@Riot, Why people are so angry at the changes you're doing

CrazedPorcupine··2 votes·783 views

Riot, I'm going to try and create a polite civil post that isn't filled with raging toxic comments (but I know I'll fail because this is the boards) that you may find easier to respond to.

First, Let's recap the changes that you're making. (not going to go into specifics since there are already lots of threads that do).

  1. You're reworking some of the 4 "Weakest"/"Broken" fighters in the game. You're changing Garen, Darius, Morde and Skarner, 2 of whom have been so incredibly problematic that you nerfed one into near uselessness, and the other you've reworked 3 times now and has had 4 iterations.
  2. You're nerfing armor and barely buffing MR
  3. You're adding a few Bruiser items for fighters to try and diversify builds while avoiding making OP items for ADCs to pick up.

Let's go over these a little bit more and look at the things that people are really pissed about: Garen: People rely on garen as a soft counter to Riven. Garen's 2.5 second silence was a wonderful reward to managing to close the gap on people, and was a form of severe punishment when anyone tried to 1v1 him inside melee range. Nerfing this down to 1.5 seconds at all ranks makes it harder for Garen to fight people at all stages of the game, whether his opponent is the Villain or not. Garen's W, which was once a one point wonder, is now a skill that is fairly terrible. Long ago, you got rid of W's farming/stacking mechanic because it made garen too farm heavy and boring. You changed his W so that people could feel good about putting a single point into it by making it give increased bonus resistances and Tenacity. Now, you've removed every reason to put points into it because in order to get the most out of it, you have to dedicate yourself to getting CS. Now, Garen's E changes are where people are most pissed. You changed the self slow from on minions, to on champions. This combined with his Q silence nerf, means that it's harder for Garen to apply all stacks of his E to a target. Next is Skarner: This is now the 3rd time you've reworked skarner, and it feels like TRASH. Garen and Darius got unique gameplay that situationally increased their damage, Skarner got... Capture points... He got things that are pretty useless in a large majority of situations because you spend about 80% of the game outside of those zones. Yes, when you're in them, you feel super powerful and strong, but then when you're not, you feel slow, weak and pretty much useless. These changes still do nothing to encourage us to pick Skarner over Vi. Vi has better gap closer, a better supression ult, and better damage even when built pure tank. Riot, Skarner doesn't offer anything advantageous to a team that Vi doesn't offer. Stun? Vi has a knockup/knockback, Melee range supression ult? Vi's is 2000 range and isn't able to be QSS'd, Shield? Vi has one too, and when it breaks doesn't reduce her effectiveness. Skarner isn't picked because he doesn't do anything that Vi does better.

Finally Morde: Most people don't want Morde to be played in the Duo lane. The other thing that is quite often forgotten, is that several ADC's can be played mid/top lane to offset the lack of an ADC bot. (who remembers Cait mid? Or Vayne/Quinn top?) Overall, these changes will just have to be played out in order to see what happens.

Darius overall is in a good spot with his changes and most people don't mind his changes.

Defensive Changes: ADC's and Physical damage dealers have been a required staple of the game for years. The only problem is that RANGED carries take precident over all else. This is one of the reasons people hate the Morde Rework. You nerf Solo Morde, but don't do anything to encourage the removal of an ADC bot lane. Without some reason to take morde over a traditional ADC, (tower taking, objective control, high sustained DPS) Morde's rework won't succeed. This comes more from the fact that ADC's are overbearing because there's no way to truly counter them other than burst them down and hope to win through numbers advantage.

These defensive changes also are made so that you can introduce more defensive items, but right now, you haven't introduced anything for general purpose tanks. There's no real diversity in MR, and the diversity in Armor is Limited. As of right now, 5.16 seems to scream, COME BACK PURE AD COMPS, COME BACK ARMOR SHREDDING FIGHTERS. And that's what most people hate. People hate Vi, and Darius, and J4 and all the other black cleaver fighters that shred away massive amount of armor because most of them have no strong weaknesses. Vi and J4 have strong gapclosers and decent innate tankiness.

