illaoi is proof that too much counterplay can exist

Big Lincoln··7 votes·854 views

and that it leads to very binary gameplay

each spell being telegraphed and delayed, slow and easily avoided or interrupted means that she has to be disproportionately punishing to the effort she puts in. because that's basically all she is -- a punisher. the degree to which illaoi telegraphs herself makes it so that a lot of her power isn't in her actually outplaying you, sometimes not even in her playing well, but you misplaying against her. this leads to frustration for both sides because she ends up with extremely lopsided outcomes based on one single ability in her kit. she is probably the fairest champion in the game, but is that really a good thing?

tl;dr buff illaoi

22 Comments

Otherworldz4 votes

Illaoi is one of the most frustrating champions to lane against are you high.

Just because Koreans won't play her because she lacks mobility spells does not make her weak in the slightest.

Big Lincoln2 votes

frustrating =/= unfair

a champ who is designed around baiting you into moving into a position where she can blow you up is bound to be frustrating

Joxcab1 votes

Until you check actual statistics and realize she's shit tier because people would have to be either bad at the game or extremely occasionally unlucky to ever get hit by anything in her kit.

Raw power doesn't mean shit if she can't ever hit anyone with it.

PermabannedGaren2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WAnfRZvY,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-05-24T07:22:47.056+0000)

binary

each spell being telegraphed and delayed, slow and easily avoided or interrupted means that she has to be disproportionately punishing to the effort she puts in. because that's basically all she is -- a punisher. the degree to which illaoi telegraphs herself makes it so that a lot of her power isn't in her actually outplaying you, sometimes not even in her playing well, but you misplaying against her. this leads to frustration for both sides because she ends up with extremely lopsided outcomes based on one single ability in her kit. she is probably the fairest champion in the game, but is that really a good thing?

tl;dr buff illaoi

Thread shouldn't be getting downvoted. It's true. Illaoi is so easily counterplayed she can't be properly balanced. Either the reward for landing her shit is not high enough to justify the unreliability, or it is so high she's insane. Needs a rework.

Big Lincoln2 votes

I think her E ought to be changed and provide a buff to herself instead of the Vessel debuff.

Since even the Vessel debuff, which is supposed to be her reward, can be counterplayed by standing by one tentacle and denying her more spawns. I never really cared for the minigame, either; it's not satisfying to ME as much as the whole 'tentacle-slammy' stuff she does

LyingOnLine2 votes

Too bad E is none of those things, and is disproportionately punishing anyways.

tl;dr: not until E actually has meaningful counterplay

Escheton2 votes

{quoted}

Too bad E is none of those things, and is disproportionately punishing anyways.

tl;dr: not until E actually has meaningful counterplay

The counterplay is either just fight her or run away and have some regen. Or ya know, buy early boots, maybe movespeed quints and just dodge it. It's really easy to predict.

Big Lincoln2 votes

dodge it stand behind minions just destroy the tentacles she pulled them to DOTs tick the timer down extremely fast, making it hard for her to destroy it early (making Ignite stronger against her than any other top laner) fight her for your spirit while not standing directly on top of it disengage, accept the vessel, then stand by one tentacle to prevent other spawns (they only swing once per 10 seconds)

seems like meaningful counterplay to me

Joxcab1 votes

Sidestep. Hit her back. Break the tether yourself early.

Which you do depends on the extenuating circumstances. Stop whining just because you're bad.

Escheton2 votes

I will say though. No matter how much you read and counterplay her in lane. She will become a massive teamfight threat that prettymuch singlehandedly disallows you to fight in the jungle. That has value.

Joxcab1 votes

Until you just walk out because there's nothing stopping you? Or you just CC and kill her?

KVbqbFsC8e2 votes

Rework, not buff. I like playing League, not tentacle dodging minigames.

AFilthyCaitMain1 votes

As someone who plays Illaoi a lot i think shes good where she is. Although on the weaker side this patch.

Irelia Bot1 votes

You spelled rework wrong.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

She is forcefully being balanced around her high counterplay, I actually like their direction with her.

Big Lincoln2 votes

i never said she should change drastically

i'm just giving a critical perspective as an illaoi main of why she tends to swing enormously hard from either being unbeatable or free gold in games

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Nothing wrong with her being unbeatable, people need to learn to rush boots, sidestep, and asking the adc after laning phase to buy executioner's calling w/o completing the full LW item. While she still have high base dmg and teammates to make up for her weaknesses she isn't so weak nor strong where she needs "addressing".

KONO RUBICK DA1 votes

funny thing is that people said this for Bard on release and now he's balanced

Big Lincoln2 votes

doesn't have nearly as much counterplay considering he can just auto you with his high dmg meeps to line up his Q/pretty much guarantee he'll land his ult unless you use mobility or flash. it's even easier with the new spellthief quest shit since it gives you the phage boost now. but it's fair-ish tho since he's got pretty short range. bard is a very well designed champ besides that, one of my favorites :]

illaoi is also not nearly as versatile as bard is, she can't do crazy outplay stuff like him with portals, ult and stun. she's gonna do one thing (damage) and she does it very well. i really only want her E to change, because i don't think the debuff offers interesting or satisfying gameplay for either party and it could be a lot better than what it is now. i think she's completely fine otherwise and has a very solid base kit, and I actually like how counterplayable she is. means i can bully people in all-chat for outplaying themselves :^)

KONO RUBICK DA1 votes

i don't care about illaoi, i don't even know her kit i never read her abilities

i'm just saying that people said "wtf bard, you can dodge Q, step on heals, go through the portal with him and his ult is so delayed" and then they buffed bard 15 times and then bard is fine now

illaoi kit might just be the same, she may have too much counterplay but if riot buffs her she would be fine

anyway, like i said i don't know a single thing about illaoi, this thread just reminded me bard

Ralanr1 votes

Sion was proof long before Illaoi. His Q has a minimum knock up range for Christ sake.

Dragon Master1 votes

No that's Karthus.

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