shout out to nasus mains

Critmaster Garen·Feb 1, 2017·3 votes·1,017 views

how would you feel about replacing the flat armor reduction on spirit fire with a stacking % armor reduction per damage tick? (maybe a decent base value on initial cast).

imo this could actually allow him to scale into lategame. the fact that he doesnt have attractive % armor pen options available on his items is imo part of the reason why he falls off despite his inifinite scaling.

a little bit of armor on the opponent, and it often feels like those 600 stacks dont matter.

25 Comments

RalanrFeb 1, 20172 votes

Is he really not doing a lot of damage late? I assumed his late game problem was not being able to catch up to his targets.

Big LincolnFeb 1, 20171 votes

he can't do much vs tanks

RalanrFeb 1, 20172 votes

Oh gee, his burst damage actually has a problem against the anti burst class. The horror.

Critmaster GarenFeb 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Oh gee, his burst damage actually has a problem against the anti burst class. The horror.

its really only burst damage against enemies made out of paper. otherwise, id think his kit is more made for sustained damage.

RalanrFeb 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VjbB7En7,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-01T21:01:22.872+0000)

its really only burst damage against enemies made out of paper. otherwise, id think his kit is more made for sustained damage.

Oh gee, it's working correctly against champions that are weak to burst, the horror.

Big LincolnFeb 1, 20171 votes

I wouldn't call a 2 second cooldown a burst move

he can't fight tanks and he can't reach the back line. all he can do is be an eternal pusher against a competent team.

HethaleanFeb 1, 20171 votes

you're mainly describing juggernauts.

Big LincolnFeb 1, 20171 votes

Gee, you think?

HethaleanFeb 1, 20171 votes

Yes, but you're talking about Nasus as if it's special to Nasus. The answer isn't really to "do the thing they did to Garen E" to every juggernaut while talking about the struggles he has ... which are just class struggles, and not Nasus struggles.

RalanrFeb 1, 20171 votes

Here's a question: why should he get easier access to the back line? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of peeling him away since his Q has a 2 second cooldown?

The squishies will be dead before he can be properly peeled.

Big LincolnFeb 1, 20171 votes

who's arguing that? I said he should be able to fight the front line, something that's intended for his group

PermabannedGarenFeb 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VjbB7En7,comment-id=000000000000000100010000,timestamp=2017-02-01T21:36:07.122+0000)

who's arguing that? I said he should be able to fight the front line, something that's intended for his group

Nasus can "fight the front line", in that he can easily 1v1 every tank in the game.

He just can't DPS them down in team fights before being DPS'd by their ADC like Darius or to an extent Yorick can.

RalanrFeb 1, 20171 votes

Then why did you argue "he can't reach the backline"?

Nasus has always been a splitpusher.

Big LincolnFeb 1, 20171 votes

it was a statement to clarify how awful he is in teamfights

splitpush champs are always either dog shit or overpowered. you think Tryndamere will be a dedicated split pusher when he gets VGU'd?

RalanrFeb 1, 20171 votes

Yes (though they'll probably help his teamfighting a little while somewhat weakening his splitpushing, he'll probably still be a dedicated splitpusher).

Nasus is a splitpush champion, why should he get decent teamfight utility like that when the best way to stop Nasus is to force him to help his team so he doesn't farm or split push?

Asayake 5150glowFeb 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VjbB7En7,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2017-02-01T21:01:45.827+0000)

I wouldn't call a 2 second cooldown a burst move

Well then why is it bursting?

It's like Illaoi, her tentacles have a 2 second CD in her ult, but that's not dps, that's still burst. It's just multiple bursts.

Critmaster GarenFeb 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Is he really not doing a lot of damage late? I assumed his late game problem was not being able to catch up to his targets.

if you get 400 stacks by midgame is the point where nasus really shines. enemies usually arent tanky enough yet to deal with your damage output.

lategame, its kinda awkward. it feels like youre 2 shotting squishies, and barely tickle bruisers and tanks.

imo the flat armor reduction on his e is partially responsible. turning it into % shred could even him out a little more, to be able to fight heavy armored opponents.

RalanrFeb 1, 20171 votes

I mean, is he supposed to be good against tanky opponents?

Big LincolnFeb 1, 20171 votes

the optimal way to play nasus is full lethality with triforce and to hide in bushes for prey

ProtestantCaesarFeb 1, 20171 votes

I'm not a Nasus main, but we're on a similar subject and you're Critmaster Garen, so I want to ask you a question.

Did the % armor shred Garen got on his E help him much?

