PBE Assassin's Rework: Everyone has a reason to be picked except Shaco.

Ready 2 B Blamed·Oct 25, 2016·13 votes·1,435 views

Every assassin that is being reworked has a reason to be played and their very good reasons but does anybody know why we would pick Shaco?

How it worked is that Shaco had the best early game, hands down. Shaco was slippery, it's not a very good reason considering you can pick another jungler and get the same results but it was a reason, nonetheless. However, Shaco's early game went to shit and I didn't feel bad hearing that it was going to shit because I was one of the people who insisted that Shaco's early game could take the cleave in order to make him a viable champion. But you literally butchered it for quality of life changes. There isn't any reason to pick Shaco over other assassins because Shaco is harder to build, Shaco has weaker early game than Kha'Zix, Rengar. Shaco has weaker objective control than Kha'Zix (Kha'Zix's Q buff is waaaay too good is why...). Shaco has weaker scaling, which is funny the whole point was to make him good at scaling but HE LITERALLY DOESN'T DO HALF THE SHIT THE OTHER ASSASSINS DO HOW DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO SCALE?!?!?! Shaco has worse global pressure than.. all the other assassins, I mean Fizz has better global pressure than he does. Leblanc is because her clone CAN BE SUMMONED ANYWHERE ON THE FUCKING MAP! WHAT IS THAT?!?! There is no reason for that champion to have that! That is literally bullshit! Shaco has lower damage than all the other assassins, it's true. Shaco is squishier than most of the other assassins. Shaco has the slowest jungle clear except maybe Ekko's is slower. Fuck, jungle alistar is probably better because of his random ass rework.

Riot, I never complained about the champion I mained because I picked him knowing he wasn't all that meta and I've mained him for 5 years straight. After you mentioned that Shaco was getting a rework I was hyped because you've been hyping it up for years! I genuinely want my champion to be a good, healthy champion for both parties, why can't you get that right?

18 Comments

Luxs DestinyOct 25, 20163 votes

Because they've done it correctly. Boxes are better. Clone is better. Q is better with passive, worse in invis. Which is fine. E does less dmg early, more late. That's great! Clone has more usability! That's great! More utility as well! Passive is much healthier and better lategame, as well as simple combos. This is a small-scale rework for quality of life, gameplay health changes.

Ready 2 B BlamedOct 25, 20163 votes

{quoted} . Boxes are better.

Boxes are worse because for the most part of the game, they die faster. Maybe last a little longer (triggered) late-game. MAYBE.

Clone is better.

Maybe the AI is better but the actual ability is just as useless as it was before.

Q is better with passive, worse in invis. Which is fine.

I like the changes for Q but it is completely reliant on everything else being at least somewhat decent, which they are not. Also, was Q not good with passive originally?

E does less dmg early, more late. That's great!

No it isn't. I've discussed the E changes to a great many people and there are some ups and downs but overall I ended up with: "Why is this such a balanced change?" Almost all the other assassins lost so little for such big gains but we have to lose so much for 1 good thing. We can't get 1 good thing! 1 good thing that isn't that special.

Clone has more usability! That's great! More utility as well!

The clone got three MINI-boxes that die instantly in any fight before it even triggers. Taking 5 AD away from Warrior was a better balance change than this.

Passive is much healthier and better lategame, as well as simple combos.

Look, passive was... never good. I'll be real it served it's purpose but hmm... Overall, passive is worse solely because his E isn't affected by it. That to me is just a slap to the fact.

This is a small-scale rework for quality of life, gameplay health changes.

In other words, Riot doesn't plan to make a viable champions and would rather make him worse. This is a testament to how much Riot disrespects one of the most interesting champions in the game.

Luxs DestinyOct 25, 20163 votes

Mate. All of these opinions are of someone who doesn't play the champion. You're apparently not a Shaco main, nor have you ever played the champion extensively, if you're calling parts of his kit useless or saying that he's not viable, saying that this makes him worse. Not to mention you outright refuted many of the points I made without putting any support behind your response. Get outta town. /thread.

Bushvv00kieOct 25, 20163 votes

I dont like to bring rank argument, but you are gold 4 with 42 Shaco games, and you are arguing with Diamond with 10 times more games on Shaco. Ye, he is definately not a Shaco main.

Ready 2 B BlamedOct 25, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Mate. All of these opinions are of someone who doesn't play the champion. You're apparently not a Shaco main, nor have you ever played the champion extensively, if you're calling parts of his kit useless or saying that he's not viable, saying that this makes him worse. Not to mention you outright refuted many of the points I made without putting any support behind your response. Get outta town. /thread.

"Mate" you can look me up and there you'll see proof that'll show you that I've been playing Shaco likely before you were even born. I simply responded with as much detail as you argued with. I am also a realist and the fact that Shaco was never a good champion. You don't know what it takes to REALLY adapt to the champions weaknesses and play recognizing what you can and can do with memory.

