While we are waiting for shaco's vgu

sirwaterfles·Oct 11, 2016·3 votes·1,150 views

Can you pls gut him like you did with old poppy and yorick? While his entire kit is anoying to play against his Q is the textbook example of unfun, 0 counterplay cancer. A long range flash that turns you invisibly for quite sometime. Atleast with wukong and twitch you can try to figure out where they are giving the point where they turrend invisable. And seeing how you wont be able to hug a pinkwarded bush or pinkward the jugnleentries against him anymore i cant imaging a more frustrating thing to play against.

33 Comments

AstôlfoOct 11, 20163 votes

tfw someone is crying about shaco

sirwaterflesOct 11, 20162 votes

Are you honestly telling me that you enjoy playing vs a shaco?

AstôlfoOct 11, 20161 votes

It's not the most enjoyable experience, but so what? He's easily manageable provided you actually know how to play against him. He is fine balance-wise.

sirwaterflesOct 11, 20162 votes

Yes he is fine balancewise . I almost never get spanked by a shaco but almost all games against really tedious and frustrating. That was exaclty the reason why they gutted yorick and poppy until they reworked them so people wouldnt have to deal with their anoying frustrating gamestyles.

AstôlfoOct 11, 20161 votes

Except old Yorick/Poppy was FAR, FAR, FAR worse. No.

sirwaterflesOct 11, 20162 votes

jungling vs shaco is the equivalent of laning vs old yorick.

KeepeOct 11, 20161 votes

Last I checked, Yorick and Poppy usually ended a game unkillable or NEAR it. You catch Shaco, he deserves all the death you give him. Because unlike Yorick and Poppy, the best way and most efficient way to handle Shaco is to make his Health Bar go away. He engages you, he used up his escape. Kill him. Problem solved.

sirwaterflesOct 11, 20161 votes

Yorick was no harder to kill then a darius or sion. The reason why they kept him gutted was because he was sooo frustrating to lane against with him spamming his ghools. Same as shaco is really anoying early on. And making his healtbar go away is only if he doesnt make yours or yours adc's disapear first and you still got enough damage to blow him up. His already used his escape-argument reminds me of rengar with his old ult defenders that used the exact same argument to say that therefore it was fair.

AstôlfoOct 11, 20161 votes

Not even close. You obviously understand very little about old Yorick/Poppy and Shaco if you think that.

sirwaterflesOct 11, 20161 votes

I know fully how obnoctius they could be because unlike you i actually used to play them

AstôlfoOct 11, 20161 votes

Mmk. And you still understand nothing, apparently.

Old Yorick's minions were incredibly hard to target, nor were they worth targeting usually due to how fast they died. Yorick could also endlessly poke/farm with them because of how low cost and cooldown they were. He also had very good sustain in lane. This meant beating him in lane was near impossible, and at best, you'd try to not die so he wouldn't snowball.

Old Poppy was just "hurdur ult and kill everyone while being essentially vulnerable in all meaningful aspects".

Shaco has massive amounts of counterplay and is far more vulnerable than either.

But please, tell us how incredibly knowledgable you are.

KeepeOct 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Also there is almost 0 trickery about his q.

Well he certainly does not understand much about Shaco.

L Psy KongrooOct 11, 20162 votes

You mention that Wukong and Twitch let you see the point where they turn invisible so that it's easier to tell where they might be going, but you can do the exact same thing with Shaco. Just look for a huge orange puff of smoke, visible even in the fog of war, to signify his approach. Also, Shaco's Q actually has a shorter range than Flash, so saying it's "a long range flash" is misleading. Riot is most likely going to be nerfing his Q somewhat during the update, but as a Shaco main I'll thank you not to spread lies about his power right now. It might give Riot the wrong idea.

Shaco's counterplay lies in out-smarting him, not being mechanically better, which is something a lot of players have trouble with. Naturally no one wants to admit to being an idiot, so they blame it on Shaco's "toxic" kit instead. But all that's required to beat Shaco is to be smarter than him. That's it. Don't fall for his tricks and you'll be fine.

sirwaterflesOct 11, 20161 votes

With wukong and twitch they still have to walk while shaco can be everywhere in a sec so there is almost 0 outsmarting there since the only thing there is to do is trow a skillshot in a random direction and hope for the best. And im not saying he is op at all i am saying that he is really really unfun to play against.

L Psy KongrooOct 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

With wukong and twitch they still have to walk while shaco can be everywhere in a sec so there is almost 0 outsmarting there since the only thing there is to do is trow a skillshot in a random direction and hope for the best. And im not saying he is op at all i am saying that he is really really unfun to play against.

