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Jungle is Worse than Ever

Ready 2 B Blamed·5/16/2018, 6:23:40 PM·93 votes·21,426 views

It's funny because I'm one of the people who's been the most optimistic about jungle for the longest time. I mean, I've played a few games today. First day of the patch so nothing's set in stone. But in all my years of playing I've never felt worse about a specific iteration of jungle than the current one.

It's mainly because if the game- and i'm not exaggerating, if the game is lost within 3 minutes.. It's just lost. Let's say top, mid and/or bot dies within your first clear. And it's probably likely that'll happen. Okay! Well, you lost river control. Unless your top laner tps in and the enemy stays like an idiot then you gank and re-gain river control. But in all likelihood, you probably lost topside scuttle by then. Which means the enemy jungler is ahead by an entire level and you lose river control by default. I just feel like not being able to effectively gank before my teammates inevitably feed first blood sets me further behind than even them. And that's unhealthy for junglers. Like, jungle wasn't perfect before but it was punishing. Because even though ganking top @ lvl3 is the most telegraphed gank of all time- it worked because top laners are... Kind of dumb, to be honest. So, I did rely on that as a leverage to get an early lead.

Now? I don't really have that. All I've felt that has worked for me is messing with their jungler (assuming I've picked a jungler that wins in 1v1 scenario) and just hoping I got better laners. That way, my lanes can just win w/o their jungler stopping them. But if I don't have better laners then I am just wasting my own time. But ganking, often times, doesn't really work because the enemy laner is just so much more ahead and i'm 2 levels below their jungler because they got scuttles and I couldn't. Effectively we lose every 2v2. There's also the RNG aspect. Let's say your top is winning but your bot is losing. And scuttle respawns bot river. Then you just lose it. You're behind again even though you have 2 kills and their jungler died earlier. Your top laner is kind of useless because it's top lane. I mean it's not the easiest lane to snowball cuz' there's not much to work with. It is possible, though. If your top laner fucking stomps them by 10 minutes. You get herald, rotate mid get tower and reset. But even then, that isn't the safest play because their bot lane and jungler can always rotate mid to stop it pretty easily. But if you wanna be effective, you just have to find the way to get a lead early and turn it into a snowball as it's really easy to do so now. There's hardly any inbetween. You just snowball or you lose. Even if the enemy jungler doesn't snowball as hard as they should be; they're ahead because their laners are winning.

If I had to say what the problem is: it's that scuttles offer a LOT... But if you lose lane lottery then you don't get scuttles. If you don't get scuttles then the game is over. There's no way to get back into the game, as a jungler. That's my take. Jungle just became more RNG-based and not a role you can carry in.

145 Comments

Hethalean5/16/2018, 6:27:34 PM29 votes

It just feels like they wanted to take jungle pressure down, but made changes that favor heavily junglers who can clear fast, duel well, and pressure the map well and forced out other junglers who aren't WW, Lee Sin, Xin, Trundle, etc.

Blåbæret5/17/2018, 5:16:10 AM13 votes

The balance team really doesn't know what they're doing at this point.

Bad change.

Yung Kaioken5/16/2018, 7:07:34 PM13 votes

100% agreed, I don't like this change. I don't even feel like playing anymore.

1 HP Warrior5/16/2018, 8:52:21 PM12 votes

State of the Jungle is a nightmare at the moment, a full clear needed to try and find any pressure on the map, but wait, you're too busy trying to duel a WW for scuttle waiting to see who from which lane arrives first. This has all but ruined every other Jungle that isn't already banned in the meta. Not to mention the runic echos nerf that killed Elise, Fiddle, AP Shaco, Ekko and a few other mage junglers I could be forgetting. How did this make it through PBE? Is no one giving any feed back? In my however long I've been playing this is maybe the 20th time I've ever logged into the forums and I felt it necessary to reply to this man's accurate depiction of the state of Jungle. 5 minutes for a level 4 battle for 2nd Rift Scuttler just to have the level 5 mid laner come down and give their two cents into the scuffle. It feels so bad to play, I wanted to /ff in the first 8 minutes of the game and my team was winning their lanes. But I felt as if I was doing nothing, because I was, I was farming the jungle and dancing with their jungler over these idiotic crabs. It feels as if Jungle has no impact, no say in the early/mid game. So why would anyone play this role.

ImYourDàdBTW5/17/2018, 3:43:20 AM12 votes

Yeah, the new jungle sucks. Why TF did riot listen to the whining nub sacks that don't know how to ward your bush around 2:15? Seriously... that's all it takes to completely undermine a gank...unless you're just bad. but either way, in the case that you're bad or don't know how to ward, you deserve to lose. So riot screws and entire role and a fifth of their player base with it. That's just about as smart as not warding. See y'all in fortnite

Salson5/16/2018, 9:47:45 PM8 votes

I have not been level 3 ganked today. Life was good.

In all honesty, I think Jungle is about as strong as Top at the moment. Overall it goes something like like Bot>Mid>Jungle/Top.

