Do people expect Riot to find the "perfect balance"? (WARNING: opinions incoming)

John Berserk··2 votes·850 views

If so, they shouldn't, because I don't think even Riot is looking for it.

There's a reason Riot always changes the game with more patches, and its not because they're looking for that perfect "sweet spot" where everything is balanced and every champ is equally viable in their intended roles. No, the reason they change their game is simply because they want it to change, because its a living game that changes over time, and that's what keeps the game fresh.

If they ever found that "perfect balance" where everyone would supposedly be happy, the game would flourish for a bit, and then die soon after. Why is that? Because at that point there'd be no where else to go. The game would become stagnant, because there'd be no objective reason why you would want to use one champ over another when they both perform equally well in the same role. Sure youd maybe one day want to choose Zed over Akali as your go-to assassin, and the next day vice versa, but sooner or later people would lose interest, as they wouldn't be able to experience the satisfaction of mastering a Champion and being rewarded for doing so, because why would you bother mastering a hard champ when you could just play an easy champ and do equally well all the time? (Liking the design of the character themselves I think would only last so long before even that wore off.)

I think thats what it would boil down to, satisfaction. A lot can be said for the satisfaction of learning the ins and outs of a champion completely, mastering them, knowing their limits, what they can and cant do at any given time, and knowing when you can capitalize on a certain situation to the absolute best of their (and your) abilities. That satisfaction of mastering a champion (or multiple champions) and using your knowledge to perform better and win games due to it is what motivates people to keep playing. For some champs, its easier to reach that point where you can achieve a goal easier than would be possible with another champion, but would there really be any satisfaction in that? Constantly going the easy route? Maybe, only because it'd help you win through less effort, and maybe simply "winning" is what satisfies you, but would that really make you a better player? Or just a better opportunist? Which would make you feel better about yourself?

Alright, that sounded kind of mean (sorry about that), but my point is, there kind of needs to be some champions that are harder to achieve certain goals with ("bad" champs) so that satisfaction is there for the players to earn, because without it, there'd be little reason to continue playing.

At least, thats how I see it. I play constantly to get better. The game is fun yes, but the satisfaction is what motivates me truly.

7 Comments

SmokingPuffin4 votes

No, the reason they change their game is simply because they want it to change, because its a living game that changes over time, and that's what keeps the game fresh.

I think it's not just change for change's sake. I think they believe what they are doing will improve the quality of the game.

If you released the season 1 game today, it wouldn't hold a candle to the current game. Although Riot occasionally makes bad design decisions, by and large the game is improving over time.

If they ever found that "perfect balance" where everyone would supposedly be happy, the game would flourish for a bit, and then die soon after.

I think that Brood War is a counterexample. That game was basically the same for 10 years, and its ongoing success as an esport is why League was even possible.

They don't change the rules for basketball every year. People still like playing basketball.

why would you bother mastering a hard champ when you could just play an easy champ and do equally well all the time?

This raises a different question -- how should skill cap work in a perfectly balanced game? Should an easy champion like Akali be equally powerful as Zed? Should there even be differences in skill cap between champions at all?

For some champs, its easier to reach that point where you can achieve a goal easier than would be possible with another champion, but would there really be any satisfaction in that? Constantly going the easy route? Maybe, only because it'd help you win through less effort, and maybe simply "winning" is what satisfies you, but would that really make you a better player?

I'm a competitive player, at least in ranked. I play whatever champion I think is the best way to win games. I don't understand the value in playing a champion that is harder to generate results on.

When I see Urgot win a game, I don't think "wow, that guy must have worked really hard", I think "wow, that guy is not very bright".

John Berserk1 votes

I somewhat replied to some of your points in my reply to CyanoPirate's comment, so I'll just reply to certain things here. :o

This raises a different question -- how should skill cap work in a perfectly balanced game? Should an easy champion like Akali be equally powerful as Zed? Should there even be differences in skill cap between champions at all?

Well I think by result of it being "perfectly balanced", there would be little to no skillcap at all. If there were a higher skill cap on one character, meaning it took more effort to achieve the same results as another character that had a lower skill cap, would that character not be considered "objectively" worse? And on the flipside, if a character with a higher skillcap also had more benefits than a character with a lower skillcap, meaning putting in the effort to master them and get everything out of them you possibly can and resulting in a character that can essentially do more than a character with a lower skill cap, would that character not be considered "objectively" better, at least in a vacuum?

I'm a competitive player, at least in ranked. I play whatever champion I think is the best way to win games. I don't understand the value in playing a champion that is harder to generate results on.

When I see Urgot win a game, I don't think "wow, that guy must have worked really hard", I think "wow, that guy is not very bright".

