Like old WW ult, Ryze snare, Malz ult, etc. Can we not turn these into skill shots? New WW ult is still REALLY effective but now it's not just teleporting BS, he actually has to hit a target, and it can be intercepted. Why can't we do this with other things?
To be honest, I do think any Point-and-Click abilities should be changed to skill shots, but those that are also CC are more important imo. It's more forgivable on melee champs, though.
Starcraft243ver8 votesPoint and clic abilities are natural counter to dash and blink abilities.
Everytime you turn an point and clic ability into a skillshot ability you make the champion less powerfull against champions with dash and blinks.
In order to compensate for this lose of efficacity, you have to make the skillshot more powerfull than the former point and click ability.
And this is how you turn a champion state to : weak vs dash/blinds and too powerfull versus immobile champions.
RenownedWheat421 votesNo one is ever moving so much that it's impossible to hit them with a skill shot. Even Yasuo with a massive minion wave to dash through can easily get caught as long as you know the character enough to know where he's going. The thing about point-and-click is that they work on EVERYONE, not just mobile champs, and punish them all equally.
Ralanr6 votesThey don't punish them all equally. Immobile tanks are durable enough that getting stunned isn't a death sentence.
RenownedWheat421 votesGetting stunned isn't a death sentence if they're not getting focused. But in a team fight with a last whisper, the tank will be easily shredded. If they're not dead from the stun/snare, they'll be damn close unless they have their own solid CC/heal to use while snared (Maokai, WW, Sion).
Ralanr7 votesAnd a squishy character would be dead.
Not punished equally.
RenownedWheat422 votesA squishy character would die in that situation from literally any stun/snare without the lifesteal+damage to back them up.
Ralanr7 votesSo they are indeed punished harder by the CC.
RenownedWheat421 votesIn no way are you defending point-and-click CC here.
Who do you think will still be alive after being focused down from a 2.5 sec Malz ult in a team fight? 2 sec snare from Ryze? Neither of these require any skill to land and their duration is high as hell. Even Warwick, who has good CC on his ult, only suppresses the target for 1.5 sec and it's a skill shot.
Ralanr5 votesI'm not really defending it so much as pointing out that not all champions are punished equally by it.
Targeted hard CC is frustrating, but with all the high mobility champions around, it's a bit bareble since only it and grounded actually counters mobility.
RenownedWheat422 votesIf I'm able to get Yasuos dashing through creep waves with Morgana Qs and I'm barely in the low silver elo, I think it's fair to say that skillshot CC is still VERY effective at its job.
When I say point-and-click punishes everyone equally, I mean that it's not any more effective against mobile champs than it is against immobile ones. In fact, it's SO much easier to pop a Maokai W on a Garen than a Vayne, or a Mundo instead of an Ezreal. Yes, squishies will die quicker from any CC, but that's not point-and-click specific.
Ralanr2 votesIt's easier to use on immobile but the results are more effective on mobile.
You rooted Garen, congrats. He probably didn't have much of a chance to get away if you can hit him.
You rooted Ezreal? Basically a neon sign telling your team to murder him since you're probably not going to catch him again with his blink.
They are effective on both but more effective on mobile champions because it makes it easier to catch them. It's the opposite of slows, which are effective on both but more effective on immobile champions because they don't have ways to really ignore the effects of the slow.
PureSilvrr1 votesAnd that squishy is out of position.
Maximum Morde3 votesI'd just quit I'd there was no point and click cc. I value reliability. If I know what is going to happen as a reaction to my action, I can make better decisions. Otherwise I can't and that isn't entertaining to me
RenownedWheat422 votesIs Morgana's Q with it's large hitbox unreliable? Swain's or Viktor's W? Hell no.
"I can only play if my skills always hit" is honestly a weak rebuttal.
PureSilvrr1 votesYour basically saying, I want it so that 
W only sometimes knocks up, or if her ult only sometimes pushes back. Or
Stun only sometimes stuns or if 
only sometimes gave vision. Do you know how bad that would be?
