. Rengar should be the kind of champion who attacks you whenever he likes, but who then challenges you to a fair fight, i.e. a one-on-one duel where every single one of his moves gives you an opportunity to counter him.

Instead, when he goes full damage he retains his burst pattern of old, and ends up killing enemies in a fraction of a second when fed, and just dying when he isn't. His current bruiser build is an attempt at making him more consistent, but it's just not how he's meant to be played, and it ends up making for an unsatisfying, mediocre play experience for everyone involved. Rengar deserves to have the most reliable initiation out of any assassin, but should also have one of the most interactive and counterable kill patterns as a result.

and how do you make that happen when damage in league has been ramping up in the last two years. an adc mid late game can 2-3 hit squishies. what sort of interactiveness is possible. you either one hit them or they one hit you.

mid lane mages its even worse. they one hit you at level 6.

GelsominoKiller2 votes

This is unfortunately very true.

Right now if your full rotation damage proves to be insufficient to kill a carry, you're screwed, with pretty much every diver and assassin. Imagining delayed damage patterns and 1 on 1 interactions in this meta is very hard.

SirLapse1 votes

The entire problem was and still is his ultimate. As long as that thing exists, people will rage about it no matter what. I still see people complaining about how bs Rengar is despite knowing where he's coming from, because it only takes 1 kill for him to snowball. That was the same until the Q nerf right before his rework which killed him unless you built Tiamat items every game for triple AA, a strategy that Koreans loved using over and over and consistently won with.

There's no such thing as an assassin that "fights you fairly 1v1." I play Kha'Zix and the entire emphasis is that early on I can't instakill people, but by midgame it's my JOB to kill people that quickly or I will die due to being glass cannon. Rengar has the immense mobility and range from his ultimate that only Talon rework to this day can mimic consistently (though not to the same effect). If teams group up he essentially has no ultimate--this was the same on pre-rework Rengar as well. The difference here is that Rengar has so much inflated damage that it only takes him 4 kills on unique targets to begin chunking people with just a single Q after obtaining 60 AD from warrior enchant.

subhuman team XD6 votes

Its only matter of time before everyone realise how boring and bad rengar is to play , i no longer feel the fun i use to when i played him before the rework , that feeling whenever he jumps on someone and stab him just made him feel even more badass , not to mention the bonetooth quotes he use to say whenever he gets a certain amount of stacks , and of course his old W roar "COME ON LETS FIGHT" and lastly his old R quotes (he only has one now...) sadly , rengar is now the only champion to have half is VO removed from the game for no valid reason and also the only champion with no identity or uniqueness in the game , im gonna have to say my farewells to my favoruite champion of all time , rip rengar 2012-2017 you will be missed :(

ModAcademy Kayn6 votes

There's kind of a reason why Rengar isn't what he used to be, considering everything he used to do.

Troy2426216 votes

Honestly, if they reverted the rework but kept the Ferocity changes, it wouldn't be that bad. Yes, he'd still surprise buttsecks you, but he can't just instantly snare you or instantly Q>AA>Emp Q you anymore.

Then, if that's still too short of a window, they could literally just change his cast times to widen the window. This way he still feels like the Rengar his mains love, but he isn't complete aids to play against.

FairAndBalanced1 votes

I dont think you realize how much stronger this current rengar with a 44% winrate is than the 6.2 rengar. Just simply reverting him back AND taking away his ability to stack ferocity would make him beyond useless. id be surprised if that champion could pull a 35% winrate in the current jungle. Even reverting rengar 1:1 simply wouldnt work in the current jungle and he would require some large buffs to make him viable. Since the old rengar had fewer adjustment points his dmg would need to be insane to make it work.

tldr unless the jungle system changes you best not hope for a revert on rengar. (500k pre rework rengar main)

Estrynund1 votes

{quoted}

I dont think you realize how much stronger this current rengar with a 44% winrate is than the 6.2 rengar. Just simply reverting him back AND taking away his ability to stack ferocity would make him beyond useless. id be surprised if that champion could pull a 35% winrate in the current jungle. Even reverting rengar 1:1 simply wouldnt work in the current jungle and he would require some large buffs to make him viable. Since the old rengar had fewer adjustment points his dmg would need to be insane to make it work.

tldr unless the jungle system changes you best not hope for a revert on rengar. (500k pre rework rengar main)

? 6.2 Rengar wouldn't really have much trouble, you'd be able to build fero with Q on plants between camps, and his clear would be slightly slower than Kha'zix but he'd have early presence, which is the strongest thing in meta rn, look at Elise and Lee every game in high elo spamming ganks due to catch up XP..

