"Gangplank is overpowered with Kleptomancy keystone"

notice me Sin pi·Nov 15, 2017·19 votes·4,821 views

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Gangplank/ http://champion.gg/champion/Gangplank/Top?league= http://na.op.gg/champion/gangplank/statistics/top

in all 3 sites, he's sitting within 49%~51% win rate as of now in all elo. Kleptomancy just adds on to Gangplank's fantasy as the saltwater pirate without making him anywhere near overpowered. Looking at the pick rate, 9%~15% is certainly pretty high, but it is not high enough to indicate any problem either for now.

He is not overpowered. Rather, it just seems relatively overpowered because he became a viable pick.

51 Comments

JbelsNov 15, 20179 votes

Gangplank has to make pretty big concessions for taking Kleptomancy. One of them being any semblance of an early game. Not that GP's early game was great to begin with, but if you invest into this keystone then you have absolutely no ability to do anything in lane aside from shoot the other guy and get money. I think that's a decent trade for his above average late game.

Also, GP only gains 5 gold per shot now. Yes, he has a chance to get one of those RNG gold items that grants gold, but there's no telling if or when you'll get them. All in all, I like this Kleptomancy playstyle. It feels very pirate-y, which is a good thing when you're playing a literal pirate.

GGLineaRNov 16, 20173 votes

{quoted}

It feels very pirate-y, which is a good thing when you're playing a literal pirate.

Can confirm.

Fun > Actually Good.

Hence why I play Middlesticks and Yorick.

The steam lifeNov 16, 20173 votes

welp yoricks busted now

GGLineaRNov 16, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=The steam life,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VpkiwUE8,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2017-11-16T04:21:31.991+0000)

welp yoricks busted now

Ehh, it's not him, it's the bustedness of Sheen and Demolish, they make his kit viable, where it wasn't before.

The steam lifeNov 16, 20172 votes

I mean demolished helped but having his q and therefor tri proc on turrets was probably a bad idea

Votable JesterNov 16, 20172 votes

Tri already did proc on turret.

The steam lifeNov 16, 20171 votes

His q didnt tho

Votable JesterNov 16, 20173 votes

Yeah, I just don't get why you'd say "his q and therefor tri proc on turrets" unless you thought tri didn't proc on turrets.

I know his Q gets a much shorter cd when used, so you can probably get more tri procs off, but the way you phrased it made it sound as though tri wouldn't normally proc.

The steam lifeNov 16, 20171 votes

Yeah i kinda forgot whoops but thats not the point the point is that its not just the rune and they need to revert that buff but keep demolish

GGLineaRNov 16, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=The steam life,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VpkiwUE8,comment-id=00080000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-16T05:41:19.447+0000)

I mean demolished helped but having his q and therefor tri proc on turrets was probably a bad idea

The same argument could be made of Nasus, if it was JUST Yorick having his Q work on towers.

Trust me, if they tone down the health scaling on demolish's damage, and reduce sheen damage to turrets by say, 40%, Yorick will be fine.

I say this because before the new runes dropped he was one of the lowest play rates in the game.

Yorick is MADE for splitpushing, and now that he's been given more tools to do it, he LOOKS overpowered, but if you nerf Yorick, and not what he's abusing, other people will abuse it instead and Yorick will go back into the pile of champions who never see picks.

The steam lifeNov 16, 20172 votes

But then other split pushers would see the same winrate increases which no one else saw its pretty much just him

Dokueki KenshinNov 16, 20171 votes

I wouldn’t say that. I’m seeing a lot more Nasus in the Top, and I imagine his win rate has crept up a bit too...

The steam lifeNov 16, 20171 votes

Nah i just looked it up. No matter how toxic to play against he is hes still balanced

GGLineaRNov 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=The steam life,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VpkiwUE8,comment-id=0008000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-11-16T20:26:15.447+0000)

But then other split pushers would see the same winrate increases which no one else saw its pretty much just him

Because he's the best fit for them NOW. He's already made to do it, and the tools make him BETTER at it.

If you nerf Yorick, people will just drop him and pick up the next champion who can abuse the tools.

If you nerf the tools, then you stop the current problem, and prevent new ones.

And to be fair, item 3057 has needed a nerf for a while. -40% damage on turrets when spellblade procs isn't so bad.