RenownedWheat421 votesReally not at all what I'm saying. Using a skill shouldn't guarantee that it hits unless there's no other way around it. TF vision has NOTHING to do with what I've mentioned, nor does any of Janna's kit. Annie is only situational.
PureSilvrr1 votesYour argument is "I Can only play if my skills always hit" aka if my skills work is a weak rebuttal, but would you play if your skills only worked situationally?
RenownedWheat421 votes"If my skills work" isn't the same as "if my skills always hit."
If I miss a Morgana Q, it still works, I just didn't aim properly. If I ult and dash past the ADC as WW, it still works, it just didn't hit.
How is that hard to grasp? You're literally arguing nothing here.
Maximum Morde1 votesI didn't say I can only play, I said I only want to play. Big difference. I'm a tactician. The fun for me is in the planning and then seeing it work, rather than planning and MAKING it work.
Titanium702 votesYou don't like to play against reliable spell - we got it.
However - do you have an idea about Leagues origin?
Its a RTS! A type of game where nearly everything you do has a 100% reliability. And just like in a RTS you won lanes and game in League with superior Resource Managment (both earned and spend), mindgames and adaptability. New League has nearly nothing in common with those old values.
I now longer can feel like outsmarting an opponent - it's just about waiting for him to screw up and than snowball out of controll.
What Point&Click has to do with this? A reliable Kit is always predictable, obvious mistakes are less common. A reliable can deal low amounts of DMG and still feel strong unlike any skillshots. Additionally snowballing is alot harder if 2+ opponents can actually shut you down with their reliable Kits.
Besides that: Is new League or old League better? Well money speaks I guess - the majority wants this fast paced games where APM/Reaction-creeping Kits grant an illusion of skill in a ping-loaded enviroment. But as a Chess. Strategy and RTS player I can see nothing but huge clownfiesta of DMG and Mobility.
Nymzo1 votesWhat about Leona's q? It is a point and click yet I don't see the problem.
Or Urgot ult for that matter.
RenownedWheat421 votesLeona is at least a melee but I still feel like hers should be a skill shot. I think Urgot's Ult should be as well. Just landing an ability because someone's in range feels a little cheap to me.
Melee champs should have some leeway, though, I think. I should have clarified that at least.
EDIT: I forgot what Leona's Q was for a moment. I'm fine with it as-is.
Nymzo1 votesLeona has to land her e, a short range skillshot that immobilize for a very short time the target. She doesn't need another skillshot, there's also her ult.
Urgot is also low range.
I think what you hate is long range point and click hard cc
RenownedWheat421 votesI got Leona's kit wrong since I don't ever play her, but I don't actually have a problem with her Q now that I took a look at it. It makes perfect sense since she ALREADY has to be in your face to use it. That's my bad.
Urgot's ult might be low range, but he has lots of auto-hit potential and his ult stuns and THEN displaces you, offering him damage reduction on top of it.
Nymzo1 votesIf Urgot was a strong melee champion like a tank or juggernaut or even a bruiser, yes this ult would be scary on paper.
The problem is that Urgot is strange a mix of a marksman, a mage with a few tanks stats which means you never want to be in the middle of the enemy team. And he's almost as slow as unmounted Kled to boot.
RenownedWheat421 votesI don't want this to become a discussion where it sounds like I'm whining about Urgot, but his e+q enables at LEAST two free Qs with no aim/skill required, his autos and Qs reduce enemy damage, he gets REALLY valuable harass potential with his ult, and if that DR isn't enough he's still got a W.
Literally the only thing in Urgot's kit that requires any aim is his E, and that's AoE.
Mizuki Zahra1 votes
ult should be a skill shot cause the click kill is just too op also 
ult would be fun if it was a click to pick where it goes lol
Xavanic1 votesAs the game currently is, we need more point and click cc, Champs like lucian/ezreal/Vayne/yi/ahri are too mobile for their own good
RenownedWheat421 votesI'll give you vayne since 2 sec CD is absurd, but the others are on decent enough cooldowns and will be easy to hit with skillshots once those are down.
Ralanr2 votesYasuo, Lucian, and Kalista.
