What do you want Swain to be?

Big Lincoln·Jul 19, 2017·19 votes·1,343 views

personally hoping he still feels very bruiser like.

i don't really think the DoTs are important, but as long as he feels hard to kill I'd probably play him. Ideally if he was like "old Swain, but less braindead"

78 Comments

AhristocatsJul 19, 201710 votes

something more than i press R and go afk

RalanrJul 19, 20179 votes

Let's just morph and eat them.

AhristocatsJul 19, 20177 votes

that goes without saying, he should still have the transformation, but it shouldn't be something like this you use it and then walk around

it's like pre rework sejuani

Big LincolnJul 19, 20174 votes

not allowed to say that name in my thread

begone

AhristocatsJul 20, 20172 votes

damn right when they said the truth hurt

Valor BotJul 19, 20179 votes

If "Master Tactician" remains his core theme, I feel the 'unstoppable drain tank' profile needs to go as it's pretty unfit for a calculating strategic character. In this case, burst mage might make the most sense, or even artillery as it'd provide a more precise, backline-esque playstyle for him.

If Riot decides to move him away from the tactician archetype though and instead rework him into a pure Warlock, then I think battle mage would be a fine subclass for him to fall under, perhaps one revolving around curses or hexes. Not sure what his strategic niche would be after such a huge revamp to the character, so your guess is as good as mine. He's got some overlap with Vladimir at the minute in terms of what unique things he brings to a team; something tells me they're going to be moving him away from 'ranged mage with strong AoE and self-healing' in order to distinguish him a bit more.

Big LincolnJul 19, 201731 votes

leader of noxus shouldn't be a pussy poke mage

Valor BotJul 19, 20175 votes

Well yea, he may be the leader of Noxus but as we've seen from hints in the recent lore / champion interactions he's also quite wily in personality and likes to look out for his own skin. Seems rather similar to Azir where he's the puppetmaster behind the strings, but then much of Swain and Noxus itself is still shrouded in mystery so what do I know. He may actually be super strong and representative of Noxian ideals; in that case AP juggernaut might make the most sense, though I think Riot would have to be careful not to make him too much like Mordekaiser.

Big LincolnJul 19, 20177 votes

he should be like senator Armstrong tbh

DragonSheaJul 19, 20178 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WHEgc8pg,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-19T21:05:56.045+0000)

he should be like senator Armstrong tbh

Darius is more like Senator Armstrong. But yeah I'd like Swain to be a tough ass motherfucker that is akin to a mage jugg.

Big LincolnJul 19, 20175 votes

Darius didn't play college ball, though

DragonSheaJul 19, 201710 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WHEgc8pg,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-19T21:42:05.879+0000)

Darius didn't play college ball, though

But he Played NNBA And dunked fools before getting his PhD in Dunk.

AwesomeGuyDjJul 19, 20176 votes

{quoted}

But he Played NNBA And dunked fools before getting his PhD in Dunkology

FTFY

Over InnsmouthJul 19, 20171 votes

Riot hire Big Lincoln now.

Big LincolnJul 19, 20178 votes

"nanobirds, son"

- Swain armstrong

ArakadiaJul 19, 20172 votes

I could not agree with Big Lincoln more.

Pretty much if Big lincoln who loves juggernauts is interested in Swain, his rework probably went well. Juggermages are cool af.

Big LincolnJul 19, 20172 votes

if riot can make me like a mage then maybe i'll forgive them for s*****i

Jet SettJul 19, 20172 votes

We need something that can duel decently well at least, in his lore Swain defeats a man thought to supersede his strengths.

GayFluffyUnicornJul 20, 20173 votes

So true.

Speaking as a pretty dedicated swain player considering i'm one of the 1% of all players even taking him mid he definitely needs to keep his battlemage identity of running the enemy team down in his bird form. I think his current iteration isn't even THAT far away from what he should be: Human master tactician trying to bait the enemy into their demise (playing around his QW zoning) and on the other hand monstrous demon bird charging the enemy frontlines. Don't stone me to death if someone disagrees, that's just my opinion and why i enjoy his current playstyle.

It's just that:

His tactician part is pretty lackluster to non existent. Either you hit QW and the enemy dies or you miss and you are useless.
His doesn't bring much to a team another mage can't do better EXCEPT being a frontline AP threat if you lack both, that's his only real niche and often the reason he is picked toplane (on top of being incredibly cancer for 90% of the toplane roster). That's why i have to disagree with pretty much anyone in this thread trying to turn him into another poke/artillery/whatever mage. Apart from Vlad who doesn't really fit that "role" anyways imo he is pretty much the only real AP juggernaut in this game i think and he should definitely keep that and just how do i say it riot needs to bring that aspect more into his gameplay.

They'll have to make him less binary. As already mentioned what you do is the following: Hit QW and kill or miss and walk around in R hoping to outsustain the enemy team long enough until your cooldowns are back up. He's incredibly feast or famine. Fall behind as swain and ff15. Snowball and enjoy freelo.

PS: I'm answering here because this is on the top and i actually want people to read this and answer and tell me their opinion and not make this post disappear in the depths of 100+ answers.

Glory ln DeathJul 19, 20173 votes

He should be more of a Control Mage/Catcher than Artillery or Poke. His kit should be changed up so it focuses more on zoning type stuff like his Nevermove and bird zone thing.