  1. NEW FIGHTER ITEMS: Actually there's nothing really wrong here. Most people like the new items and are okay with them. That's a plus that you guys have going for you.

9 Comments

FTMHukY4Ps4 votes

Maybe we're angry about all the changes cause riot never listens and is now nerfing champs who don't need nerfs, all under the guise of a "rework"

Jase1352 votes

No matter how good they are, people dont like change. There's always gonna be a negative opinion for this type of thing given the size of the community.

TeemoJenkins1 votes

@OP - Can you post some logs from the PBE showing a before and after look for all the changes? You're saying all the changes are bad... but I don't see any data, just opinions.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

the funny thing is, i actually like the change to his w passive. one of the like 2 changes out of the entire rework i actually like.

because if done with his current kit, it would increase build diversity. he wouldnt have 2 item slots locked down for heavy resistance items anymore and could go into a more offensive build if he wanted. gaining the same bonus out of the w passive as if hed build more tanky.

the idea with the increased amount of spin ticks is technically also nice, since it increases his synergy with cleaver. they should have built on that and worked his crit scaling into this mechanic instead of removing it.

the entire vilain mechanic doesnt seem worth the cuts he takes everywhere else in his kit. hes op against some random champion he might not even want to fight because its a horrible idea going for that specific champion. meanwhile hes significantly weaker against everyone without the mark.

imagine the thing is on a low priority target like a thresh, or on a kallista or an ashe hiding behind a janna.

and the most important part is, garen isnt even in a bad spot right now. the item additions alone might increase his popularity with his current kit. but after his recent buffs and the cleaver changes he is in a good spot at all levels of play in solo que for the first time he exists in this game.

i could live with minor tweaks, but this is too much and an unecessary risk that might throw him right back to the bench.

{quoted}

No matter how good they are, people dont like change. There's always gonna be a negative opinion for this type of thing given the size of the community.

not every change is positive not every plan riot comes up with works out as intended. otherwise we wouldnt have the need for champion reworks in the first place. even of newly released champions (see azir).

garens rework looks like one of those things that probably sounded better in their heads than it will actually play out.

CrazedPorcupine2 votes

The problem was with Garen's Old W (Which is what the change puts it back to) is that people felt they were forced to max it first in order to survive in lane or in teamfights. Overall it just ended up feeling bad and didn't do anything for Garen.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

The problem was with Garen's Old W (Which is what the change puts it back to) is that people felt they were forced to max it first in order to survive in lane or in teamfights. Overall it just ended up feeling bad and didn't do anything for Garen.

the old w gave half 0.5 resistance for each kill and caused him to get a lot of armor/mr very early on in the game. its cap was also at 25, later 30 points. and it was a 1 point wonder, since the cap wasnt level dependent.

i actually found it really really good.

his original w gave 40% damage reduction for 4 seconds, and the armor mr cap was at 35 with 0.5 resistance per minion. that were his release values if im not mistaken.

Vistha Kai1 votes

I already said it multiple times in a civil manner: Each and every one of those fighters pays with their kit for a gimmick they won't be able to use half of the time.

Darius pays with his identity too.

They made a brute killer from a methodical killer general.

We already had Sion. Now we're gonna have two.

StikElLoco1 votes

I am pretty sure Garen is fine as he is. I play him as full tank (full Garen as i call it), not much dmg but still manage to rank up some kills. He is in no way OP though. I agree with a bit more dmg on his ult and an indication that the oponent will die since many times they manage to run away with just 10-20 HP. By nerfing with survaivability he won't even be able to reach the ranged ADC, so much kill it. And as many say if it's not broken don't fix it. We have champs like Akali, Ekko, Lb, Katarina and Fizz with their broken kit and you go and "rework" champs that are perfectly fine. Like Soraka. Or puting silly things on skills. Like Blitzcrank W that now slows you after it's been used, like seriously? Let alone other store items... cough chroma packs cough. I've been playing League for years and i am loosing my faith in RIOT rapidly.

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