Garen: Too weak early, Too strong late and still the same issues as before

SaltyToplaneGoat··2 votes·1,761 views

Did the rework accomplish anything apart from adding situational true damage to his ult?

It's not like Garen was not doing already a ton of damage before to priority targets. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the villain system is neccesarely bad, but it was not really what this champ needed.

He still plays absolutley braindead, with the exeption that you are now even weaker early, which turns the first half into your game into passive farming so you can get your levels, def stats and items, and then you suddenly become so OP it's not even funny anymore - that one less second of silence barely makes a difference when you murder everything as a hyperactive beyblade...

But even if I totally wreck my enemies later in the game, I don't really feel in any way skillfull or good about it... I'm just... bored. I can feel my braincells die because of the lack of mechanical interaction with this champion. I almost felt bad for my enemies because I was almost doing nothing and still killed them.

Usually I like Garen's theme, but from a gameplay perspective I see no reason to pick him when I could pick a character that's actually fun and challenging to play.

We might need a second rework on this one, one that actually works on his basic abilities...

14 Comments

TheDogIsOut3 votes

Well.. Don't play him then, if you don't enjoy his gameplay (?)

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

The thing is that he has almost ZERO gamplay to enjoy. You shouldn't feel downright bored when playing a match of lol, no? I was hoping that they fixed this a bit with the rework, but it looks like it was a wasted opportunity...

Brascus2 votes

I focus on strategy with Garen since he can push lanes pretty hard, late game I roam and plug the drains. It just feels a bit lame when I see a team mate running for their life and I can't really assist to help them escape and they always say in their last moments "Garen...why, why don't you save me".

Garen Maeks mi cri evri tiem

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

I focus on strategy with Garen since he can push lanes pretty hard, late game I roam and plug the drains. It just feels a bit lame when I see a team mate running for their life and I can't really assist to help them escape and they always say in their last moments "Garen...why, why don't you save me".

Garen Maeks mi cri evri tiem

ya, this is another thing i wanted to mention. pre rework i nearly entirely focused on split pushing lategame. decent waveclear and early snowballing means i applied pressure to the map.

this is all well and good, but it felt almost like my only option, since the ability to teamfight or do much of anythign else was lacking.

i like that it is possible now that instead of having to rely on my adc performing well, i can play around the villain mechanic, run around the map trying to shut snowballing opponents down, giving my team breathign room.

or in teamfights my team can focus around enabling me to reach that villain (most likely a carry).

i honestly didnt expect the villain mechanic to turn out that smoothly. but its works rather nice in practise.

Brascus1 votes

Unless the team fight initiated is solid I bail straight away and just focus on pressure or come out of left field when things seem even.

Deaeras1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VhR08XPa,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-08-21T13:36:45.373+0000)

The thing is that he has almost ZERO gamplay to enjoy. You shouldn't feel downright bored when playing a match of lol, no? I was hoping that they fixed this a bit with the rework, but it looks like it was a wasted opportunity...

Honestly if you get a kill while laning against him and you're the villain, that 400 true damage ultimate at level 6 hurts.

Brascus1 votes

It would be nice if they expanded "easy to pick up" to also contain "hard to master" for Garen

Critmaster Garen3 votes

honestly, i prefer the stronger lategame than the early game.

being a lane bully always made me feel like im winning my lane, but i have barely any impact on the actual outcome of the game as a whole. sure you can make a couple good plays but there is just a point where you were going to fall off. you could beat that jax or irelia or trundle in lane, and lategame they would just chew you up 1v1.

the increased lategame damage makes me feel like if i play well early, i can really carry late.

being experienced on the champion, i can win a lot of matchups. even unfavourable ones with the weaker early game. and then come lategame i can really turn the game around if i have to.

i like the rework and imo i hope they wont nerf him because he stomps lower ranks again. imo its just something we should live with. if bronze and silver cant handle him, well thats what bans are for.

Brascus2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VhR08XPa,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-08-21T13:25:59.151+0000)

Did the rework accomplish anything apart from adding situational true damage to his ult?

It's not like Garen was not doing already a ton of damage before to priority targets. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the villain system is neccesarely bad, but it was not really what this champ needed.

He still plays absolutley braindead, with the exeption that you are now even weaker early, which turns the first half into your game into passive farming so you can get your levels, def stats and items, and then you suddenly become so OP it's not even funny anymore - that one less second of silence barely makes a difference when you murder everything as a hyperactive beyblade...

But even if I totally wreck my enemies later in the game, I don't really feel in any way skillfull or good about it... I'm just... bored. I can feel my braincells die because of the lack of mechanical interaction with this champion. I almost felt bad for my enemies because I was almost doing nothing and still killed them.

Usually I like Garen's theme, but from a gameplay perspective I see no reason to pick him when I could pick a character that's actually fun and challenging to play.

We might need a second rework on this one, one that actually works on his basic abilities...

I feel the same way, Garen's output felt fine before its just his kit is so 1-dimensional, I thought they were going to do something like maybe:

Judgement removes CC effects from allies when moving over them

or

Demacian Justice can be used to heal friendly champions increasing the heal based on the amount of hp lost (reverse of what it does to enemies)

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

I thought more about giving him new offensive abilities, such as a mix of Q and E, where you move forwards swinging your sword with heavy strikes. THAT would be awesome, not not just braindead "spin-to-win".

Critmaster Garen3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VhR08XPa,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-08-21T13:47:06.766+0000)

I thought more about giving him new offensive abilities, such as a mix of Q and E, where you move forwards swinging your sword with heavy strikes. THAT would be awesome, not not just braindead "spin-to-win".

no.

sorry, but the spin is the trademark of his playstile. i find the villain mechanic a nice addition. there are a lot mroe champs in this game who can carry like him, but dont have a complicated kit.

i wouldnt call shyvana, pantheon or even shen mechanically intensitive. same goes for a lot of assassins and ad carries. but they all had something more to offer than him. now he has his own nieche as a comeback champ.

which is actually amazing for a top laner. you often get into situations where youre winning up top and your bot lane loses. usually that will mean youre losing the game (at least it did with garen). now he has a chance to turn games around and make comebacks happen.

Brascus1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VhR08XPa,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-08-21T13:47:06.766+0000)

I thought more about giving him new offensive abilities, such as a mix of Q and E, where you move forwards swinging your sword with heavy strikes. THAT would be awesome, not not just braindead "spin-to-win".

Garen Wha..?

MarshallBananna1 votes

It sounds like he's not your style, why do you even bother playing him then? It's not like he radically changed from 5.15 to 5.16, hes just as "boring" now as he was before.

I like garen, because believe it or not, there is an actual decision making process to playing him, more so now that you get bonus E damage on isolated targets.

I don't play sona because i find her incredibly boring, but she has a devoted fanbase and you don't see me whining to give her a skillshot or something.

To each his own.

Dracid1 votes

uhh thats the opposite problem he had before. Before he was strong early and weak late game. People would just ignore him late game because he did no damage and had no hard CC

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