i honestly wouldnt mind giving up on the initial damage reduction on the activation effect, if the tenacity scaled up to 100% (0.75s cc of complete immunity) at rank 5.
this would eventually allow to use the ability vs. knockups and other displacements.
woodvsmurph2 votesYes, full damage lifesteal garen's running you down and being completely invulnerable to cc. Now that's an idea to get behind... said no one ever. Irelia tenacity was reduced if she was in an even fight - why would garen get complete cc immunity?
Critmaster Garen2 votesYes, full damage lifesteal garen's running you down and being completely invulnerable to cc. Now that's an idea to get behind... said no one ever. Irelia tenacity was reduced if she was in an even fight - why would garen get complete cc immunity?
mate. 0.75 seconds cc immunity.
this means with proper timing you could block 1 cc ability. unless the enemy team is stupid enough to blow everything at the same time on him in that small window.
the current pbe changes give garen 60% damage reduction and tenacity within the first 0.75 seconds of his w. im asking to trade the increased damage reduction against 60% to 100% scaling tenacity instead.
woodvsmurph1 votesYeah - you have 0.75 sec of 100% tenacity. If you don't mean to make the tenacity a passive instead of an active so that it is permanent immunity to cc, then you are very confusing in your wording.
One Ashe On1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VxhHXwpp,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-07-06T00:09:18.785+0000)
mate. 0.75 seconds cc immunity.
this means with proper timing you could block 1 cc ability. unless the enemy team is stupid enough to blow everything at the same time on him in that small window.
the current pbe changes give garen 60% damage reduction and tenacity within the first 0.75 seconds of his w. im asking to trade the increased damage reduction against 60% to 100% scaling tenacity instead.
Fiora riposte is .75 sec windows. It's still an overloaded ability. CC immunity is already frustrating to go against (
) , we don't need another offender even if it's for a short duration. Garen build alot of cooldown reduction so it would be more often than it should be.
Critmaster Garen2 votes[{quoted}](name=One Ashe On,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VxhHXwpp,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2017-07-06T01:21:33.789+0000)
Fiora riposte is .75 sec windows. It's still an overloaded ability. CC immunity is already frustrating to go against (
his rank 5 w cooldown with 45% cdr is 11 seconds. he might be lucky and get it off 2 times per fight with that.
Big Lincoln1 votesnot bad idea tbh
inb4 mage and tank mains try to tell you that would be op
TyrekGoldenspear6 votesI am a mage and tank main and that is op.
I am also a juggernaut main and that is not op and I like this.
Big Lincoln1 votesmaining tanks and mages means ur a traitor
out of my sight tbh
TyrekGoldenspear3 votesMake me skroob.
Critmaster Garen2 votesI am a mage and tank main and that is op.
I am also a juggernaut main and that is not op and I like this.
the damage reduction is nice, but being able to eventually negate abilities like an alistar knockback or one of the dozens of knockups in this game would be great.
Ralanr1 votesTenacity don't mean shit on my knock ups so go for it.
Critmaster Garen2 votesTenacity don't mean shit on my knock ups so go for it.
no, i mean thats exactly the reason.
i mean 100% cc immunity at rank 5 courage, including displacments.
Ralanr1 votesThat doesn't make sense and that imo would be broken on a basic ability.
Big Lincoln1 votesit's .75 seconds of cc immunity. broken? he'd have to be good at timing to maximize its use
Ralanr1 votesIf it's a basic ability I feel so. He can't caste it while stunned?
Big Lincoln1 votes
and no
Ralanr1 votesFiora doesn't move.
Critmaster Garen2 votesIf it's a basic ability I feel so. He can't caste it while stunned?
you cant cast courage while cced. youd have to time it.
also remember, that courage has a base cooldown of 24 to 20 seconds, and its the ability that you max the last. so getting to that 100% cc immunity during that window will take until lategame.
Fiora doesn't move.
garen doesnt stun or block the damage during that time (except for the usual 30%). basically you still take 70% of the ability damage, but you can get through a cc effect.
the difference is that fiora blocks absolutely everything durning her parry stance. including summoner spells, and follows this up with a stun on a successful parry. this wouldnt be the case for garen.
One Ashe On1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VxhHXwpp,comment-id=00000000000200000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-07-06T01:14:22.269+0000)
you cant cast courage while cced. youd have to time it.
also remember, that courage has a base cooldown of 24 to 20 seconds.
Garen player build 
almost everygame so that's already 20% out. If they build 
or whatever the item, it's 40% cdr gone and it can be added in Garen build pretty easily so the cooldown goes down by a good margin.
Critmaster Garen2 votes[{quoted}](name=One Ashe On,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VxhHXwpp,comment-id=000000000002000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-07-06T01:25:43.757+0000)
Garen player build
read my above statement on that matter.
his w is the last ability to max out, so hed get the 100% effect very lategame aswell.
the thing is. the current addition to his w already gives him almost 100% cc resistance. with 
and the swiftness mastery, that window of cc resistance increases to 76% overall tenacity.
the difference between being cced for .25 seconds or not at all is very small anyways.
trading the 60% damage reduction on the initial effect for a scaling to 100% cc resistance at rank 5 would at least allow him to deal with many forms of cc that arent affected by tenacity.
One Ashe On1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VxhHXwpp,comment-id=0000000000020000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-07-06T01:33:39.256+0000)
read my above statement on that matter.
his w is the last ability to max out, so hed get the 100% effect very lategame. aswell.
the thing is. the current addition to his w already gives him almost 100% cc resistance. with
the difference between being cced for .25 seconds or not at all is very small anyways.
trading the 60% damage reduction on the initial effect for a scaling to 100% cc resistance at rank 5 would at least allow him to deal with many forms of cc that arent affected by tenacity.
