Syndra should be rewarded for landing abilities instead of spamming abilities

The Deckowner·Jan 16, 2017·32 votes·1,739 views

Right now ultimate scales off the number of spheres she has around her. This encourages her to spam abilities on cooldown brainlessly, because even if she miss all those abilities, she will be rewarded by having extra spheres for her ult damage. The "syndra misses everything but one shot adc from full" meme is not only a meme, it Is actually happening everyday.

Now imagine if Syndra ult damage scales off the number of abilities that damaged the target previously. Wouldn't that feel a lot more fair?

48 Comments

NahDogSolRahnJan 17, 20174 votes

she was fine before the MYMU.

The DeckownerJan 17, 20171 votes

she was because she used to take skill.

SononeaJan 17, 20171 votes

Most champions used to take skill. Now its all just point and one shot

The DeckownerJan 17, 20171 votes

it used to be super hard for syndra to obtain a large amount of spheres, now you literally just need to spam q.

Sraeg2013Jan 17, 20172 votes

It was always about spamming Qs.

Get CDR.
Press Q three times.
W the oldest sphere.
Press Q again.
Ult.

It's still the same exact flowchart, except the window to ult is 3.6 seconds instead of <2 seconds before MYMU.

LordGeovanniJan 17, 20171 votes

what changed

The DeckownerJan 17, 20171 votes

sphere duration

LordGeovanniJan 18, 20171 votes

i remember that change she still needs either a damage nerf or massive mana cost nerf with either with a cooldown nerf

RequiemsfireJan 16, 20173 votes

It's amazing how she can miss every single one of her abilities and still one shot someone.

LauchmelderJan 17, 20176 votes

It's amazing that people actually think that. Unless she's fed that's not happening.

Sraeg2013Jan 17, 20172 votes

Yasuo is unkillable, uncatchable monster with infinite mobility and who makes your Nexus explode by merely loading to the game with Yasuo in it.

This is the Gameplay and Balance. The most naive sheeps reside here.

They only saw that video of Syndra with 5 and a half items, including 3 penetration items, Flash + 7-sphere ult Tristana with 30 MR and no additional HP for 2000 damage.

The DeckownerJan 17, 20171 votes

There is literally only 3 magic penatration items in the game and I have never seen in my 3 years of playing league a syndra building all 3 of then.

Sraeg2013Jan 17, 20171 votes

I did.

Like 3 days ago on the Boards in the Gameplay section.

The DeckownerJan 17, 20172 votes

hum you sww 1 troll went with an inefficient build, that must mean all syndras build the same way am I right?

Sraeg2013Jan 17, 20173 votes

While item 3151 's burn passive isn't generally spectacular on Syndra it's still +80AP, +300HP and +15 Magic Pen. That's hardly inefficient.

Even it if was, calling somebody a troll just because of that, speaks volumes about you.

No, really. At this point you are on the verge of raging and already started shitposting.

Ulquiorra995Jan 17, 20172 votes

Actually she can do that... if you are stupid enough to let her use abilities for nothing except stacking spheres for 10 seconds and not punish her. I reckon all the people who complain about her one-shotting someone with just R are those who allow her to do that.

sit kidJan 16, 20172 votes

I would probably just reduce the duration her Q stays on the ground

It would kind of feel weird that she doesnt throw all her spheres at her target, but the W changes were in the right duration to remove the no-brain 7 sphere ultimates

Sraeg2013Jan 17, 20172 votes

Sorry to burst your bubble, but multi-sphere throw is no longer a thing and without it, it takes 10+ seconds to set up a perfect ult.

Anything less and she won't be able to kill even the squishiest ADC without full build, if she only was to land the ult.

The DeckownerJan 17, 20171 votes

←←)(→→

dont let ur math teachers see your post, it will make them wanna kill themselves.

Ulquiorra995Jan 17, 20172 votes

Before bashing someone else's math, be sure that you are able to do basic calculations yourself. Syndra's Q has a 2.6 second cooldown at 40% CDR. This means that setting up a 7 sphere ult takes 4x2.6 = 10.4 seconds. She'll never instagib someone with 4-5 sphere ult unless she achieves literally impossible amounts of AP. And if you allow her to miss everything for 10 seconds and not punish her then you fucking deserve what is coming to you. So, yes, the "Syndra misses everything and still oneshots an ADC" is a meme if she plays against anyone who is not braindead.

