A more balanced existence of Grievous Wounds here.

kJs·Nov 3, 2015·80 votes·2,202 views

Instead of an instant 40% healing or w/e the number is, it should be an effect which you need to stack to become effective so that you don't instantly destroy all healing the target opponent gets. Take the idea from Black Cleaver's stacking passive and turn it into something similar, like:

Every other (2nd or 3rd or 4th) autoattack a target is afflicted with (a stack of) Grievous Wounds (max stacks 10 or something along the lines).

Grievous Wounds reduces all healing received by 5% (or a figure just as low) for 2 seconds. . __ It doesn't have to exist in that exact form, all that I'm suggesting is to make it so that Grievous Wounds is a debuff that you need to stack to be effective.

25 Comments

Potato DocNov 3, 201512 votes

Its a good idea

the 10 stacks is too much for even every other hit, its nearly impossible to hit that cap

instead it should be more like 10% per attack up to a max of 4 stacks and applied on every hit, makes it battle effective, but not 1 shot and you instantly have 40% less heal

xFrostKnightxNov 4, 20151 votes

Considering Adc build attack speed with graves being an exception (since 1 shot = 4) This is unbalanced and makes very little difference when it takes only 2 seconds to apply 40%. ADC already do the best sustained damage, why give them Grievous wounds shortly after their first attack?

OP idea is better because it takes into account that ADC and most AD's will build crit and attack speed. So the conditions for hitting the full 40% should be much MUCH higher.

Potato DocNov 4, 20151 votes

Yes ADC will use it, but at that point it limits its use to ONLY adc, which is really unfair to a bruiser or assassin who wants to use it too. They could make the ratio different like they did with devourer such as every other hit with ranged attacks but I still feel like OP's suggestion is way to under powered and would never actually see game play because it is so weak even if it did fit the niche of being used against drain tanks. Even back when executioners calling was still in the game it was rare to see people buy it, even against a mundo or swain, people would just prefer ignite since its battle capacity was much higher, and they gave the same healing debuff.

Deep Terror NamiNov 3, 20154 votes

Good idea.

SpoofghoulNov 3, 20152 votes

yes and no longer then 2 seconds indeed to force focus fire to reduce healing

bobsenbobNov 3, 20152 votes

I also had an idea, maybe attacking a different target takes off the previous targets previous wounds, thoughts?

kJsNov 3, 20152 votes

Might seem like a good idea when picturing teamfights but won't change anything in lane or 1v1 duel scenarios. Like laning against a Vladimir and Mundo or Aatrox will be much much easier, too easy.
Executioner's Calling being 800 Gold in the PBE (if it comes out live like that) almost all AD champs will take it early against Heal based supports so you'll have a decent AD team all taking Executioner's just to be able to beat them with it.

ahferroin7Nov 3, 20151 votes

I thought I heard that GW was being adjusted to only apply to self-heals and health regen...

kJsNov 3, 20151 votes

I don't think so.

killd0zerNov 3, 20152 votes

incredibly hard to communicate in a game where fights last 4 seconds. You pretty much already can't tell how effective black cleaver is.

kJsNov 4, 20151 votes

There's nothing wrong with Black Cleaver IMO. It actually affects teamfights quite heavily when you have a high AoE physical damage dealer in your team with it like Wukong or Renekton.

KoKobotoNov 3, 20152 votes

I agree with this change, it would also make the title "GRIEVOUS wounds" more actual, as repetitive attacks are more grievous :)

SoMNiaNov 3, 20151 votes

Black Cleaver's 6 stacks are hard to max sometimes. Live MF's Impure Shots is next to impossible to use effectively, because it takes 8 hits to max out (and they nerfed Devourer). Requiring 20 attacks to reach full effectiveness would essentially remove it from play. Who's not going to be dead after 20 attacks anyway? A super fed tank against an ADC who fell behind and has no arpen?

How about this: Grievous Wounds stacks equal to X% of the damage dealt by the attack that applied it. GW prevents X% of healing (same as the original stacks applied) until all stacks are consumed, or until Y seconds pass, and then it's removed. Additional GW attacks refresh the duration and add to the total, but it still falls off completely Y seconds after the last GW attack. Is that better? That way, your healing doesn't just get cut in half when you get clipped by one attack in the middle of a fight.

Essentially, a percent of GW attacks would be stored as an equal percent drain on immediate healing until it was depleted. Put another way, damage from GW attacks would require X% more healing than normal, but wouldn't stop any healing beyond that.

kJsNov 6, 20151 votes

So a heal cap %?

SoMNiaNov 6, 20151 votes

I figure it would work the same way as current Grievous Wounds, but only for the damage actually done by GW attacks. All other damage would heal normally. Maybe that's unnecessarily complicated, though. Better to be able to tell at a glance how much healing you're going to get.

kJsNov 6, 20151 votes

Yeah, I had to read that multiple times to get my head around it.

LatetotheRaceNov 3, 20151 votes

Like someone else mentioned, they're making grievous wounds accessible for everyone, so it doesn't matter.

Ulquiorra995Nov 4, 20156 votes

It matters because having long-duration, easy-to-apply GW on an end-game item means that champions like Aatrox Soraka Swain DrMundo are taking a one-way-ticket to shit tier.

Say Swain with Morellonomicon fights Yasuo with new item. One million dollar question - who is going to get screwed far more by GW? But since it's accessible to anyone, it's balanced, right?

And with all the new lifesteal/spellvamp items you'd be crazy NOT to have this item even when not facing a sustain-heavy team.

KaeblenNov 3, 20151 votes

So, summoner 14 has issues with this. Would Ignite apply 1 stack per tick, 1 stack per second, apply only 1 stack period, or just jump up to the maximum stacks of Grievous Wounds?

ayNigerianPrinceNov 3, 20153 votes

Ignite is fine and balanced how it is.

kJsNov 4, 20155 votes

Could easily make an exception for Ignite, it's a Summoner Spell after all. Riot can figure something out with it.

VerxintNov 4, 20151 votes

This could just be part of the passive for Mortal Reminder. The other Grevious Wounds is Katarina which does a lot of ticks quickly. Maybe she could apply stacks over the duration, then ignite is just ignite because ignite.

WhiteGuyWannaBeNov 4, 20153 votes

Just state "applies full stacks of grievous wounds and deals X true damage over 5 seconds"

Kitsuki05Nov 4, 20151 votes

this is like what I've been suggesting even before the new item was announcing. After X many attacks onto a target, they should receive grievous wounds. Not just, one hit and "Bam" now you can't heal. This way the only reason someone is getting afflicted is because they are engaged in combat, and there are actual ways to fight someone with a grievous wounds item and not lose all of your healing.

kJsNov 6, 20151 votes

Yeah. It's not exactly a genius idea. Basically copied from how Black Cleaver works.