Why %Health Damage is Stupid on Tanks

Mannny·Jan 23, 2017·6 votes·1,503 views

Why are you creating tank champions with %Health DMG Instead of giving them more utility????? Tanks aren't supposed to combo kill an adc, they should be Teamfighting monsters with tons of CC to bring to the Table. is a great example of this, he doesn't have too much damage, and provides CC for his team. is broken because she has too much utility along with crazy amounts of damage. quit inserting %Health dmg in every rework you do, its stupid and makes the game more unbalanced than it already is.

35 Comments

Elite4RunnerJan 23, 20175 votes

TANKS

https://media.giphy.com/media/DeogflZGx6EkE/giphy.gif

Take damage and deal damage.

Zero Skill TankJan 23, 20174 votes

Shen has more % damage than Poppy does tho (14%/5s vs 18%/5s).

I'm not exactly sure when CD on Shen's Q starts ticking, but in the worst case it's about the same.

MannnyJan 23, 20172 votes

Shen isn't combo killing like poppy lmao.

Zero Skill TankJan 23, 20176 votes

Combo killing has nothing to do with % hp damage, as we clearly see in this case.

five oh tree Jan 23, 20172 votes

fucking obliterated his argument in 2 replies. I wish I could upvote this a thousand times.

MannnyJan 23, 20172 votes

Shen has %Health with the downfall of being generally in damage overall, it needs to balance out. If Riot is going to make tanks like Poppy and Maokai have %Health they are going to be unbalanced.

Zero Skill TankJan 23, 20172 votes

Shen has lower damage than other tanks, because huge portion of his power budget is taken by stand united. He is much more prone to balance issues than Poppy and Mao ever were, reaching near-100% pick/ban ratio in competitive on multiple occasions.

Poppy and Mao were thrown off-balance by CoC, not by their damage itself.

RequiemsfireJan 23, 20171 votes

Shen's current state suggests tanks need to deal some kind of damage to succeed.

Snowman ArcJan 23, 20171 votes

Guess you haven't played vs Shen with Titanic Hydra + Thornmail then. He can pull out 3 attacks in under 1 second.

Elite4RunnerJan 23, 20174 votes

The ADC is intended to be a glass cannon who maintains safety through positioning, teammates, and vision.

Literally ANYONE on the enemy team is supposed to be able to out duel the ADC in a 1v1 if the game were properly balanced.

SEKAIJan 23, 20173 votes

Someone being capable of taking punishments doesn't simply equate them to being a tank, nor are all tough characters meant to be tanks.

Bruisers and Juggernauts (and Fighters) aren't Tanks.

MannnyJan 23, 20173 votes

A Tanks purpose is to TAKE dmg not DO IT! I can understand champions like Darius and Garen who need that damage to be viable, but this 300 armor full tank Maokai shouldn't be bursting my adc down to 1/3rd health in one rotation.

SEKAIJan 23, 20176 votes

{quoted}

A Tanks purpose is to TAKE dmg not DO IT! I can understand champions like Darius and Garen who need that damage to be viable, but this 300 armor full tank shouldn't be bursting my adc down to 1/3rd health in one rotation.

Bursting an ADC down to 1/3 is hardly impressive damage output, considering they have nonexistent defence nor do they build defence generally to begin with.

Not to mention most of the tankier characters can't actually burst that unless they're quite fed/ahead.

five oh tree Jan 23, 20171 votes

To be fair though, I'm not sure where he got 1/3rd from, as a full maokai rotation with just IBG will take 60% of a squishy's health lol.

MannnyJan 23, 20172 votes

There's a reason Assassins aren't popular.(Asside from Rengar and LB) Tanks do their job but better. I can harm adc's crucially with a tank yet stay alive for the next 15 seconds easily, and that's not fair. And they are doing this while going 0/5 in lane.

SEKAIJan 23, 20173 votes

{quoted}

There's a reason Assassins aren't popular.(Asside from Rengar and LB) Tanks do their job but better. I can harm adc's crucially with a tank yet stay alive for the next 15 seconds easily, and that's not fair. And they are doing this while going 0/5 in lane.

Not really I would say. Assassins aren't actually pushed out by Tankers (not as a whole anyway), but by Mages, as far as I know, since Mages burst better (since most to all Assassins' burst windows have been widened in the assassin-rework) and afar from a much safer distance than say Assassins would be during combat.

Snowman ArcJan 23, 20171 votes

No offense, but when I play as ADC, I'm more scared of a Talon roaming than a Maokai.

