Boards›Gameplay

Please give junglers some kind of vision option

Barkley··1 votes·826 views

Trackers Knife Machete + Talisman

Idk, figure out the cost -- whatever's fair.

Active:

  • After 3 minutes of game time lockout (kinda like stopwatch), activate to place a tracker ward (reduced vision radius ward that lasts for 20 seconds. Something like the ghost poro radius) Only one tracker ward may be active on the map at any given time for your team. If a tracker ward is placed while another exists, the old one is replaced by the new one. Dying tracker wards DO NOT proc ghost poro. No cooldown. Ward on demand. If the tracker ward is destroyed by an enemy player, it goes on an increasing cooldown. 30/60/120 seconds.

  • If I'm about to do drake, I can throw down my 2 trinket wards, a control ward, and a tracker ward, and I've got pretty good control of the objective.

  • If a player is lucky enough to find my tracker ward and kill it, they should be rewarded for that and I should be punished.

  • This helps champions like Jax and Lee Sin go back to their iconic ward-hopping selves.

  • This gives players an option to opt into a more supportive style jungle role.

  • This relieves some of the pressure from supports to complete their gold items quickly, which can cause risky play. (Sometimes)

  • The reduced vision radius and capacity stops it from being overwhelming ward-spam. (Along with the punishment if found)

  • The punishment for finding it could create some interesting fights over it/contests, which adds a bit of gameplay.

The fact of the matter is that I need vision as a jungler. More than I'm getting right now. People just don't ward enough, and trying to tell people to ward more is like trying to tell a brick wall to be a taco. Its just pointless, silly, and never results in the outcome you want (but wouldn't it be cool if a brick wall became a taco?)

If I want to sacrifice combat stats for vision, I should have that option. I think this is a pretty fair solution.

9 Comments

TheUrbanKitsune2 votes

Tracker's Knife was already a thing. It was removed because it was definitively the best jungle item to take and was making pro play boring with how much easy access to vision teams had. Games were slower and took longer because teams had near perfect vision.

I can't say I totally agree with the reasoning because I absolutely loathe how pro-play focused Riot's balance team is sometimes. But fact of the matter is that since Riot removed the jungle vision item for this reason, I assume for this same reason they will not be replacing it with another vision item.

You still have a trinket early game + 4 vision plants on the map. You can also buy control wards.

Barkley1 votes

Yes thank you I'm fully aware of that. That's why I chose the name, but I'm starting to think that was a mistake from the instant downvotes.

But if you actually read the post, you'd notice that its remarkably different, and not nearly as ward-spammy as its previous iteration.

I guess titles and first words are everything, and I chose the wrong ones. God forbid people actually read before they jump to conclusions.

TheUrbanKitsune1 votes

I read your post in its entirety before I left my comment. You just seemed to not understand WHY Tracker's Knife was removed. The reason for it's removal is the same reason we are very unlikely to get another jungle vision item. If you actually read my post, you'd notice that's all I was saying. Maybe read my entire comment before crying about getting downvoted.

Barkley1 votes

It was removed because of the ability to just spam wards due to its low cooldown and high capacity. Also, at the time, you could just buy vision wards in the shop -- can't do that anymore either. How about we both stop with our defensive condescending bullshit right here and now, I'm over it. Lets just discuss like adults. Firstly, I'll apologize.

My version of it solves a lot of those problems, with the reduced radius and single-serving capacity, only allowing one on the map ever, and implementing a punishment cooldown if/when its found.

Combined with the lack of wards in the shop, I'd say a lot of the problems of the previous trackers knife wouldn't be an issue.

TheUrbanKitsune1 votes

You're the one who started with the accusatory passive-aggressive tone. My first comment was pretty matter-of-fact, if you chose to take it personally that's on you.

And I'm not saying your proposed change is a totally bad idea. It could work, though if its too under-powered it may just be overshadowed by the other two already existing jungle items regardless. The thing about stuff like this is it will always be under-powered/undervalued in a solo queue situation while simultaneously being much much stronger in pro play. Solo queue League of Legends and professional level League of Legends might as well be two different games entirely. And because of how valuable vision is in a very coordinated setting I highly doubt Riot would do something like this again.

To put things into simpler terms: Vision is too strong in professional play and not strong enough in solo queue. If we were to get an item like you propose it would have to be so under-powered that it wouldn't be worth taking in the first place.

Barkley1 votes

I've said for years that pro balance needs to be an entirely different version than casual balance.

Might as well be two different games, as you said.

And I absolutely loathe the fact that this game is balanced around pro play -- like you also said.

But there has to be a happy medium here for something like this. There IS a solution to this problem, and while my take on it might not be exactly right -- I think its a good step towards figuring it out.

Junglers do not have adequate access to vision. Period.

Also, my reply was not directed at you -- more of a generalization. Safe to say we both mistook each other.

TheUrbanKitsune1 votes

Seems we are generally on the same page then. I can agree with most of what you're saying, but I do believe junglers have adequate access to vision, regardless. They arguably have access to more vision than any other role barring support. It might not feel that way, and maybe some day you will get your new jungle ward item, but there are things that can help you feel less like you need to ward every single bit of the map in the meantime.

-Learning how to track the enemy jungle's position is important. If you have a general idea of where they are pathing you can play around that fact without needing to know their exact location on the map.

-Ward quality is also a big one. It's more useful to have better wards than more wards.

-You don't need two trinket wards, a control ward, and a jungle item ward to do dragon. A control ward is more than enough if you just make sure you are doing it at a good time (lanes have priority, enemy bot lane is dead/backed, etc).

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

dont every one get trinkets ?

and you can get a vision ward ?

i think the limit of vision wards being placed at one time should be increased over all not

Teh Song1 votes

To be honest, I often find myself thinking there's too much vision as it is, so I'm certainly against anything that adds more.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Barkley

If you're the guy who votes "no" on a remake
Gameplay148 comments
218
votes
Please upvote this thread to raise awareness of Top Laner Syndrome.
Gameplay217 comments
188
votes
Stop resetting my runes to presets.
Gameplay65 comments
175
votes
League is in a critically bad state right now.
Gameplay187 comments
140
votes
Can we, as a community, drop this whole "Holier than thou" attitude?
Gameplay174 comments
131
votes
A public service announcement to ADCs everywhere
Gameplay99 comments
121
votes