"If everyone was warding, I wouldn't have to buy sightstone."

RenownedWheat42··88 votes·4,893 views

What your support says when your team's trinkets look like this: item 3340 item 3364 item 3340 item 3363 item 3364.

In no world is that enough wards. Sometimes you'll see another red or blue instead of a yellow. It's NOT ENOUGH. Vision is important.

I main support, but lately I've been branching out and jumping into every other role. Whenever I do, I'm stuck with the "I shouldn't have to build sightstone" supports who ALWAYS argue that vision is a whole team effort. You know, while it certainly IS a whole team effort, I can only place so much vision when I have red trinket and can only put out control wards, and even then, DENYING vision from the enemy is my contribution to the team effort. Even if I start yellow, I swap out to red at level 9 because even if my team doesn't ward, the enemy sure as hell ALWAYS does.

Unless you're playing in the lowest of low elo, you shouldn't really be in a situation where your entire team still has yellow trinket come late game. Your carry can't be walking up to bushes to ward, so they should DEFINITELY have a blue. Support should have sightstone, and thus should have red. Jungler should have red as well for too many reasons (counter jungling, ganks, etc). So that leaves your top laner and MAYBE your mid laner who would want to keep yellow trinket. It just isn't enough.

Yeah it won't always end up with trinkets looking how I listed them above, but if your whole team keeps yellows while the team builds a variety you're at a disadvantage imo.

I might have missed a few points or been wrong about a couple of things (If I AM wrong about anything, feel free to let me know) but it's just a thought I had after more games with an "I don't need sightstone" supp.

176 Comments

Mecha MaIphite48 votes

I don't really get why some people get so defensive when asked to buy a sightstone; it's only 800 gold and it opens up safer opportunities for early drakes while also protecting you from a 4 man clown fiesta. Most support items are pretty inexpensive anyway, so having a lower income shouldn't be a problem.

Ralanr6 votes

Eh...I buy it but there are times when I'd rather get to rush an item that gives me better scaling.

Weird thought process for supports I know.

EndlessSorcerer7 votes

Considering I would outright camp bottom lane as the jungler whenever I noticed the support didn't purchase Sightstone, I've never been able to justify delaying/skipping it.

While I could be slightly stronger in 2v2 fights, not purchasing Sightstone would basically ensure we ended up in 2v3 and 2v4 fights.

Trinkets and Control Wards only help so much (especially if you have to outright ask your ADC to ward).

Besides, the ability to place multiple wards quickly is extremely useful. If I see the enemy jungler top, I can ward the entirety of their bottom-side jungle with a Sightstone (as opposed to one ward with my Trinket).

Also, it lets you upgrade to Oracle's Lens.

Ralanr2 votes

I'm sure enough bot laners see 4 man ganks that they start thinking,"What's the point?"

Not that I disagree with you.

Aptest4 votes

naa.

i see a 4 man gank coming, what goes through my head is this:

I need a rod. a large one. a needlessly large one.

because vision doesn't get me out of the incoming dive.

Damage, however, does.

Kirius Dark11 votes

dumb scrub. Vision prevents you from getting into that dive situation in the first place

Aptest6 votes

Naa. they brought 4 people, the yellow submarine is playing in the background.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75sAIIiLAhc

The push is happening, there are only two choices: abandon the tower, or killl the diver noobs.

and to that i say:

I am brand, The support of fire, the bringer of the inferno, under my tower there is only, fire and death deus vult!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw2GiQ8vsrs

Aptest4 votes

I understand your down vote. you do not like Sabaton.

That is fine.

Hemulen Magi1 votes

I personally upvoted you. People have gotten an unhealthy misconception that they get to decide what items the secondary bot-laner (or support if you must) builds, what champion they pick, how they play, etc. These kind of choices are up to the individual player, no matter what role they queue for.

Trying to force the support to play a tank or a healer is no more acceptable than trying to force the jungler to play a tank or the mid laner to play a mage. People can ask their teammates to play a different class to fit a desired composition or build a certain way, but there is no obligation to comply.

Also, people who think that sightstone must always be rushed don't even understand the intricacies of the role. In my opinion, sightstone should usually be bought when you're ready to start roaming and it's better to rely on trinkets up until then. So if my roaming gets delayed for whatever reason, then I might not end up getting a sightstone until mid-game. Sightstone really doesn't provide much benefit over trinkets alone if you're pinned down under your turret. Also, I've been pioneering Shaco support for a couple seasons now and his boxes + trinket are more than sufficient until you start roaming a lot.