Elite4RunnerJan 23, 20174 votes

{quoted}

A Tanks purpose is to TAKE dmg not DO IT! I can understand champions like Darius and Garen who need that damage to be viable, but this 300 armor full tank shouldn't be bursting my adc down to 1/3rd health in one rotation.

Tanks still need to be offensive in order to be effective, otherwise they would simply be ignored.

Snowman ArcJan 23, 20171 votes

Again, if the tank didn't deal any sort of damage, then it would be completely ignored. Otherwise, it needs to be applying CC every single second. Maokai only does that 1/3 of the time with his W-Q combo. The rest of the time, he needs to be dealing some damage so that he won't go unnoticed.

lilpokflufJan 23, 20172 votes

Maybe adc players should stop rushing runaans and get themselves an attack speed item that actually helps them solo a tank. It's such a poor excuse when there are tools that destroy tanks and they always rush runaans every game even when they get wrecked

Snowman ArcJan 23, 20171 votes

The problem is that most ADCs need some sort of waveclear early. Mid laners, espeially mages, have it, top laners have it either via their kit, or via Sunfire Cape, whereas ADCs can only rely on Hurricane.

RalanrJan 23, 20171 votes

Wasn't Shiv supposed to be the ADC waveclear?

Elite4RunnerJan 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Wasn't Shiv supposed to be the ADC waveclear?

The 4 Zeal items have 4 targeted beneficiaries (although not exclusive)

item 3046 Melee duelist item 3094 Ranged duelist item 3085 Ranged siege (wave clear) item 3087 Melee siege (wave clear)

As I said, they are definitely not exclusive to these categories. You can absolutely purchase Statikk on a ranged champion, but it is optimized for melee champions as mobility tends to be more important to them.

RalanrJan 23, 20171 votes

Beyond Yasuo I don't see many melee crit champions building Shiv (and Yasuo builds PD over it).

Elite4RunnerJan 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Beyond Yasuo I don't see many melee crit champions building Shiv (and Yasuo builds PD over it).

I didn't say it was the best option, but that is the classification it was designed for.

There aren't that many melee champions that build attack speed and critical strike chance, that have trouble with, or need to prioritize wave clear at the moment.

TormentulaFeb 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Beyond Yasuo I don't see many melee crit champions building Shiv (and Yasuo builds PD over it).

Tryndamere

RalanrFeb 5, 20171 votes

Well fuck Tryndamere.

Snowman ArcJan 23, 20172 votes

It's ironic how you consider Shen ok, while he also has %max HP into his Q lol.

%max HP is fine, as long as it's nothing ridiculous. Maokai has a base value of around 12% I think. That's like 240 damage on a 2k HP ADC, which drops down even more after resistances. His Q probably deals more damage. Poppy's Q deals 14% if they both hit, which is slightly more than Maokai's.

Carries have way more %max HP damage in their kits, if they do. Vayne has true damage alongside it, Varus has a lot of it too. Some of the ADCs also build BorK that helps shread down high HP enemies at the start.

I don't see how it's much of a problem, especially if the % max HP isn't flat, but requires offensive stats to be relevant.

five oh tree Jan 23, 20171 votes

If their damage is lowered past a certain point, anyone with lifesteal will literally just ignore them. Unless you want to give every tank champ in the game a taunt of some sort? I suppose that idea in itself is interesting, and maybe it'll happen with the vanguard class update (whenever that is). For now though, tanks are fine. Except poppy. Fuck that champion.

RalanrJan 23, 20171 votes

%health damage helps them to solo lane and jungle. It also keeps their damage relevant but not strong.

It doesn't take much to kill the ADC though.

MannnyJan 23, 20173 votes

Maokai Poppy Nautilus Malphite Zac if these champions do "relevant damage" you must be on something lol. These champs 100-0 like an assassin with very little fall back.

RalanrJan 23, 20171 votes

I blame ADCs being really squishy than anything else. They can't 100-0 a bruiser unless extremely ahead.

They also lack the escapes of assassins.

Snowman ArcJan 23, 20171 votes

I don't think all of the champions you mentioned have %maxHP damage in their kit, which again devalues your starting point. ADCs are weak right now, because they lack defensive options, we get it.

RequiemsfireJan 23, 20171 votes

Why would you use Shen as an okay example when he has % health damage in his kit? Not to mention he's one of the weakest toplaners last I checked which makes your example somewhat poor.