And please do keep ignoring how Riot actually fixed lots of her problems with W changes: she can no longer hold 3 spheres or perform a lane-wide stun. But you allowed her to waste her abilities on nothing without punishing her and she killed you so she must still be broken.

The DeckownerJan 17, 20171 votes

let me teach you some math.

lets say you are lv16, ulting a lv16 vayne, with 6 spheres(which takes less than 10 seconds to set up).

6 spheres will have 6*180=1080 base damage.

vayne has about 1800 hp at lv 16.

1800-1080=720

720/1.2=600

you think 600ap for a lv16 syndra is iimpossible? lol do you even play this game?

Sraeg2013Jan 17, 20172 votes

At level 16 Vayne has:

1700 HP
30 MR + 24 MR (let's assume scaling runes)

Let's assume Syndra has:

22.8 flat m.pen (runes + Sorcs)
35% m.pen

Knowing the above and disregarding masteries for a moment Vayne has:

1909.1 effective HP against magic damage

6-sphere ult does:

1080 base damage
120% AP scaling damage

Substracting ult base damage from Vayne's EHP:

829.1 EHP left

That means Syndra needs:

690.9 AP

Syndra's "average" glass cannon build:

Along with +15AP from runes, +14AP from Natural Talent (at level 16) and Rabadon's multiplier:

673.3 AP

Conclusion #1:

Considering all % damage increasing masteries, Syndra at level 16 with full build with a 6-sphere ult is BARELY able to kill a level 16 Vayne with no defensive items.

Not to mention it takes at the very least 30 minutes to reach full build and that's only when getting EXTREMELY fed.

Conclusion #2:

Your math is garbage.

The DeckownerJan 17, 20171 votes

Considering all % damage increasing masteries, Syndra at level 16 with full build with a 6-sphere ult is BARELY able to kill a level 16 Vayne with no defensive items.

So Syndra IS able to oneshot Vayne with ult. ok, anything else?

Sraeg2013Jan 17, 20173 votes

Were you born that special or did you have to study?

Yes, she is able to do it. With full glass cannon build, to an underleveled Vayne with zero defensive items.

Just like every AP champion with 700 AP.

Ulquiorra995Jan 17, 20172 votes

I don't think he'll take rational arguments. He only sees the "Syndra one-shots you" part without taking into account the part which says "she needs 10 seconds to set that up and anyone with half a brain will punish her if she wastes her abilities."

Sraeg2013Jan 17, 20171 votes

At first he seemed somewhat reasonable.

Then it became pure shitposting.

IncarcerationJan 17, 20171 votes

I'm sorry, but you are absolutely incorrect. I may be wrong so feel free to point out whatever you need to point out.

First of all, you did all that math just to get it wrong.

It's 27 magic resist, assuming she actually took scaling runes. 9*3= 27
Even with that math, I got 808.65 ability power with her final build.
2231-1901= 300
I haven't checked everything else, but there might be more incorrect math, especially with effective health. That is pretty tricky.

Second of all, you did not take all of the factors to account.

Luden's Echo passive makes Syndra deal a total of 2231 damage with her ultimate.
Most Vayne players do not usually take scaling runes because they want to survive the early game. All data from websites proves this.

Third of all, this situation isn't very likely because a Syndra is in a solo lane, therefore there should be a level gap between Vayne and Syndra, and we also assumed that Syndra didn't land any balls. This situation is very unlikely and not gamebreaking, but it is obvious the damage of one spell is overtuned if this situation is possible.

Ulquiorra995Jan 18, 20171 votes

You replied to the wrong guy, so you might want to fix that if you want an reply.

And yes, it's a very unlikely situation. Near impossible even, I'd say - to have Syndra dance around for ten seconds doing effectively nothing while the enemy does the same is something you'll never see. And that's why it shouldn't be a balance factor. It's not the only spell in the game for which you can say that its damage is grossly overtuned if you just look at the damage. Viktor, for example, can deal a total of 1300 + 230% AP with just his ultimate - but you'll almost never see someone stand in it for its full duration.

Ulquiorra995Jan 17, 20172 votes

Nice job twisting my words. She can one shot you with 7 spheres, which takes too long to set up if she misses everything. She can't one shot you with less unless she has unrealistic AP.