Essentially, people ought to realize that the "support" is not the team slave. The support is another player who makes his or her own decisions pertaining to playstyle and build. Also, people ought to realize that the meta is not a law and is not protected by the rules of the game.

Hemulen Magi1 votes

By the way, I like the Sabaton music you posted too.

Aptest2 votes

I guess my point was:

Getting 4-manned is usually an event that is very telegraphed. The jungler comes. They push the wave as a unit of 3, the mid laner waits in the tri brush and comes in when the dive is ready.

I don't need wards to see it coming. This event takes 30 seconds to brew and is obvious as the sun on a clear day. The only question is, do i stay and defend? What makes me think, yeah bitches, come at me, is the amount of combat stats on my champion, my team's map movement at the time....

...and how little i think of the enemy jungler.

Also: im fucking trying to meme here, not be absolutely serious. At least one person gets it.

Jax the Stampede2 votes

now that's not true. I guarantee every single one of us in this thread has died to so many ganks that were seen coming in advance. A good jungler actually will pursue his gank in a means that will compensate for if they have wards. I literally do this by walking at a 45 degree angle between where they are and where I expect them to go. It works out plenty, even when they obviously saw me coming. It's happened to me plenty on the reverse side of the situation as well. To sit here and claim that the vision would have prevented the deaths as though it's some kind of magic guarantee kind of makes you sound like a newer player to me. In my opinion, if you care that much about vision you should learn to read the minimap and situations in order to figure out where the enemies are without having vision. It's not that hard, there are only so many paths to places. You go ahead and call people scrubs and be hateful though. I'm just going to continue living my life following zero of these "rules of the game" and still having 20+ more wins than losses in any given que at any given time. At the end of the season I'll autoburst my way up to the rank I want like I usually do. I'll continue to skip tiers every time I reach promos, and I'll continue to maintain that elo (if not improve it) while only building sightstone half the time as support which is my main role, and choosing to trust myself over doing the things I "have to do". :) Sure does feel good to be an individual rather than a sheep. Even if I started to lose every game ever, I'd still not be a sheep. That's something a win rate will never save you from.

Redesignated4 votes

When you don't have Sightstone, you expect to be getting camped, and you play around it if you're smart. The supports that skip Sightstone and don't play with that knowledge don't know how to play the role well (e.g. autofill).

Sun Wu Ryuumoku22 votes

no need to rush it first in all games... but definitly u must buy it.

nice table1 votes

neh not really no, i do always buy it when i support but you don't always have to buy it

astronomer16 votes

It's recommended you should, it can win or lose a game

nice table7 votes

could be said for any item

Ralanr18 votes

Definitely not Ohmwrecker.

Redesignated3 votes

Gold income and expenditure for supports is a touchy subject; they get the least in the match, to the point of building and finishing items at a demonstrably slower pace than both standard laners and junglers alike, despite your primary items being cheaper. Sightstone itself gives them shit for stats, just to make things even more annoying

SciFi Scrivener3 votes

Would be nice if sightstone gave some mana regen boost (say +5-10%), or maybe +300 health (instead of +150). Maybe a movement increase out of combat to help with the roaming and warding process.

Kirius Dark2 votes

item 2303 item 2302 item 2301 Give all that and don't cost much more to upgrade from your base support + stone and are often superior to the non ward version of the support item

Glory ln Death2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Level 18 Feeder,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1AQ0Ep83,comment-id=0001000100000001,timestamp=2017-05-18T17:11:27.463+0000)

item 2303 item 2302 item 2301 Give all that and don't cost much more to upgrade from your base support + stone and are often superior to the non ward version of the support item

item 2303 wat

item 2302 probably true

item 2301 wat

Though, with the new Quests on the support items, the amount of "wat" is lessened a bit. Even still, it's hard to justify the lack of the actives and Ruby's item active cdr (since items like Locket and Redemption are almost mandatory for supports).

Fairyfleur2 votes

They might not be superior as an item, but they open up a slot. If you were to buy Frost Queen, Talisman of Ascension, or Face of the Mountain, you're forced to buy Ruby Sightstone. Although, FoTM is usually always better than Eye of - whatever it's called, I can't remember.

Glory ln Death3 votes

Eye of the Equinox.

Considering how strong support items with actives are, Ruby Sightstone in itself is usually a better item than the Eyes. If they tone down active items, there will be more room for debate. As it stands, though, Face of the Mountain is basically always the right choice, Frost Queen's Claim is usually the right choice unless you're a "support" mage who wants to stack AP, and Talisman of Ascension is sometimes the right choice (the only one that's kind of iffy, to be honest).