KnifeCat1 votes

{quoted}

I dont think you realize how much stronger this current rengar with a 44% winrate is than the 6.2 rengar. Just simply reverting him back AND taking away his ability to stack ferocity would make him beyond useless. id be surprised if that champion could pull a 35% winrate in the current jungle. Even reverting rengar 1:1 simply wouldnt work in the current jungle and he would require some large buffs to make him viable. Since the old rengar had fewer adjustment points his dmg would need to be insane to make it work.

tldr unless the jungle system changes you best not hope for a revert on rengar. (500k pre rework rengar main)

Rengar's jungle clear wouldn't change much... Yes right now he clears Krugs and Raptors a lot more efficiently than old Rengar could, but even if they gave him trouble, you could just modify your clear pattern. Do All the other camps, then go gank, or recall, or whatever, then after your first buy, you can come back and clear them a lot more easily. Besides, this meta is about ganking a lot more than farming. You could be double your jungle opponents CS on this patch and it would be pointless, if he's pulling off ganks, he'll be ahead.

charge attack3 votes

Actually hip. He's so much more annoying now. If he's ahead and he ults HE WILL run you down cause his ult makes him go invis for so fking long. If you're caught it's even MORE GG than before because of the ridiculous move speed he gets from his passive.

He gets super tanky and does a lot of damage, but he isn't even an assassin anymore (either and unkillable machine or a worthless pile of garbage). No more blow up or get blown up play style.

N3mO063 votes

I really can't find an ultimate worse then Rengar's r. Maybe panth's r......fellsadman It's not even a camu%%%e, twitch's one it is, but Rengar can easily been seen even 2 sec before jump and he has the stupid 4k range warning indicator. Without the crit, which is really random and super hard to hit in teamfight with all dashing supports, will be worse then kha's e. Moreover, god bless w....if you want to do your job, you have to waste your w in order to get stacks. WELL DESIGNED! Land an qq combo against a carry with a dash, it's just inconsistent. But damage is high so bruiser Rengar can successfully engage even without killing the adc

Only Play Darius3 votes

I'm probably the minority but I cannot stand how his ferocity stacks fall off when you leave combat, I feel like I need to build tank just to survive long enough to reach 4 stacks. Not only is it harder to stack it on minions or monsters before going in, once in combat you don't even have to hit the abilities anymore to gain ferocity, you're being rewarded for missing skills. Then again I didn't play much Rengar.

Black T Poison1 votes

Majority**

Only Play Darius1 votes

Well I was including all league players such as ADC mains who might be sick of Rengar popping out of the jungle with a charged Q or E already prepared, frankly I don't know how Rengar players feel about the new ferocity mechanic

Estrynund2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WdKFExys,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2017-04-29T01:55:07.277+0000)

Well I was including all league players such as ADC mains who might be sick of Rengar popping out of the jungle with a charged Q or E already prepared, frankly I don't know how Rengar players feel about the new ferocity mechanic

It feels frustrating as fuck. It might be the biggest reason I build offtank now. I just cant be squishy and ever expect to get 4 stacks without wasting W and losing the ability that all of the kits power was drained into.

Rengooo1 votes

Mm, Idk, I think of all the changes it's probably the one that makes the most sense? Reason I say this is because it means the empowered ability can be alot more impactful and there can be more decision making around which on to use. Previously the issue was just jumping from stealth on someone with the empowered ability, which was either oppresive or when nerfed was just part of his normal combo.

At least with the way it works now it means it can be a lot more powerful.

Serika Zero2 votes

Rengar ult is almost like a scout

TacoTheKitten2 votes

[deleted]

KMS Bismarck1 votes

{quoted}

I've found the best way to make use of his ultimate is to try to get as close as possible without being seen, then ulting to actually engage. You can't really just pop it in river anymore and run to lane, because they have such a large warning zone. I kind of think the worst part about the rework were the q changes, not the ultimate, because to me the ultimate feels a bit more strategic to use now (although yeah, it does often turn him into just "build bruiser jump frontline").

Well there's indeed a problem so, because what's the point to give him camouflage if to use it correctely you need to already have walked through the warded path :/

ChaosThief2 votes

Personally, I think his ult does not stop him from being an assassin. Keep in mind, horror games still scare people quite easily, yet you constantly are aware of the monster that's coming to hunt you down. What stops him from being an assassin is how his safety mechanics work.

He has to sacrifice damage to give himself CC immunity, or snaring his opponent, etc. Normally, this can work, but when a heavy damage nuke relies on his empowered offensive ability, his Q, this is rather limiting.