I should ask you if you are the one who is playing the game. Do you have an idea what 10 seconds mean in a game as fast paced as this? And kudos to that Vayne twiddling her thumbs and politely allowing Syndra to set up without doing anything.

In your example Vayne is idly sitting around and allowing Syndra to set up for ten seconds. Now here is what will realistically happen if Vayne isn't braindead or AFK: she will see Syndra wasting her abilities, engage and two-shot her with a Q+shiv+AA combo which takes less than two seconds to pull out, needs no setup and has no possibility of missing.

Sraeg2013Jan 17, 20172 votes

dont let ur math teachers see your post, it will make them wanna kill themselves.

Ironically all of my math teachers liked me. Except for those high school moments when they tried to check my homework, which I never had.

As for the math, Ulquiorra995 already provided you with an appropriate equation.

From myself I'll add that without a multi-sphere throw, the window for a 7-sphere ult changed from "virtually infinite" to 3.2 seconds with 40% CDR. That is assuming Syndra used Force of Will (W) on the 4th oldest sphere. Otherwise the window is actually only 0.8 seconds.

Also if she missed this window, she has to do everything again.

←←)(→→

You suck at formatting.

Let me fix that for you.

←_←)(→_→

Done.

The DeckownerJan 17, 20171 votes

(￢д￢)I literally just proved it doesn't take 7 spheres to oneshot an adc above, and you are attacking me on how the mobile board eats certain symbols, lol.

Sraeg2013Jan 17, 20171 votes

(￢д￢)I literally just proved it doesn't take 7 spheres to oneshot an adc above

Literally. Proved.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2012/12/really-tell-me-more.gif

Please, tell me more.

and you are attacking me on how the mobile board eats certain symbols, lol.

Underscore ("_") is a part of Boards formating and if used in pairs will become invisible, instead making the text inside the pair italic. Same with -, *, ~ or with multiple # and *.

ZT XperimentorJan 17, 20172 votes

Which she was before her rework in the mage update, and you know what? She wasn't complained about before her changes then either! But you won't hear riot admit screwing it up.

Sraeg2013Jan 17, 20171 votes

Her MYMU, before it was released, was complained about, though.

ZT XperimentorJan 18, 20171 votes

Not nearly as much beforehand though.

Sraeg2013Jan 18, 20171 votes

Actually much more before than after. Until she was picked in LCS, that is.

Then all the hell broke loose.

Which was that much ironic, that neither her winrate nor pickrate went up, because of that. Instead she was on a small, but stable incline ever since the MYMU.

ZT XperimentorJan 18, 20171 votes

Flavor of the month because the majority are sheep.

Chimp JokerJan 16, 20171 votes

I feel like the syndra's whole limitless power vibe she gives off kinda pales in comparison to veigar's passive.

The DeckownerJan 16, 20171 votes

TBH veigar's power ramp up way too slowly, syndra can oneshot with a lot less ap than veigar does.

Chimp JokerJan 16, 20171 votes

Even if that's the case, if I was falling behind, I'd at least scale better for late game. But I can't complain about her nuking power :^)

The DeckownerJan 17, 20171 votes

yah but veigar can only do syndra level oneshot very late in the game, while syndra can already win the game with that much time.

Lord BoltrixJan 17, 20171 votes

I'd honestly like to see changes to reward more technical and methodical play and shift her from complete focus on her ultimate. -Force of Will's Transcendent Effect changed to cut it's own remaining cooldown by half if it kills an enemy. -Unleashed Power: At 650 - 700 / 725 / 750 range, Unleashed Power hurls all the Dark Spheres in an area around a targeted enemy. Under 650 range, Syndra utilizes all the spheres around herself in an area and hurls them at a targeted enemy. Unleashed Power's Transcendent Effect becomes the reduction of the ultimate's cooldown by 2 seconds every time an ability is used.

These numbers are just toss-ups, but the ultimate change combined with the Force of Will's Transcendent Effect change would encourage better Syndra's players to be more methodical with their dark sphere placement and ultimates in order to make the most out of it, depending on their preference of safety over damage, and at the same time it would give enemies some form of counterplay: at max range Syndra would have to keep a lot of balls around an enemy to utilize the ultimate to its max at the longest range and thus would give enemies an obvious tell for a way to avoid taking a shit-load of damage from her ult, and if Syndra were gathering a large number of spheres closer to herself, it likely meant she was looking for an opportunity to ult once you dared to get close enough.

