was it neccessary to buff rylais?

Critmaster Garen··1 votes·443 views

the ap item changes in general are pretty decent and interesting (though im really worried about item 3151 on some specific champions), but can we just phase item 3116 out of the game in favour of better designed utility items like item 3030 with windowed actives instead of slapping permaslows on magic damage?

i honestly dont ever want to see rylais become a good or common item on mages again. still have nightmares about the last time it was built on almost every single mage.

i think both rylais and mallets inherent design of adding slows to ranged sustained damage is terrible. mallet after its nerf isnt quite as bad since the effect is largely reduced for ranged champions and its stat combination just doesnt make it attractive for a lot of ranged champions. but weve seen with Gnar how cancerous he is when thats not the case.

i really like item 3022 stat combination and just wish it would get a different passive. item 3116 should just be flat out deleted or replaced by a different item with a utility active for melee ap champions. maybe more something along the lines of item 3143 slow active (short ranged and aoe). or something that grants them a burst of movement speed towards enemy champions dependent on ap.

11 Comments

Ahristocats2 votes

yea it was

Critmaster Garen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Je suis Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vps0Mgby,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-22T19:19:52.767+0000)

yea it was

no it wasnt.

ap item changes and buffs were overall neccessary. but both rylais and mallet are really problematic design. when rylais is good enough to be picked up on mages, its usually complete cancer.

for comparison, i think item 3030 is a well designed utility item for mages, that grants some extra windowed power in form of utility with its slow active.

but throwing permaslows on already cc heavy mage kits like Zyra Malzahar Annie Orianna or even champions like Brand is a fucking terrible idea and usually leads to huge balance issues with those champions.

mainly because a large portions of their kits counterplay is designed around skillshots and their opponents ability to evade their poke or burst when positioning well. rylais removes this. you cant outplay a malzahar pressing e on your from range and slowing you to follow up with the rest of his chain. the same goes for brand. or tibbers just running into your team and aoe slowing everything around him.

Ahristocats1 votes

you're legit the ONLY dude who told me that Rylai didn't need buffs

can't you just get out of your bias already? the item was easily in top3 worst items of the game

buff was needed Rylai may be problematic but i don't care, it needed a buff

if riot refused to rework the item it's their problem all i know is that a buff was needed

you're legit the only bruiser main on the boards i know that is 100% biased, jesus

Critmaster Garen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Je suis Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vps0Mgby,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-22T19:26:02.481+0000) the item was easily in top3 worst items of the game

and rightfully so.

the way its designed, it should NEVER be good. it has a lot of problematic interactions with a large portion of the mages pool, where it removes counterplay from mage kits and overloads already cc heavy kits with even more cc.

the problem isnt that mages have utility options. they should have them

but not in the form of rylais passive.

LyingOnLine1 votes

Well, at least they only buffed the AP on it.

Frankly, I'm far happier that they finally realized that Void Staff probably shouldn't be the end-all be-all magic damage item. Didn't go far enough, but it's at least sinking in.

L Psy Kongroo1 votes

The slow is shit now unless you're a DoT mage or Viktor. And even Viktor players are starting to build Iceborn Gauntlet because Rylais slow is so bad. It was problematic when it was a 45% slow, but at 20% it's little more than a speedbump.

Rayjay Redfang1 votes

I still think item 3116 really isn't a spectacular item because there is always an item more important to build than it, and item 3022 is just a bad item except on gnar, and I can't see myself building it on any ad tank/juggernauts because item 3143 item 3800 have better stats and get the job done better , and I wouldn't build it on any damage dealer because it doesn't offer enough damage.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rayjay Redfang,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vps0Mgby,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-02-22T19:55:59.818+0000)

I still think item 3116 really isn't a spectacular item because there is always an item more important to build than it, and item 3022 is just a bad item except on gnar, and I can't see myself building it on any ad tank/juggernauts because item 3143 item 3800 have better stats and get the job done better , and I wouldn't build it on any damage dealer because it doesn't offer enough damage.

the problem is, now that they buffed the items ap to 85, it might be.

the slow passive is just broken imo and cant be properly balanced in league of legends.

Rayjay Redfang1 votes

It used to be broken. The issue is that the slow isn't good enough and the stats aren't there. Raising the AP might make it be seen again, but the passive slow still isn't that useful. If they make the slow proc like old Thunderlords did or some other method, and give it a bigger slow, that might help make it a good situational pick. Right now, it is just better to grab a defensive item instead like banshees, zhonya's, or glp.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rayjay Redfang,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vps0Mgby,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-02-22T20:12:15.624+0000)

It used to be broken. The issue is that the slow isn't good enough and the stats aren't there. Raising the AP might make it be seen again, but the passive slow still isn't that useful. If they make the slow proc like old Thunderlords did or some other method, and give it a bigger slow, that might help make it a good situational pick. Right now, it is just better to grab a defensive item instead like banshees, zhonya's, or glp.

then if its only ever not a trash item when its passive is strong, but its broken when its passive is strong, it has no business beeing in the game.

i could rephrase my opening question and ask, why they bothered buffing it instead of replacing it with something that doesnt have to be trash to be not op.

imo with a broken passive such as rylais, even buffing its stats and trying to make it anywhere near a desirable option goes too far.

Rayjay Redfang1 votes

The problem before was that the item was too general use, everyone could build it and it did too much work.

If they change it enough that it applies a strong slow under certain conditions rather than every spell, it could become a more niche item on some, and a decent core item on others rather than every AP champ should buy this item.

I don't think the buff was in the right direction to clarify.

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