Warkinge1 votes

Well or i just stay behind my Leona with Exausth and Targon and yeah Solari because well it's horror movie and it's a bad idea to split in horror movies !

ChaosThief1 votes

Well don't you know? In horror movies you have to investigate the loud noises, and you have to do it alone!

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

Daily reminder that it took Riot 5 patches to realize that his ult duration while stealthed is considered too long.

Thrill of the Hunt (R) Duration reduced to 12 / 16 / 20 seconds from 14 / 22 / 30.

Looknook1 votes

To be fair while enemies do get a lot of warning I still prefer it to his old ult. Ohwhatsthatonmyhead and I'm dead.

Leonerdo1 votes

The changes to Rengar's ult were the best part of his update. The fact that Rengar is FORCED to waste his ult just for zoning and scouting sometimes, is a good thing. It's a lot better than before, when it was a free kill every time he used it. (And being forced to group up and stand in front of your squishes, only knowing the general direction of your predator, feels a lot like being hunted to me.)

So if you're gonna complain about Rengar, please complain about his other abilities that actually got worse. Complain about his Q, which does just as much burst as before, but with more AoE and .1 second longer cast time. Complain about his Bonetooth Necklace, which got even more snowbally.

Compared to before, his ult is actually interesting and has legitimate counterplay now, so leave it alone.

the weeaboo3 votes

It's not about better or worse, it's about keeping his identity as a hunter assassin instead of a bursts bruiser. Assassins don't give their targets a massive heads up

Leonerdo1 votes

He's not an assassin. But I'm not gonna win this argument, so whatever.

Rengooo1 votes

Go and read his new lore entry. He is an assassin/hunter/lightfighter hybrid, or at least was and should be according to his lore.

jemande1 votes

Dont even need to check op.gg to know you are an adc main

Dessem1 votes

That feel when Rengar's ult lasts longer than the CD on Lux's ult.

Feels bad man. :(

Black T Poison1 votes

All I care about is the old q and fero q. Just the feeling you get once you release all the five stacks and get that attack speed, that feeling was amazing of just getting this hypermode. His whole kit could just be the q and I would still play him. I really wish Riot would find a way to balance it and revert it :( Also the bonetooth necklace, oh boy the bonetooth necklace. Before you used to actually look foreword to reaching x amount of stacks for that x upgrade no its just boring ad bonuses. I dont feel satisfied once I get a kill, I dont even notice it, the only time I do notice it is when its 20 minutes and I cant kill anyone because I have 0 stacks. Please Riot just revert Rengar, nerf the numbers a lot of people would be fine with that. Its the experience and feel of the champion is what people want, which the current Rengar just does not have.

Twinity Ferce1 votes

Honestly, revertibg Rengar's basic abilities but keeping the new ultimate would fix almost all his problems.

His old kit was extremely fun and satisfying to play with, but his old ult was really boring. His new kit feels extremely weak (the few times i play him i get moments where i use my empowered Q on an enemy and expect to deal like 300 damage, and then i do 800 instead and go like "wait, what" because it feels so extremely weak.) his new ult is so incredibly fun to use as a pressuring tool, it ends up being more fun to use for scouting and pressuring than actually engaging with.

Old Rengar had strategy in picking between Q and W. New Rengar either picks Q and blows up his target (and anything nearby, sort of like a leblanc on steroids) or W and returns to base.

TimX24968B1 votes

He needs to be able to clear the jungle in the first place. Just try doing red buff to krugs, only 1 (or 2) health pot, and let me know how much health you have left.

Lauchmelder2 votes

Why Krugs? Redbuff to blue to gromp then top? I mean, you don't have a good waveclear on him, so why handicap yourself with something that takes ages to clear instead of getting levels first?

TimX24968B1 votes

because its my favorite camp, and I like the gold you get from it.

Not to mention, many of the other junglers I play clear it just fine, even though rengar's q and w are (eh kinda) AOE.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Sounds like people are improperly using the ult.

Aside from the skirmishing part, that sounds exactly like it's supposed to work.

Lauchmelder1 votes

They could have simply increased his ult range indicator to make it possible for the target to react (not just "oh hey, Rengar is nearb.... AAAAND I'm dead" due to him being so fast) and it would have been enough.

JRobin311 votes

I think it is appropriately named. After all, if Rengar catches his prey, then he doesn't need to hunt for them anymore - it would be Thrill of the Catch. Kappa.

ddoA1 votes

Funny how there is tons of comments about rengar rework fail, and still there no one from riot to give the response to us who play or played rengar.

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