Xavanic2 votesezreals blink is up about as often as vayne q, his e has a 7 sec cd, and gets reduced by 1.5 seconds every time he hits q, then factor in the fact his q has a 1.7 sec cd, meaning if he hits it, its basically up again, so in 2 seconds he hits 3 qs, meaning his e is up again
Cats Are Food1 votesHow about... turn Quick Cast off. Completely. Remove it from live games and return it to Bot games where it started. This makes people actually have to Activate, target, click... instead of throw every ability they have on one champ in under a second.
This increases the time between seeing an issue, and locking it down. (Instead of the people snaring Yi mid Alphastrike, or ending up stunned before flash animation even ends , etc)
RenownedWheat421 votesI don't see how slowing things down overall addresses the point of my thread.
Cats Are Food1 votesPoint and Click CC isnt the issue. The issue lies in the fact that all you have to do currently is point. The delay someone has from being surprised out of the jungle and such is what balanced their ability to lock down specific targets on a whim.
It doesn't slow the game down. It forces reflexes to be the deciding factor if the ability lands. Not an automated beyond human system.
RenownedWheat421 votesYou add SUCH a small window of time in between the indicator and the cast that it might as well be negligible though.
Quick cast is entirely reflex-focused. There's no way it's automated-beyond-human if we're still the ones using our abilities.
Cats Are Food1 votesSee my comment about Rengar. I've played games since the 80s. Most in the past 15 years are FPS or PVP oriented. My reflexes, and response time to sudden actions are more than fair - it's how I win games.
I can stop a leaping Rengar... one out of ten times. When you watch a Ryze snare Rengar mid-leap 9 out of 10 times... repeatedly since this went live... or numerous other instances of the same concept there is an issue.
I've played LoL since the beginning. Either players magically became ten times faster since this was turned on, a major coincidence, or...
Cats Are Food1 votesWhen you think about a team fight, and everything that happens in them... then realize that all of that activity took place in under five seconds. Small windows of time is what makes a difference.
Cats Are Food1 votesExample. Look for videos containing Rengar since Quick Cast went live. Watch how many times he leaps out of a blind bush... only to be stunned or snared in midair.
He travels extremely fast, and this is one of his strongest capabilities.
Cubíx1 votesI feel like PnC CC abilities have a place in the game. I don't necessarily like them but its suppose to be a way to counter high mobility champions. champs like zed, fizz, katarina, fiora, camille, ekko, yasuo, and many other champs could be even more of a threat if there wasn't a consistent type of character to counter those champions.
I mainly play champs with high mobility and would love no PnC hard CC abilities but thats because I don't want to get shut down and I just want to run rampant. That said, I guess if you dislike that kinda stuff maybe you'll want to get QSS more often since its mainly the counter build to deal with those types of abilities.
RenownedWheat421 votesI play a lot of Maokai (PnC snare) and Kayle (PnC slow), and played a lot of WW when he had PnC suppression and even so I don't really agree with them being in the game.
At the same time, I play a lot of Yasuo and Yi, so I guess you could argue that's why I want PnC gone.
Cubíx1 votesI understand, I truthfully don't really play a lot of PnC hard CC characters, I can't really think of any off the top of my head (I did use to play lissandra but not since like early season 6). But I do play a lot of mobile champs (ekko, fiora, katarina, etc.) and although I get frustrated with ryzes or malzahars stopping my fun, I understand that players choose those champs to counter high mobility.
Tundra Hunter1 votesActually I don't understand why people think point-and-click hard CC has no counter. I mean, in particular, old ww ult. You could interrupt him with a hard CC: that was a counter. Also, when his ult was up, you simply had to be careful about his ult range if you had no ally with hard CC nearby. New ww ult can actually still be interrupted with CC, and on top of that it is very easy to dodge (just need flash or any dash).
I main ww, and I usually ult after landing his e (fear), or on top of a teammate CC, or simply as a gap-closer. If I know enemy has no flash and no dash, and no nearby ally with hard CC, then and only then I might use ult "as intented", which happen very occasionally.