Why are mages underperforming?

Big Lincoln·Mar 9, 2016·3 votes·830 views

excluding the exceptions etc, why aren't mages doing well as a class right now?

is it that their itemization is problematic in combine costs (1000+ gold needs to be sat on before you can finish most of the big AP items)?

is it individual weaknesses with a lot of mages that has made them weak? nerfed too hard?

or is it just a product of how riot has tampered with their game? (lots of emphasis on taking towers easily, safe laners, vision changes being a pain in the ass if you don't have a lot of safety in lane)

just curious to see why people find mages unsatisfying, and why a lot of them don't seem to be performing well on the rare chance they actually appear in game.

17 Comments

AlwaysByMySideMar 9, 20162 votes

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=Middle&sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend

They're not.

Big LincolnMar 9, 20161 votes

then why do people insist that AP champions are so bad right now?

genuinely wondering, since I've been of the opinion that they're generally fine, but since I haven't seen the feelings that "APs are weak" subside, I'm curious as to why they feel this way

MegaManYYZMar 9, 20162 votes

you will always have a subset of people to insist OP champions are UP or bad. by no means are Mage's OP but they aren't even close to being bad or under performing.

The stats prove otherwise.

WalkingInACircleMar 9, 20161 votes

Only an ignorant tool think the stats prove anything.

Did you know this game has a system designed to push all players to a 50% winrate regardless of champions? Did you know there are 5 champions per team per game, and that therefore popular picks are weighing on the stats of unpopular picks? Etc etc.

Did you know that correlation does not equal to causation? If you did, you wouldn't think stats ever prove anything other than what they explicitly state.

VekknaMar 9, 20161 votes

Err...you're linking stats for the mage lane. Of course mages will be the highest. But look here:

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=

2 caster mages in the top 20. Lux and Vel'koz. The entire rest is tanks, AD, one support, and Kayle (who fits almost every category). 7 mages in the top 40. Then you start seeing lots of mages after rank 80. 22 mages are between 150 and 185.

Meep ManMar 9, 20162 votes

They... aren't? You can play Syndra Anivia and Xerath still do ok. Even Ziggs is doing fine.

Maple CrusaderMar 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WY2oi9rE,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-03-09T22:43:49.944+0000)

They... aren't? You can play and still do ok. Even is doing fine.

Syndra, and Anivia brings utility to the team.

Xerath and Ziggs can hardcore stall and push/siege for their team.

Van DarkholmeMar 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Syndra, and Anivia brings utility to the team.

Xerath and Ziggs can hardcore stall and push/siege for their team.

item 3512 HEARD YOU WERE TRYIN TO CLEAR WAVES, ANIVIA item 3060

Very Hard EngageMar 9, 20161 votes

lack of CDR, and if they do build it they just need to land another round of skill shots just to stay on par with targeted assassins or auto attack reliant champions.

their CC/utility has been repeatedly targeted as a means of balance, and they repeatedly boast low ratios to compensate for high AP builds.

so whats the point.

disregardableMar 9, 20161 votes

Why do you think they aren't doing well right now? Or that they're not appearing in games?

Big LincolnMar 9, 20161 votes

i don't, i play a small handful of mages and do well with them

but I look at some of their stats and they're really low, which confuses me. Veigar Viktor Karthus are my favorites, and Karthus's winrate is only close to 50% because of how rarely he gets picked.

so what's the issue with them??

disregardableMar 9, 20161 votes

Veigar and Swain were nerfed.

Big LincolnMar 9, 20161 votes

Still, for Veigar to drop from 52(?) to 46 like he is now is a little extreme, and for 50 base damage taken from his rotation?

Van DarkholmeMar 9, 20161 votes

There's a few problems.

AD Itemization is the immediate first thing.

When you fight an AP Champion, first backing and buying hexdrinker is basically /never/ the wrong choice under any circumstances. Then they can continue onto items that give them more ARPen, more CDR, more survivability, etc. Whatever they feel like.

Meanwhile the really viable CDR options on AP Characters (The characters who are usually entirely gated in power BY their cooldowns, (unlike ADs, who can at least whack at you.) are Grail and Morellos. Morello's is fine. Grail is an awkward buy because, hey, AP champions aren't popular, Morellonomicon fills in mana problems for MOST AP laners, and if you need to itemize against magic damage, you're going to be building Abyssal. So then you either have to invest in things that are more awkward purchases for most AP laners (FQC, Lich Bane is generally not an option) or you rune for it. Runes are generally a good bet, but not everybody has those runes.

That and the meta is really geared towards being either beefy, bursty or mobile. Mages don't tend to get beefy. AP Burst is VERY ineffective at the moment with how popular Mercurial, Steraks, Maw, etc. is. And, well, mobile mages ARE popular. Just look at Ahri and LB.

Lux is really the only outlier here but Lux is also a character whose minimum range on her offensive spells is 1,000.

Dominick DestineMar 9, 20161 votes

Morgana is doing pretty well.

blfUvZ8YbuMar 9, 20161 votes

All of them were nerfed.

NarsicusMar 9, 20161 votes

I wouldn't say the mages champions are UP.

I would say that assassins are overrepresented in lower elos (or at least this seems to be the experience of many people on the boards and it is my experience as well) which naturally makes life hard for a lot of mages, especially those without safe options. Notice that Lux (high range and multiple cc's) and Ahri (mobility and cc) are still doing ok because they can be played rather safe even if their opponents have a lot of burst or effective engages.

Fortunately we have the immobile mage update chugging along which will likely be addressing a few of the mages who are especially poor at competing atm. And once some random game changes roll along and assassins are out of vogue mages will once again be fine and you'll see people complaining about them like they've been on top of the world for years in a secret conspiracy to maintain dominance over the rest of league.

It's business as usual, mages are generally fine its just that their counters are currently overrepresented which makes many of them feel bad to play.