Idk, If Bot gets decently nerfed in the next patch, the game should be fine. Jungle might be a bit weaker than before, but overall in line with everyone else.

Feed or Famine5/17/2018, 7:24:16 AM6 votes

Riot had already nerfed my tank jungles into oblivion, and now they are even further gone. I have no choice but to play shit like xin and ww now. I miss the days when playing either a tank OR a carry were viable options.

SilverLine5/17/2018, 7:41:35 AM6 votes

Bruh scuttle is like dragon at this point, this is such a joke. If the jungler dont have their scuttle, you might as well dc cause they will be a lower lvl then the support in no time.

rtbf2234347215/17/2018, 8:22:17 AM6 votes

Rift Scuttler is making Jungler a very frustrating experience. This duel over Rift Scuttler is not fun and kills the viability of many junglers in the game. Rift Scuttler gives to mutch and is based on RNG. I m not liking to be this Rift Scuttler bitch when i play jungler.

If they intend to reduce gank pressure, they could: Adjust camps XP Adjust camps Gold Adjust camps HP Adjust jungle spawn times

I personally hate RNG and this chages are not fun so i will not be jungling any time soon.

ps: I'm thinking that maybe "duoing" top is better

Risen295/17/2018, 3:35:22 AM6 votes

My impression so far has been that the changes have had the opposite effect. It punishes slower junglers while making fast junglers stronger. This has only increased the advantage that quick gank junglers have over the game when compared with other junglers.

Shyvana feels like garbage now. I think it has more to do with the fact that it takes longer to get to level 6 than it does with the fact that it takes longer to get to level 3.

It feels like you hardly have any impact over the entire laning phase of the game at all before it starts wrapping up.

royalpaste5/17/2018, 4:02:10 PM5 votes

after playing on pbe for a bit, all i can say is right now jungle is awful. god forbid you pick a tank or a scaling champion. they got a lee or xin? well your fucked now cause you gonna be sitting there 3 levels behind 3k behind in gold and useless as a sack of rocks

Hyperwolf7755/17/2018, 2:23:30 AM4 votes

well

as a jg main, shaco is dead. shaco use to be able to clear blue and gromp and invade red and usually kill the enemy jg and also get level 3. but now i have to get rift, which stinks since shaco is played as a early game jg, but the changes are killing early game jgs now.

MoD Solid5/17/2018, 11:52:28 AM4 votes

i just want to put it like this and i hope you guys can let riot see this by upvoting my comment . i've played league since 2009 and this patch is pretty much worse patch and jungle pathing . simply the fun in the game is just ruined with this patch . giving scuttler crab this much of importance makes 0 sense , now the junglers with the level 2 advantage will keep just securing it and keep abusing the other jungler.

BestPudgeNA5/17/2018, 6:40:18 PM3 votes

Been watching Shiphtur stream. He has played 5 games today both teams in all 5 games have had autofilled Junglers cause 0 high elo junglers wanna play the game. LMFAO

Oelyk5/17/2018, 4:06:34 AM3 votes

I feel like this Jungle Change will make Camille even better becuase level two E will allow here quality scuttle roams. Pretty much all I care about now anyhow.

ModCaliCoastReplay5/17/2018, 5:39:22 AM3 votes

Single scuttlebug was a bad change. The first one tends to go to whoever is actually closer to the random spawn's position at the time, not the most deserving player - then a good jungler can just use the vision control to snowball from there. And then Riot just doubles down on it by buffing bug rewards in 8.10.

Seems very much like a bad change to me. Bring back double bug. There was plenty of interaction in terms of steals, zone control over the river and etc. as it was.

Festive Bear5/17/2018, 8:48:45 AM3 votes

The second you loose pressure as a jungler, the game falls behind HARD. The jungle doesn't have good enough respawn timers for you to catch up if the enemy takes one side of the jungle, or even a camp or two. I've been in games where i am stuck at lvl 4 for a good 2-3 minutes because the enemy jungler got 1 level ahead of me, invaded, pushed me out, then just farmed my jungle. I couldn't find monsters to farm, and ganks were hopeless because I only had my smite upgraded with no other items. I wish they had the same catchup XP mechanic in the jungle that they do with laners....

ModCaliCoastReplay5/17/2018, 5:45:05 PM3 votes

The jungle was really pretty good before they switched up the scuttles. Now it's random, unfair, and prone to ridiculous starvation-snowballing that is just awful for junglers.

I don't get why Riot keeps fixing things that are not broken instead of listening to player feedback. Nobody wanted this. Everyone I know playing this game misses, say, Season 5-ish or thereabouts...

Hold Ma Baguette5/16/2018, 11:55:50 PM2 votes

It's still to early to make a post like this give it atleast a week, no likes having their role nerfed but tbh it was about time jungler's early game impact was tuned down.

Hügö5/16/2018, 6:57:22 PM2 votes

Had a game. Most fed player allways 2 leves behind. Nice

xJLx MCHammer5/17/2018, 12:28:01 AM2 votes

I have no idea what these changes are

I understand they needed and wanted to stop early jungle pressure but this is feel different.