If it did, then it might be a good idea for Nasus.

Critmaster GarenFeb 1, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I'm not a Nasus main, but we're on a similar subject and you're Critmaster Garen, so I want to ask you a question.

Did the % armor shred Garen got on his E help him much?

If it did, then it might be a good idea for Nasus.

in terms of overall power, yes. it helped him. in terms of playstile and options he has available, no. not really.

the difference between nasus and garen is, that garen already had a pretty attractive option for armor shred with cleaver. nasus doesnt really have any itemization options when it comes to armor pen.

which is why his lategame feels incredibly awkward.

EndlessSorcererFeb 1, 20171 votes

I'm not sure how useful that would be considering most players just walk out of it.

While it could be useful against durable melee champions trying to fight you (since you can just stand in it), it wouldn't be as effective against ranged champions or anyone who can move out of it.

Generally, you can only get an AA-Q off while they are within Spirit Fire, so it wouldn't really have time to stack up.

While it is true that armor greatly reduces his damage, his main issue is his susceptibility to kiting. He can't really reach the enemy back-line during teamfights since they just chain-slow him while they melt him down and he lacks a gap-closer.

Also, this is just a really bad meta for Nasus to be in considering how early games are generally decided and the prevalence of damage amplification in masteries.

Honestly, I've been debating the purchase of Blade of the Ruined King (5th or 6th item) to deal with tanks and durable fighters while splitpushing.

Now that his ultimate provides bonus resistances, it might actually be a viable option.

Critmaster GarenFeb 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'm not sure how useful that would be considering most players just walk out of it.

While it could be useful against durable melee champions trying to fight you (since you can just stand in it), it wouldn't be as effective against ranged champions or anyone who can move out of it.

Generally, you can only get an AA-Q off while they are within Spirit Fire, so it wouldn't really have time to stack up.

While it is true that armor greatly reduces his damage, his main issue is his susceptibility to kiting. He can't really reach the enemy back-line during teamfights since they just chain-slow him while they melt him down and he lacks a gap-closer.

Also, this is just a really bad meta for Nasus to be in considering how early games are generally decided and the prevalence of damage amplification in masteries.

Honestly, I've been debating the purchase of Blade of the Ruined King (5th or 6th item) to deal with tanks and durable fighters while splitpushing.

Now that his ultimate provides bonus resistances, it might actually be a viable option.

i thought the idea would be that he wouldnt be forced to get to the backline to be effective, and almost useless when he cant reach them, because hes blocked by the enemy frontliners who stack armor.

the idea behind this change would be that he could have an option to pick fights with enemy divers and generally frontliners if he cant get to the backline.

PermabannedGarenFeb 1, 20171 votes

Let's not give cancer dog any buffs until he gets a rework to make him less one-dimensional. Tryndamere has more options available to him than cancer dog. Cancer dog should be kept in a relatively weak state.

Ravenous HowlsFeb 2, 20171 votes

The real problem is how easily, Nasus and other immobile fighter type champions, just get chunked before being able to reach a target. ADC's like Cait and Jinx can effectively kite you solo with just an item or two due to their massive access to CC in the form of roots and slows.

At least Garen can cleanse a slow with his Q which also happens to be hard CC, silence. This also allows him to proc CoC and make his survival even better. Same can be said for Darius. Both champions can access, easily, BC and CoC safety. Neither work for Nasus. Both champions have a form of damage that allows them to do more damage then it seems they should. Darius's Bleed and now Garen's Spin to Shred.

Also most split pushers have some form of decent team fight mechanic. Tryn can deny death for 5 seconds and spin into a team from the jungle and slow them if they run. This allows him to survive the engage, possibly kill one or two champions and slow them down enough for his team to clean up. Xin and Wu are also great DPS split pushers who have access to some decent mobility and aoe ults. Nasus just falls into the unfortunate category of immobile juggernaut split pusher. His job is much harder to split push as he has no reliable mobility to get away or juke and usually must stand and fight. And even this he can barely do b/c so many champions have access to BC or make better use of other pen/lethality items that he can't reasonably build.

So TLDR: Nasus should get some %shred on his aoe and it should burn the target and reduce their armor for as long as they stand on the zone and up to 1.5 seconds after stepping off. I personally like to play Nasus as a team fighter as I think split pushing with him is far too risky as it usually means his death if more than 2 come. Also making IBG melee only and bumping it to proc 125% of base AD would be a slight way to buff Nasus back to a better state as Triforce often takes too long to build and you deny yourself crucial resistances from leaving IBG out.