BlitzidiousJul 19, 20172 votes

Yeah, I think he should be a durable DoT mage with huge amounts of zoning capabilities.

It Hertz When IPJul 20, 20172 votes

But we already HAVE just about every type of burst mage imaginable, and artillery mages seem perpetually difficult to balance.

AcidTheWarlockJul 25, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=It Hertz When IP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WHEgc8pg,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2017-07-20T00:01:37.332+0000)

But we already HAVE just about every type of burst mage imaginable, and artillery mages seem perpetually difficult to balance.

Xerath, Ziggs, Vel'Koz?

It Hertz When IPJul 26, 20171 votes

Vel'koz isn't IMO artillery. His Q is the only long-range poke he has and it's really easy to minion-block.

Ziggs was in the top five for Mages Everyone Bitches About when he was strong, and he always seems either UP or OP.

Jinzo TorranceJul 19, 20175 votes

Swain is a DoT mage and he should remain one

Maddened King Jul 20, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cinquino Show,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WHEgc8pg,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-07-19T20:58:05.086+0000)

Swain is a DoT mage and he should remain one

I agree, this is what brought me 2 him. I started playing him in S1 because of his DoT aspect, I only stopped playing him because his kit is simply to boring as compared to Orianna. I really hope his rework keeps the Warlock aspect of him. The drain tank aspect of him is already a thing with a variety of champions and was not the reason I started playing him.

RalanrJul 19, 20174 votes

I like the idea of him being a battle mage/Warlock. But kitwise idk.

Titanium70Jul 19, 20174 votes

Well - Dots are a good tool to force bruiser-ish playstyle. You can't build full DMG if you can't kill any major thread in an instant. Still I agree - the Dots are not his "identity". His sustain, his immobility, his low range and his transformation - those are the things that make Swain, Swain. This and his 'Deathzone-ish' Playstyle - who ever dares to get to close gets eaten! (Which could have a great synerfy with his "Master Tactician" Title.

It will be tricky - but a good Swain-Rework should unite both. The Master tactician base form as well as the AP-Juggernaut demon form.

BlitzidiousJul 20, 20172 votes

I don't know, I disagree about the DoT. It just feels wrong to take it away. I love DoT damage. It's what attracted me to Swain in the first place.

Everything else, though, hell yeah. Especially the Deathzone Playstyle. That should be Swain.

sirwaterflesJul 20, 20172 votes

Nothing like seeing them (300 hp with e and a raven just launched at them) dash,flash,dash away into the fogg of war while you limp back to your tower (cool guys dont look at explosions playing in your mind) and just when you press b deathcredit comes through.

SeiferothJul 19, 20173 votes

I don't know about you guys but when I play Swain, I attack from the flank(That's what teleport is for), however, I also just morph and eat them...

BlitzidiousJul 19, 20173 votes

Removal of DoT would ruin the champion for me. It's what attracted me to Swain in the first place. :p

In my opinion, they should keep the DoT, replace drain tanking with proper durability(some self healing is fine, but it shouldn't be nearly as strong as it is now), and for them to keep Raven form in some way.

I said it before on a different post, If they turn him into a squishy burst mage, I'm going on a homicidal rampage. He should stay a battlemage, and feel like an AP Juggernaut(With DoT :p).

Dream HighJul 19, 20172 votes

I personally don't want them to touch him.

GayFluffyUnicornJul 20, 20171 votes

Same, after LB rework, Zed gutting and gragas rework (who i mained mid back back back in the old days) i don't want em to ruin another champ for me. I just hope they don't take too much from his playstyle and just slightly update his abilities and mostly his visuals so he can finally get some skins.

AwesomeGuyDjJul 19, 20172 votes

Personally? i think he's fine as is tbh. He's not a huge problem, nor is he hugely UP. There are certainly champions who need it more.

Glory ln DeathJul 19, 20172 votes

The thing is, his gameplay is nothing like his theme, and his ult is definitely not great for game health. On top of that, his visuals are pretty dang bad. He's not weak, but that isn't the most important factor in determining who gets a VGU.

ModKnightsKemplarJul 19, 20172 votes

I want a Battle Mage. If he isn't walking into the fray doing sustained damage, I honestly don't know what to do with that. Swain exists in the middle of the enemy team. That's where he belongs, just like Vlad and Karthus.

Sustain? I could take it or leave it (though some limited form for lane would be good). DoTs? Don't care about em.

Transform into a giant Demon Bird of Misery and Pain that walks straight into the enemy team? Must-have, imo. I'll try to keep an open mind, but this is what I want. I can live with whatever other changes need to happen to make that healthy and balanced.

SukishooJul 19, 20172 votes

I want him to stay the Battle Mage he is.. but have more of that identity put into it. Plus I want more of his Bird theme to be part of the abilities if they go for that, since he's somewhat of a Bird Mage.

BroccoliManJul 19, 20172 votes

Honestly, I think he's just fine the way he is.

HåppyJul 19, 20172 votes

Swain being the DoT Mage is his entire identity. I hope they keep that. It feels so good to play him, and that's why I pick him over any other mage. Swain is just so fun.

sirwaterflesJul 20, 20172 votes

AP juggernaut with just a hint of cc (nevermore is fun and fair)