The steam lifeNov 17, 20171 votes

But no one else is abusing the tools so clearly it’s not the tools just Yorick. And sheen doesn’t need a nerf

OleandervineNov 17, 20171 votes

No, it's the tools, Yorick is just the most effective champion at using them. The other splitpushers, like Sivir and Tryndamere, don't stack HP like Yorick does, and thus don't utilize Demolish like he does.

The steam lifeNov 18, 20171 votes

So if literally no one in the game uses demolish to become broken like he does then why nerf it. If the tool was busted then there would be multiple overpowered split pushers. However Yorick is currently the only split pusher breaking the game so if you nerf Yorick another champ doesn’t come to take his place. This is because champs do not get stronger as a result of nerfing other champs.

The only way someone would be able to take his place is if someone was less but almost as powerful like twitch is #1 and Trist and kog are both close seconds. In Yoricks case there is no close second because unlike adc items the tools are not busted.

OleandervineNov 18, 20171 votes

Yorick is an exception to the rule, he shouldn't get nerfed because they blanketly released a tool that he can utilize to idiotic levels. He stacks HP and AD. Demolish gets more powerful based on your HP. Therefore, Demolish needs to be addressed, and Yorick does not need to be nerfed.

If we keep nerfing champions because tools that are released are breaking them, then those champions become 100% reliant on those tools to be viable. If Yorick is nerfed based on Demolish, he's going to be utter shit if he's not taking Demolish. This creates huge problems for champions, because it essentially guts their play diversity by requiring that they take specific runes or items.

And as a note, I've seen 2-3 bruisers on a team nuke towers. They don't split, sure, but when there are multiple champs Demolishing towers, and basically making them worthless piles of rubble, then the keystone needs to be looked at. It's entirely too strong for what it is, and it allows for games to be steamrolled really quick once tanks and bruisers get their HP items online.

LordGeovanniNov 17, 20171 votes

what they need to turn down on demolish is the base damage not the health scaling. and infact it should scale with health armor and magic resist.

GGLineaRNov 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=The steam life,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VpkiwUE8,comment-id=00080000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-16T05:41:19.447+0000)

I mean demolished helped but having his q and therefor tri proc on turrets was probably a bad idea

Nasus Nasus Nasus Nasus

Trust me, it's sheen and demolish. Nasus abuses sheen even more than Yorick does.

The steam lifeNov 17, 20171 votes

But the only thing that changed was q and demolish and every split pusher can use demolish but they aren’t op.

KloqdqNov 15, 20178 votes

GP is a difficult champion to play so the increased pick rate made his winrate drop a little bit from before. Honestly, I think Klepto is overrated on GP.

Friendly RamNov 15, 20178 votes

Bankplank was still a thing when he brought bandit/spellthief top. Don't see how klepto is worse.

QuephaNov 16, 20171 votes

Klepto is worse because it actually costs a big source of your early power. You didn’t miss much by going bandit.

SlythionNov 15, 20175 votes

The boards like to confuse "unfun/unfair/toxic gameplay" with being "op".

Gangplank being allowed to consistently Q his lane opponent and even be rewarded for it with almost no tradeoff is quite toxic gameplay that isn't fun. It might not break him from a balance perspective, but from a gameplay perspective he's quite stupid atm.

e46 FanaticNov 15, 20173 votes

{quoted}

The boards like to confuse "unfun/unfair/toxic gameplay" with being "op".

Gangplank being allowed to consistently Q his lane opponent and even be rewarded for it with almost no tradeoff is quite toxic gameplay that isn't fun. It might not break him from a balance perspective, but from a gameplay perspective he's quite stupid atm.

Sounds like a Klepto rune problem to me, not GP. The runes are just OP and this is coming from someone who laughs at all of the "blah blah OP blah blah" posts.

SlythionNov 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=ßoats and Hoes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VpkiwUE8,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-11-15T21:20:34.053+0000)

Sounds like a Klepto rune problem to me, not GP. The runes are just OP and this is coming from someone who laughs at all of the "blah blah OP blah blah" posts.