Don't pretend like you made any good "arguments" because you literally just said "oh this is good, this is good too! totally this is good!" I'm just gonna say... "No... that's not good and if that's all the detail you can give in your argument, then that's just pathetic". Even without intending, I gave more detail in my argument.

One last thing, viability is a word that's always thrown around casually but everyone knows you can win a few games with any champion in any role. So, I hold "viability" to a much higher degree and I'm talking about actual "meta" champions. Obviously, I don't want Shaco to be stupid OP but I want him to fit into the meta in some way.

ff4skOct 25, 20163 votes

I just want to know who thought nerf'ing him this much was a good idea? Like I get it, shaco is quite strong in the hands of someone who knows how to play him but even then he traded his late game for his early game to help his team snowball, he was the definition of an assassin being both slippery and dealing reasonable damage to kill a high priority target and he was only played by a few so even then it was rare to have people complain about him since he was rarely in any games.

But they've gone and taken his early, promised us a more health and useful late game but they gave us shit.

they cut all his damage in half, added stupid gimmicks and slapped some hp % on his E that even when calculated came out less than what he initially had.

So to whoever made the shaco rework, I hope you fall off a flight of stairs and breaks your fucking neck you sack of dog shit.

oWHY SO SERIOUSOct 25, 20163 votes

Shaclone (1 of the top 3 Shaco players worldwide) did the math, and Shaco's damage on Q backstab with 250 AD or so went from 660 to 480. Khas Q with his invisibility from every brush probably does like 1000. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8OeHxloR_c)

Also his e damage is nerfed, I don't understand why people think it's a buff: Assume 250 AD, roughly 200 bonus AD.: OLD: 50-210 (+100% AP) (+100% Bonus AD) = (210 + 0 + 200)1.2 = 492 NEW: 5/35/65/95/125 (+90% AP) (+85% total AD) + [3-8% of target's missing health] = 125+(2500.85) + 0.08*MH = 337 + 0.08MH

So to have at least the same dmg as you used to make from behind, the enemy needs to HAVE MISSING 1937 health. Your job is to assassinate squishies. When did you the last time see a Jhin who was alive and had missing more than 1937 health?. When did you last time need your e to trade?. There you fucking go. That's not a buff to his e.

Also in the new jungle. Shaco has 0 sustain, 0 AOE clear. How the fuck is he supposed to clear wraiths and krugs early on?. Name me one jungler who has a worse clear (except the first buff of course.). So you needed to be good at counterjungling early on. Use 3.5 sec invisibility to invade, skirmish, and get out before the midlaner & support catch you. 2sec less invisibility and +2sec cooldown HUGELY decrease your odds of surviving being chased in enemy jungle.

As of his R, yeah boxes are cool, in dueling it's nice, but in teamfights they instantly die to any AOE (they share health).

No w stacking, idc about that.

Also: We'll have to build cdr on Shaco, alright. I can live with that. But passive gives 145% minicrits at max level, every 3 seconds, right? Ok, how is that going to benefit you?. In a teamfight, you go in with q, start with backstab, great, you got probably 100dmg more. With full cdr (which you're not going to get, look at the AD CDR items, you need blue buff..) you have to wait 1.5sec for another crit from behind. How often in a fight did they leave you alone with the adc for 2seconds?. Also, he will either kite or fight you, he most surely won't leave you to scratch his back. 2nd scenario, you're in a 1v1 situation. How often did a Darius let you run around him to backstab him again?. You won't get more than 2 passive procs in a fight. So it remains a nerf.

So: Earlygame weaker (and Shaco needs good early to be useful in late. That's what he was about. In literally every aspect his outclassed by other junglers, except in his earlygame. Now not anymore). :( He's so difficult to play well and that should be rewarded. Kha does twice as much dmg, has a heal, a slow, a resetting leap, multiple invisibilities and a speed boost (and a cool interaction.) So why?

Shaco has always been my favorite champ by far and I played him a lot (I started about when Darius came out). I'm not a Shaco otp, but I think I have enough background to have a solid opinion. I'd appreciate that anyone lifts my hopes who also knows this champ and sees any of my points differently.

Cheers.

Ready 2 B BlamedOct 25, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=oWHY SO SERIOUS,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WGqFOXjY,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-10-25T21:48:31.027+0000)

Shaclone (1 of the top 3 Shaco players worldwide) did the math, and Shaco's damage on Q backstab with 250 AD or so went from 660 to 480. Khas Q with his invisibility from every brush probably does like 1000. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8OeHxloR_c)

In about everything... this is sadly true. Though, I do not respect Shaclone as a player at all and anyone who follows him. Those kinds of people are one of the reasons Shaco is disrespected so much as a champion and will continue to be disrespected. However you did make 1 error: Q's duration scales from 1.5 to 4.5. I actually think Q is a much healthier ability now though the changes make the damage maybe a little too low so it isn't perfect, but it's far from the worse thing that has been changed about Shaco. Nevertheless, I can't play a champion that's never gonna get any respect by Riot...