No offense buddy. But i doubt anyone wish to see Garen be picked in higher elo than platinum. He bring nothing to the table other than being a meatshield. And even if he would get this on his W, he would still be kitable to death and remain pretty useless as Garen provide no real utility for his team other than black cleaver armor reduction combined with the added armor shred on his E. Other than that, if you get against a coordinated team, it won't change much. Instead of trying to add random buff on Garen kit, you should think of a real rework that would make him viable in every elo. Not just a bands-aids.
Critmaster Garen3 votes[{quoted}](name=One Ashe On,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VxhHXwpp,comment-id=00000000000200000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-06T01:36:42.718+0000)
No offense buddy. But i doubt anyone wish to see Garen be picked in higher elo than platinum.
thats your personal opinion and irrelevant. riot is trying to make garen work for higher ratings aswell as lower ratings. thats a fact.
and what theyre doing is more than a mere bandaid. the new mechanic is supposed to add increased skill expression to his kit.
He bring nothing to the table other than being a meatshield. And even if he would get this on his W, he would still be kitable to death and >remain pretty useless as Garen provide no real utility for his team other than black cleaver armor reduction combined with the added armor >shred on his E. Other than that, if you get against a coordinated team, it won't change much. Instead of trying to add random buff on >Garen kit, you should think of a real rework that would make him viable in every elo. Not just a bands-aids.
its what theyre doing now. they said they have more changes planned to him.
and you basically described every juggernaut. theyre all beefy melee carries. thats what they bring to the game.
SFHFWill1 votesThen play Olaf
Critmaster Garen3 votesThen play Olaf
olaf is a different character. he gets 6 seconds of cc immunity which allows him to dive through the (any) frontlines no matter what you throw at him. still a huge difference.
shyvana gets her ult which allows her to dive in a similar fashion.
i think being able to block 1 cc ability every 11 seconds with the highest possible cdr, at lvl 18 is fine and wont rob them of their nieche.
Calabok1 votesBWAHAH! NO champ (except Yasuo) gets OP spells/skillset. so get over yourself with this request.
Critmaster Garen2 votesBWAHAH! NO champ (except Yasuo) gets OP spells/skillset. so get over yourself with this request.
there is nothing confusing about it.
read up on the pbe changes if you dont know what im talking about. i mean i even explained it a second time.
riot is adding a new effect to garens w. when he activates courage, he gains 60% damage reduction and 60% tenacity for 0.75 seconds. then it drops to 30% damage reduction for the remaining duration (2 - 6 seconds).
im saying i would trade the increased damage reduction on the initial effect for a scaling on the tenacity per rank of courage (60% to 100% at rank 5)
think of it as a parry without the ability to negate the damage and summoner spells, without the stun, and only a full cc parry at rank 5 courage.
One Ashe On1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VxhHXwpp,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-07-06T01:13:37.583+0000)
there is nothing confusing about it.
read up on the pbe changes if you dont know what im talking about. i mean i even explained it a second time.
riot is adding a new effect to garens w. when he activates courage, he gains 60% damage reduction and 60% tenacity for 0.75 seconds. then it drops to 30% damage reduction for the remaining duration (2 - 6 seconds).
im saying i would trade the increased damage reduction on the initial effect for a scaling on the tenacity per rank of courage (60% to 100% at rank 5)
It's for the remained 2.25 second. It got reduced to 3 second at all rank .
Critmaster Garen2 votes[{quoted}](name=One Ashe On,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VxhHXwpp,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-07-06T01:19:47.929+0000)
It's for the remained 2.25 second. It got reduced to 3 second at all rank .
last ive seen on the pbe, it still scaled up to 6 seconds.
what youre talking about was the first iteration of their changes to his w. they initially tried to just make it block 50% damage for 3 seconds at all ranks.
the current iteration has 30% damage reduction for 2 - 6 seconds and the added initial effect.
One Ashe On1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VxhHXwpp,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-06T01:23:01.014+0000)
last ive seen on the pbe, it still scaled up to 6 seconds.
what youre talking about was the first iteration of their changes to his w. they initially tried to just make it block 50% damage for 3 seconds at all ranks.
the current iteration has 30% damage reduction for 2 - 6 seconds and the added initial effect.
Courage (W): Cooldown lowered from 24/23/22/21/20 to 20/18.5/17/15.5/14 Active damage reduction changed from 30% at all ranks to 30/35/40/45/50% Active duration changed from 2/3/4/5/6 to 3 at all ranks
They never said anywhere on surrenderat20.net that the duration is back to normal.
Critmaster Garen2 votes[{quoted}](name=One Ashe On,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VxhHXwpp,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-06T01:30:19.390+0000)
Courage (W): Cooldown lowered from 24/23/22/21/20 to 20/18.5/17/15.5/14 Active damage reduction changed from 30% at all ranks to 30/35/40/45/50% Active duration changed from 2/3/4/5/6 to 3 at all ranks
They never said anywhere on surrenderat20.net that the duration is back to normal.
this is not his current w. you posted the first iteration of his w. it was reverted.
this is the current version. i can promise you the duration scales to 6 seconds.
Courage (W) Unique Active effect has changed. Now has an brief but stronger damage reduction effect and tenacity bonus at start then offers (lower) damage reduction for rest of duration. [new] Reduces damage by 60% and grants 60% tenacity for first 0.75 seconds. Damage reduction effect after first 0.75 seconds is 30%
SFHFWill1 votesTenacity doesn't affect knock ups iirc.