That's a matter of opinion tbh. Is it really a klepto rune problem if only 3ish champions abuse it? Would it be better to address the rune as a whole and potential overnerf it for those that don't abuse it, or is it better to address it at an individual champion level? I personally would like to see it's rewards halved for ranged champions, or something similar to that, but we're talking about preferences now.

But ya, I was careful to not blame Gangplank's kit as the reason he's toxic. I was just highlighting what makes him an abuser and why.

5000000000000000Nov 15, 20174 votes

The drawback is not getting ult upgrades until much later in the game

SlythionNov 16, 20172 votes

{quoted}

The drawback is not getting ult upgrades until much later in the game

He really isn't as hindered from silver serpents as you think. We're talking about him missing out on individual minions in the early game, even though most of his serpents are earned once he can wave clear with barrels (most notable is when he can start 1-shotting the backline of minions). That's when he really starts making serpents, and he still can at probably an even faster time because of his better gold income.

JackMcSnipeyzNov 16, 20172 votes

Not getting ult upgrades and giving up combat stats from runes is a trade off.

SlythionNov 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Not getting ult upgrades and giving up combat stats from runes is a trade off.

The ult upgrade isn't really hindered too much. You really don't earn a noticeable amount of serpents in lane until you can one-shot the backline with a barrel + Q. Not getting individual minions doesn't effect GP significantly as most of his serpents are obtained when he can waveclear with a barrel.

Combat stats from runes? Those are hardly a tradeoff when he get's a much better gold efficiency and possible combat stats in the form of consumables. Klepto is the most viable on gangplank. To say that he's losing out on other stuff just because those options are viable (even if less efficient) is as equal of an argument as saying Lux taking aero is a tradeoff because she doesn't have the damage from electrocute.

JackMcSnipeyzNov 17, 20171 votes

First, it is a trade off, GP ult is much much weaker with the removal of thunderlords, it does almost 0 damage, you need death's daughter for it to be threatning at all. Second, i didnt say klepto isnt the best for GP right now, but i said it has a cost. I'd gladly return to old masteries with TL, it was more interactive and powerfull IMO. But just because it's the best on him doesnt mean it has no drawbacks. Keystones offer fight changing differences, someone with elect will burst you much quicker than someome without, you trade early game presance for faster late game (at which point the keystone becomes almost none existant).

Yea, it's powerfull but saying it comes at 0 trade off is false.

SlythionNov 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

First, it is a trade off, GP ult is much much weaker with the removal of thunderlords, it does almost 0 damage, you need death's daughter for it to be threatning at all. Second, i didnt say klepto isnt the best for GP right now, but i said it has a cost. I'd gladly return to old masteries with TL, it was more interactive and powerfull IMO. But just because it's the best on him doesnt mean it has no drawbacks. Keystones offer fight changing differences, someone with elect will burst you much quicker than someome without, you trade early game presance for faster late game (at which point the keystone becomes almost none existant).

Yea, it's powerfull but saying it comes at 0 trade off is false.

Thunderlords doesn't exist anymore. That can't be a tradeoff if it isn't even an option. The closest replacement to tdl is electrocute, which doesn't proc off GP ult like thunderlords did. That argument makes very little sense.

As for the "gp loses early game presence by taking klepto" argument, that's also pretty weak. Any early game power on gp isn't utilized. It's like winning a hundred dollars at the cost of an old wrench you've never used. Ya you lose a wrench, but the actual impact it has in your life (or gameplay in this case) is little to none.

Also, I never said it comes with a 0 tradeoff. I said " with almost no tradeoff". I was very careful to pick those words because I recognize he loses out on some stats but it's really barely impacts him in a meaningful way.

here's the statement that really matters though You trade essentially meaningless early game stats for a safe + more reliable early game that speeds up your scaling into your dream lategame. That's the current situation that Klepto has given us in terms of GP's gameplay.

It doesn't make him over-powered, it just creates a very binary, boring, and quite unfun source of gameplay in League.

Sona PingNov 15, 20174 votes

"He is not overpowered. Rather, it just seems relatively overpowered because he became a viable pick."

[sg-miss-fortune]

Thanks for that one. It's such a great comment on the champion's situation.

redniwediSNov 15, 20174 votes

I main Garen, and when I face GP I just don't care about him. He pokes me and I just heal up, even after he gets sheen. I have to be a little bit careful when he finishes trinity, but then he goes back to doing nothing after I finish another item.