TequilaZombieOct 26, 20161 votes

Q's duration scales from 1.5 to 4.5. I actually think Q is a much healthier ability now though the changes make the damage maybe a little too low so it isn't perfect

I think that combined with the almost useless E, Shaco is not rewarded enough by maxing any of his abilities. Q needs 4 ranks to be at the same level as now, E became a joke and his W is all but reliable.

oWHY SO SERIOUSOct 26, 2016

[{quoted}](name=Leon Crowl,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WGqFOXjY,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-10-25T22:22:55.355+0000)

In about everything... this is sadly true. Though, I do not respect Shaclone as a player at all and anyone who follows him. Those kinds of people are one of the reasons Shaco is disrespected so much as a champion and will continue to be disrespected. However you did make 1 error: Q's duration scales from 1.5 to 4.5. I actually think Q is a much healthier ability now though the changes make the damage maybe a little too low so it isn't perfect, but it's far from the worse thing that has been changed about Shaco. Nevertheless, I can't play a champion that's never gonna get any respect by Riot...

I don't really care for his personality, I just see that he mastered my favourite champion and climbed to challenger with him. That speaks for his understanding of the game and of Shaco. That's all I need. I just wanted to give a source on the calculation, bcs it wasn't mine (in contrary to the e).

I indeed know that Q scales from 1.5 to 4.5, but you need to be lvl 7 to have longer invisibility than on live. And as I said, you need a long Q to get ahead early, because mid/lategame, 1 second longer invisibility is not enough to compete with any scaling jungler when you didn't get a Shaco headstart. (The Q wasn't healthy before they halvened its range years ago.. Yeah, I've been playing him for long.)

I'm also aware of the buff that pinks don't see you, but to be honest, how often did a pink ward screw up a gank for you?.. There are numerous gank paths, and at most 1 pink per lane.. If gank failed try again with a different route... And in teamfight if pink is placed, send in your clone as distraction, then go. Or wait until battle heats up, then slip in.

Cheers

Meep ManOct 25, 20161 votes

I'm mainly saddened when I realized I couldn't cheese double Duskblade as Shaco anymore since Duskblade got changed

Ready 2 B BlamedOct 25, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WGqFOXjY,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-25T19:27:45.371+0000)

I'm mainly saddened when I realized I couldn't cheese double Duskblade as Shaco anymore since Duskblade got changed

What the hell? How did you get away with that in the first place? Lol Also, new duskblade is super OP for assassins which is why Shaco absolutely has to be able to still build it otherwise it sets him too far behind other assassins. It does good damage, it's instant now(though seemingly does slightly less damage) and best of all the new blackout passive is SO good. It's basically a free raptor buff even after you set it off it comes back in 60 seconds. That's broken!

PentaJukeOct 26, 20161 votes

LeBlancs ult isnt that op, its funny, not op.

Ready 2 B BlamedOct 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

LeBlancs ult isnt that op, its funny, not op.

Any ability where you can decide when a lane can just sit the fuck back no matter the circumstance of the lane, is pretty freaking op. Let me put it this way: you can change every decision on the enemy team by just clicking a button.

PentaJukeOct 26, 20161 votes

pretty obvious if it fake

Ready 2 B BlamedOct 26, 20162 votes

{quoted}

pretty obvious if it fake

Did you see it?!?! It LOOKS extremely real to the point where it copies an ability! Like, they must've screwed up a lot if it's pretty obvious it's fake. Even if it is obvious that's not what you're gonna think when you see a leblanc walk up behind you in lane. If you assume that and it's real you're 100% dead.

PentaJukeOct 27, 20161 votes

Lol I saw Lb heading down botlane through the tribush and I knew it was real cause she wasny walking perfectly align, they thought it was the clone, luckily Im a LeBlanc main and can tell it was real warning them and sh failed a dive under turret, no one got hurt thanks to me. This was pbe and I can tell apart more likely, LeBlanc mains have a better guessing game even when its shaco.

Ready 2 B BlamedOct 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Lol I saw Lb heading down botlane through the tribush and I knew it was real cause she wasny walking perfectly align, they thought it was the clone, luckily Im a LeBlanc main and can tell it was real warning them and sh failed a dive under turret, no one got hurt thanks to me. This was pbe and I can tell apart more likely, LeBlanc mains have a better guessing game even when its shaco.

The clone doesn't always walk "perfectly aligned" x(. I believe it acts like standard pathing. You know, when you click somewhere and the pathing automatically sets a direction for your character to follow? Also, that just sounds like an extremely obvious thing, no offense. I also am not sure that leblanc knew what her clone does.