Why would you think him not very bright? Would you not think it would be tough for an Urgot player to win a ranked game, at least at higher tiers? If anything I would think you'd think that way towards the opposite team for not being able to win against an Urgot.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

If there were a higher skill cap on one character, meaning it took more effort to achieve the same results as another character that had a lower skill cap, would that character not be considered "objectively" worse? And on the flipside, if a character with a higher skillcap also had more benefits than a character with a lower skillcap, meaning putting in the effort to master them and get everything out of them you possibly can and resulting in a character that can essentially do more than a character with a lower skill cap, would that character not be considered "objectively" better, at least in a vacuum?

This is one viable take.

An alternative take is to view things in terms of risk and reward. Maybe a higher skill cap champion takes on more risk to get more reward, and that is possibly a balanced profile relative to a safer but less rewarding champion.

Why would you think him not very bright? Would you not think it would be tough for an Urgot player to win a ranked game, at least at higher tiers? If anything I would think you'd think that way towards the opposite team for not being able to win against an Urgot.

Because that player is either ignorant of Urgot's relative weakness, or knowingly making an irrational pick. Either way, the player isn't doing a good job of maximizing winning chances, which I see as the point of ranked.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

I just happily disagree with you. I don't want to sound like I'm flaming. I see your opinion, and I get it, and I think for SOME people, this is a big part of why they keep coming back.

On the other hand, if it was perfectly balanced, I think there would be a larger interest overall. The changes can be frustrating. I mean, from what I understand, DoTA doesn't really get patches, substantially, and that's why people love it. The game still changes because of the way that players innovate, rather than the way Valve innovates the game. I talk to one of my labmates about this all the time, and I think "wow, it would be nice to play a game like that. where everything was just... the same. Always. Except it wasn't, because people keep doing new things with those same tools. What smart game design." I've been sorely tempted to change MOBAS multiple times over this issue.

So, even if the game were "perfectly" balanced, there's enough depth to keep things fresh on its own. I'm happy to civilly disagree, but that's my counterpoint. I'm sure it doesn't apply to everyone, at least not enough to make them want that.

John Berserk1 votes

(So sorry for the essay reply :(() I deeply appreciate the happy disagreement.

I see the counterpoint as well. There are games that are made and then left for the player base to play with and not be touched at all by the developers via patches and whatnot (StarCraft is a popular example, as noted by SmokingPuffin in his comment, as is Super Smash Bros. Melee), and those games do evolve on their own, as the players find more and more that each of the characters is capable of doing, but I think there are some fundamental differences between fighting games/RTS games like StarCraft (which are generally left untouched balance-wise once released, only being changed via larger expansions) and League of Legends that may make League an exception to the idea of a "perfect balance" being good for it, and that is the amount of characters to choose from, the depth of each of those characters, and the depth of the mechanics of the game itself.

Fighting games tend to have an average to large amount of characters to choose from, around 30 or so. Each of those characters tends to have a lot of depth to them, at least compared to other characters (this excludes "clones" somewhat, but those do have their own sort of depth). However, fighting games due to the nature of their design are MUCH more simpler than a game like League. I don't mean to imply fighting games like Street Fighter or Melee are easy to play at a high level by any means, what I mean is the amount of things that need to be taken into account in high-level play is less than the amount of things one needs to take into account in high-level League play. Fighting game characters have stats to them, but they dont change. In a typical fighting game, there are no items to buy, no temporary buffs, no real teamwork involved, just 1v1, moving left or right (or in a 3D space, left, right, towards, and away from the screen), and knowing your stats/limits and your opponents. League has many more directions to move, objects to move around, items to buy and change stats, buffs to earn to change stats even more and add MORE mechanics to the game, more objectives to take into account other than "get my combos in", and all of that for nearly 120 characters.

For RTS games like StarCraft, its kind of the other way around. The depth is there (perhaps even moreso than it is in League), but the number of "characters" to balance that around isnt. Typically in competitive RTS games, there aren't a lot of factions or whatever to choose from. Maybe 3-6 max. Starcraft has 3, and they work roughly in a rock, paper, scissors sort of balance. Granted those are some SUPER DEEP rocks, pieces of paper, and scissors, but again, there's still only 3.

DOTA 2 is an interesting case. I myself dont play it, but to my understanding, it very infrequently gets patches (like 1 every 6 months or something??), but when it does, they're HUGE, and contain TONS of changes. At least, thats what I heard. Perhaps if they made their patches smaller and more frequent, they would evolve just as constantly as League does in the same timeframe? Lets say Dota 2 got a patch, and then 6 months later another patch. In that time, has the game changed as much from patch 1 to patch 2 as League has during that same 6-month timespan?

John Berserk1 votes

Incoming downvotes I'm sure, but I'm prepared.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17et8bkuu6rlijpg/original.jpg

John Berserk1 votes

Also, when it comes to Riot's "favoritism" towards certain champs (cough LeeSin cough), thats a totally different discussion I think.

I believe the game is better the way it is, being one that constantly changes and has the power balance shift from champ to champ, but I dont think champs should remain at the top for as long as some of them have. (cough LeeSin cough)

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