What part of "shorter range than flash" don't you understand? Shaco cannot be "everywhere in a sec", his stealth doesn't last that long. Twitch's stealth lasts 8 whole seconds at max rank AND gives him a speed boost. His Q also has an 11 second cooldown, so once it's down, he's not going to be using it again for a while. Just because Shaco Qs doesn't mean he's automatically uncatchable.

sirwaterflesOct 11, 20161 votes

The range twitch can be half a sec into stealt is a teemo while shaco can almost be out of sweeper range.

S0kaXOct 11, 20161 votes

You used the word "cancer", http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/d9/d98c3bcbb3bfa7843b6ad5d77bdb0a3c8b97ccbea48c8c460a5d34ea8a5a32ba.jpg

JbelsOct 11, 20161 votes

Nah, Shaco's Q is only cancer right now. It'll be 0 counter play Cancer once pink wards don't do anything against it anymore

AgeOfTheMageOct 11, 20161 votes

moat of the time shaco is squishy af, just cc him(like every champ in the game XD) but he does use trick, he mainly uses his q as an engage disengage tool and it comes on cd once he is revealed, meaning once he uses it as an engage, just go crazy. it's also easy to tell if he's a clone, it won't use abilities and it will try to turret dive you. oracle alteration is nice for countering shaco as it reveals his bushes, tip: almost never follow shaco into an unwarded bush, he can use his traps, then q away. i do have a really funny thing i like to do as shaco but i'm not gonna reveal it :3 the moment he turns invis, pop that oracles, and if you hve cc and he reappears just hit him with it because he has no escape, he will try to ult and then q after going into a bush btw.

i like ap shaco, i have never played ad shaco before, also you can invade at lvl one as his first ability will be his boxes, meaning he will be low ish on mana, and have no escape or damage abilities, the fear is also pretty short at lvl 1 giving him a rough start can screw him over for the rest of the game, shaco can easily gank at lvl 3 if he wants to, but he won't do as much damage meaning he's jsut a squshy champ here to help pick up a kill(if ur low) or scare you away from a turret so they can push. late game with ap shaco is a nightmare for the enemy btw(for ap at least), so try to destroy him early

i once went against a full health tryndamere as a low health shaco in the river by baron, the 3 bushes allowed me place boxes, E for the damage, q into another bush as he check the bush i was just in to find a trap, and when he almost killed me, i ulted and q'd, the clone exploded killing him.

i hope this helped!

sirwaterflesOct 11, 20161 votes

I have no problems dealing with shaco and i know how to play against him. My problem with the champ is that he is really not fun to play against and is going to get even more anoying once pinks dont pick him up anymore on his invading if he walks into the jugnle using q.

AgeOfTheMageOct 11, 20161 votes

true, but there are alot of annoying champs such as: zyra, heimerdinger, yasuo, master yi etc.

AgeOfTheMageOct 11, 20161 votes

also, at lvl 3 shaco likes to apply early pressure to lanes(most likely mid or top)

KeepeOct 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yes he is fine balancewise.

So. What the heck is your issue here?

sirwaterflesOct 11, 20161 votes

Read the next sentence.

KeepeOct 11, 20161 votes

I did. You find him tedious to play against. As if his entire purpose in the game is based around trickery.

sirwaterflesOct 11, 20161 votes

If he wasnt such a mess of a champ they wouldnt fully rework him now would they? Also there is almost 0 trickery about his q . His boxes and ult now that are tricky things with some outplay in them.

KeepeOct 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Also there is almost 0 trickery about his q.

That... I... I mean... What?

sirwaterflesOct 11, 20161 votes

Trickery means you trick me into taking the wrong desicion. With his q you can be anywhere in a wide circle which leaves my choises into just walking away or trowing trow a skillshit in a random direction hoping for the best. All bad decisions. And now you atleast have the decisions of where to pinkwards against it but with that gone it is just a means to get into the enemys back unseen with nothing he can do about it.

KeepeOct 11, 20161 votes

That Q only lasts a few seconds. So depending on where you are, you have a choice to make. Is he running away from you, behind you, or making a beeline for the jungle? So. Yes. Trickery is involved here.

AgeOfTheMageOct 11, 20161 votes

there are ways to trick peple using your q, using other abilities with your q help that a ton

sirwaterflesOct 12, 20161 votes

Is that really trickery? With his ult you have the choise between 2 options and you have to guess on how they move and his box he sets upfront and then tricks you into walking into it but his q he can be instantly in a wide area and all that leaves you is taking a wild stab in the dark and hope for the best. Let me make the comparison to outplay. Say morg vs sej. If morg uses her q and sej needs to use her q to dodge that isnt an outplay thats just trading q's while if sej dodges it by walking back and then uses her q to engage thats an outplay.

AgeOfTheMageOct 12, 20161 votes

true, an outplay is more or less, defeating someone who has an advantage over you. i think?