Klepto can be great, but the majority of GP players don't seem to know how to turn a gold advantage into a lane advantage, and it's honestly embarrassing to watch. A good GP should honestly come back to lane on his first back and start wrecking a melee opponent like Garen, particularly with the amount of gold Klepto can get you.

e46 FanaticNov 15, 20173 votes

A champion could sit overpowered for 5 years and nobody says a thing until some pro mentions it and then out of nowhere it's spam the boards time. Not saying this has anything to do with Gangplank but I'm tired of seeing the same bug and OP posts over and over as if they just found it out themselves.

Sewer SideNov 15, 20173 votes

Klepto is overrated.

It's only been +300-400 gold at 20+ mins on a carry.

Ezreal only has a high WR because of Muramana and his Q. Dark Harvest or PtA are far better options

Troll for TrumpNov 16, 20172 votes

His playstyles is really annoying to play against, but not overpowered. Like yasuo and almost all skirmishers basically.

notice me Sin piNov 16, 20171 votes

i only play jungle and support only these days, and support only before preseason so I never even knew GP is that annoying to play against. I honestly might not have made this post if i played against GP myself and become biased.

GGLineaRNov 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=notice me Sin pi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VpkiwUE8,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2017-11-16T13:52:09.577+0000)

i only play jungle and support only these days, and support only before preseason so I never even knew GP is that annoying to play against. I honestly might not have made this post if i played against GP myself and become biased.

He's not too bad to fight toplane. Sure, he gets a whole lot of gold, but he can't kill you unless you suck.

Midlane GP is cancer. Most mages don't have the tools to counter him, you you have to go assassin mid if you want to get anything done, well... unless you LIKE feeding.

Troll for TrumpNov 17, 20171 votes

Top lane he won't kill you, which is fine if you're a tank wanting to play the waiting game?

Everyone else wants to kill him, and it's almost impossible to do that.

Since top laners generally don't have global presence, and are in the most isolated position, they tend to also be unable to get kills or influence elsewhere. GP just sits under the turret, farming and outscaling with gold passives, while still having map presence with his ult. That's the annoying part; you can't kill him, you can't farm to outscale, and you need some way to reach your dmg spike before you fall off.

sevenkillNov 15, 20171 votes

GP is fine anyways

GubaguyNov 16, 20171 votes

Regardless of GP and Ez's ability to apply on hit abilities at long range (and even break the rules of the game, like GP applying hydra on a RANGED ATTACK), NO ONE should be able to apply klepto unless its by auto attacking. Its not fun playign agasint GP or Ez when they have klepto and start spellthiefs, it means they get to freely harrass you and get gold, kill minions and get gold, and passivly gain more gold without doing anythign through spellthiefs.

Klepto was a bad idea period.

SpoofghoulNov 16, 20171 votes

why on earth take kleptomancy when you can just get grasp, which is way more stupid on him, demolish because you don't really have to leave top anyway with your ult and then you take overgrowth because you can

And then in sorcery take gathering storm since you can just afk push and either win by splitpushing or you can actually scale very hard

And for the other rune you take the one which converts cdr into ad

And then all you need to build item 3047 item 3078 item 3071 item 3053 item 3065 item 3083

There now you gain dumb amounts of HP and AD and nobody can kill you while you push and poke from a distance bully your enemy 1 shot turrets and ~~teabag~~ drop cannon_ballz_ on enemies across the map

The steam lifeNov 18, 20171 votes

Have you ever even seen a gp in your life. How would that work on him if he can tank burst why have a w. If you have no damage why use a barrel. You objectively just made half his kit useless and might I add that you have 30 and 55 armor and me respectively. It would literally take zero seconds to kill you in a team fight and you aren’t a great split pusher so just... why.

SpoofghoulNov 18, 20171 votes

apparently health doesn't protect vs burst

you learn something new everyday i guess

The steam lifeNov 19, 20171 votes

No the burst is their two carries wrecking you in an instant because you have no resistances. If you didnt need them people would stack warmogs.

You get taught something new everyday so here ya go

LordGeovanniNov 17, 20171 votes

not to mention the major trade off of not being able to and not trying to stack your silver serpents for ultimate upgrades