This would emphasize the amount of skill needed to utilize her at her max because of the necessity to account sphere proximity to herself or her enemy when contemplating the usage of her ult, and even the more common access to her ultimate throughout the game would be tempered again by the requirement to manage the location of her spheres and proximity to herself or their target.

HigeJan 17, 20171 votes

you do realize she has mana costs right? O.o I've seen many syndras spamming their abilities to set up their ult only to be oom right when they most need to cast R lol

The DeckownerJan 17, 20171 votes

You do realize mana is a non-factor once you get morello/blue buff right?

HigeJan 17, 20171 votes

Morello? it gives 400 flat mana and restores mana on kill only, how does that solves mana problems?

and blue buff is meant to be a temporary buff, every mage is dangerous with it, your focus on Syndra seems like you were steamrolled by one. it's simple, stay away from her until she has to blow her ult on someone else

The DeckownerJan 17, 20171 votes

Syndra has about 1400 base mana at level 18 and her Q at max rank cost about 80 iirc. Doesn't really seem like an issue to me.

HigeJan 17, 20171 votes

at level 18 mana is not a constrain for any champion, but at lvl 18 pretty much any champion can blow up another, damage in the game is the highest it's ever been (defense is also higher for the record), Late game is determined more by positioning than actual mechanical skill, if the Syndra player overextends she will die since she's made out of paper, on the other hand if the adc overextend, Syndra will blow him up.

Consider then that actually nuking someone requires at least 5 spheres, so she must cast Q twice, that's 160 mana, if she wants to keep the oldest sphere alive she must cast her W which is 100 mana, for a total of 260, pretty good so far, her ult is also 80 mana at lvl 18 so it goes up to 340, not too shabby considering that you get 400 mana from morellonomicon.

this can only happen in the span of around 10 seconds without cdr (with 40% it goes down to 6 ish) so as you can see, Syndra can't choose to nuke someone, she needs to be ready for it when a window of opportunity shows up, this means that every 4 seconds (3 sec with 40% cdr) she must be casting her Q with or without a target

1400+400 = 1800 1800/80= 22.5 casts of Q available with her mana pool + morello

considering mana regen you can bump that number up to maybe 25 casts of Q before she depletes her mana, but you gotta subtract the mana cost of her other skills since she needs to use them in order to get close, to keep her spheres alive and to cast her ult:

W = 100 E = 50 R = 80

1800 - 230 = 1570 1570/80 = 19.625

lets round that up to 21 available casts with mana regen, still pretty cool right?

21 x 3 secs of cd= 63 seconds in total

If Syndra SPAMS her skills like crazy, all you need to wait is 1 minute and 3 seconds before she's oom. This of course is only taking in consideration Morellonomicon, at lvl 18 Syndra has a lot more than that and these numbers inflate quite a bit. The point is though, a Morellonomicon alone won't solve your mana problems.

If by a miracle you have Morellonomicon at lvl 6:

Level 3 Q: 60 (two casts = 120) Level 1 W: 60 Level 1 E: 50 Level 1 R: 120

120+60+50+120 = 350 total mana for a full "nuke" combo

Mana pool at lvl 6: 621 + 400 = 1021

take mana from W, E and R: 1021 - 60 - 50 - 120 = 791

Casts of Q available: 791/60: 13.18

15 casts of Q taking in consideration mana regen,

Time until Syndra goes oom if she spams Q: 15 x 4 secs of cd = 60 seconds

Considering that in lane she needs to farm and will use Q occasionally, she won't be topped off in mana 100% of the time, so you can take 1/3 of those numbers away. It is NOT that oppressive and morello will of course help but won't solve all her problems, she IS heavily mana gated considering she needs to keep her spheres rolling if she wants to be safe.

It's simple, play safe until she has less than half mana, avoid her stun to the best of your ability and don't get harrassed for free, if you engage her when she has more than 1 sphere, you deserve to loose the trade and even potentionally die to her ult, you KNOW that at that point she's the strongest and you still choose to fight anyway.

LordGeovanniJan 17, 20171 votes

sure but i still dont like being forced to move every 3 seconds from a nuke just for it being in my area it not only damages you but sets up her e too which also chunks though arguably leveled later and stuns you. her R isnt the only thing broken.