Magearna2 votes

Agreed 100%. People don't realize that Ruby's passive is better than any of those 3 upgraded support items.

R0XTAR6 votes

Coming from a support player and bot lane main I wholeheartedly agree (even though I'm in the low ELO universe), I sometimes make the same argument but it is everyone's job to ward if you haven't changed your trinket. While it is the supports job to go around and ward key points, the mid and adc SHOULD be warding the most practical spots.

But Support should always rush a sightstone no matter what.

Hyperiön7 votes

Because they removed the green wards, and a necessary blue trinket and sweeper,

That leaves 1 ward per player other than support, and Top who ususally keeps yellow trinket.

Everyone can't ward, because there isn't any space for wards when you have full inventories.

needHymn6 votes

[deleted]

Sun Wu Ryuumoku20 votes

thats why u'll stay silver

needHymn3 votes

[deleted]

Knoyle18 votes

It's gonna be rough when reality hits you because you won't see it coming.

Fairyfleur5 votes

What a pun

NineTailedMystic2 votes

Wait, when did they have a cherry blossom icon?

Fairyfleur2 votes

Just yesterday

Sun Wu Ryuumoku7 votes

It'll be easier for u with item 2049. But in the end u do what u want. Sighstone isn't what u should always buy first item, but its what u shoud always have in your build as support.

needHymn4 votes

[deleted]

Glory ln Death12 votes

Then you don't know how to read the situation.

notice me Sin pi4 votes

op.gg data tells me otherwise; he's stuck in silver not cuz of no-sightstone supporting, but cuz he plays other champs Vi Soraka Evelynn he sux at

ForFoxSakes9 votes

Mastery doesnt mean you're good. Just means you play a shit ton, just like how it's taken you close to a 1000 games just to hit mid silver. AKA play 1000 games very poorly

needHymn2 votes

[deleted]

Mig899 votes

And they're telling you that's why you're not climbing. With Sona as squishy as she is, a SS is one of the best items she can pick up because avoiding a bank all together is much easier than fighting your way out of one. The extra wards help setup ambushes too. There's no reason not to get it.

needHymn2 votes

[deleted]

Magearna2 votes

http://puu.sh/vUg0Y/68a963b4bf.jpg Decent win rate, fine I'll give you 57% over 7 games and 54% over 560 as decent. But there's a reason you probably die so much, not just on Sona but on EVERY champion you play in every game you play. You barely ward and you never buy pinks. All they're trying to say is if you buy Sightstone, you'll probably die less because you can actually take preventative measures to not die. But go ahead and don't listen to anyone who is trying to help you. Doesn't matter WHY you don't build Sightstone.

Unless your plan to win is to suicide every game. In that case, continue what you're doing.

ForeverLaxx2 votes

What this means is that he wins or loses based on his team's performance when having to carry him. Seems he's fine with that. It's also clear that he never uses the minimap, which explains why he doesn't bother warding.

RaffyQuack2 votes

does he not build boots either because of sona e or something lmao.

i'm a shitty silver sona main as well but at least i build ss and boots xd

ASE81 votes

{quoted}

And they're telling you that's why you're not climbing. With Sona as squishy as she is, a SS is one of the best items she can pick up because avoiding a bank all together is much easier than fighting your way out of one. The extra wards help setup ambushes too. There's no reason not to get it.

I dont buy sightstone and go full damage on sona and I can create as many diamond 1/master accounts as I want

u mad?

Dextix LT2 votes

And i just beat LeBron James with one hand behind my back while blindfolded.

ForFoxSakes4 votes

Even more sad thing is despite you playing so much Sona you're building with coin rather than spellthief, then opt for the non sightstone route where the active does basically the same thing as your E. Pretty much the worst support item route you could possibly take

And yes the point is that you arent climbing so it should click in for most people that something is very wrong

Fargo794 votes

i love it more when as a support your team tells u to ward more.. meanwhile they have 2 trinket wards sitting on them.. when this happens i say "use your trinkets or i sell my sightstone.."

This may not make any situation better but it also makes them realize that they can ward and should be warding as well..

I still dont know what makes a good sightscore or vision score.. some games ill have 30 wards placed 4 destroyed and get a 90 other times ill have 20 wards placed and 2 destroyed and get 110.. is there certain locations of warding that u score more points??

MagicFlyingLlama3 votes

Is this about all the trash Elementalist Lux people flooding bot lane, who start dorans, never buy wards of any sort, build deathcap as a first item and run down lane to 1v2 over and over?

More from Gameplay

More by RenownedWheat42