For AD champs, Grievous Wounds costs 800 gold. For AP champs, Grievous Wounds costs 3000 gold. Granted, Ignite and a few abilities have it and sure an AP champ can drop 800 on an item they'll eventually sell but I'm strictly refering to meta items. So, let's have a poll.
BoRnToKiLL6665 votesno because AP champs have ludens, an incredibly broken item and huge power spike compared to ANY adc item
The Highest Noon1 votesSo the balance is that they shouldn't have early access to grievous wounds because they have a strong item early-on?
I can dig it.
taleofsonata2 votesno because AP champs have ludens, an incredibly broken item and huge power spike compared to ANY adc item
Broken item??? More like Missing AP ratios and base damages nerfed over the years, turned into a fucking item. Get your clue together, go look through alot of the mages patch notes. - damage, - AP ratios, - Base Damages, -etc.
HP Crookshanks1 votes
is the stongest AP item but it can't be considered broken when 
and 
exist.
F Ù Ń2 votesno because AP champs have ludens, an incredibly broken item and huge power spike compared to ANY adc item
Because it has tiny AOE. Infinity Edge has a higher power spike than Ludens
Crispy0Snake5 votes[{quoted}](name=F Ù Ń,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vby94Vou,comment-id=00010003,timestamp=2019-05-09T02:26:59.896+0000)
Because it has tiny AOE. Infinity Edge has a higher power spike than Ludens
No, because it gives lots of mana and lots of AP, CDR, with a passive that increases poke damage
It gives a mage everything they want in one item, the build path is really nice too
IE can't really be bought first item and give all the stats you want for poke in one item because it has no attack speed, an ADC's dps stats are multiplicative
ModAcademy Kayn5 votesEasy, because Mages have a greater Margin-of-Health needed to be able to kill someone, meaning that enemies at a higher percent of health aren't as safe compared to other champions. Versus an ADC, being at 75% health isn't as worrisome, but against a Mage, you're a lot more wary. When it comes to laning against Mages, the important factor is staying above the margin-to-kill (Let's call it that to be succinct) and avoiding their set-up ability.
Sustain is a counter versus DPS, because a DPS Champion doesn't have that much burst relatively, some outliers excluded. If you do 20 damage every second to an enemy who heals 10 a second with 100 health, they've effectively cut your DPS in half. Early GV is needed because of this, the more health they have left, the longer they'll be able to sustain, the longer the fight goes on, and the DPS gets outclassed. They need GV at the start of the fight, else they lose a lot of Net DPS because of it.
Compare that to a mage. They can do 60 damage a second, or even 100. Even if they don't kill you, having GV as an item early puts the enemy sustain champion in an unfair situation, where they just simply lose. They're already down a majority of their health, and any hope of sustaining through enemy CD's is limited thanks to GV. They've already effectively lost. Tie that alongside Mages being able to poke, they can whittle down your health, limit your ability to regen, And bring you closer to that Margin-To-Kill.
Of course, some Mages like Azir and Cass are DPS-like Champions, but they're outliers, and typically have tools most other AD DPS don't. This is why Mages are held back behind a 3000 Item build, because Sustain is already weaker against Burst than DPS.
The Highest Noon1 votesYou didn't really answer the question, but I'm taking an educated guess that it's "No", and you make a lot of sense.
[slayer-jinx-wink]
NoPaxt4 votesThey should also get spell vamp back
The Highest Noon1 votesI don't even fully understand why they took it out.
Or maybe I did at the time but I just stopped caring.
OH. It was because it gave AP champions as a whole too much survivability
MessyStuff2 votesIt was probably because the fact that pretty much all mages(with the exception of Short Range Mages like Annie) have enormous range. It would be kind of unfair for adcs to have to get to 550-650 range in order to heal and mages can heal from 3000 units away. Plus mages can build health way more easily than any adc can(pretty much the only one is frozen mallet). And also 
abused it.
The Highest Noon1 votesThat abuse is true lmao it was fun times, tho.
NaughtyWord1 votesMessyStuff1 votesEh I was mostly talking about crit adcs but that's true, i forgot about black cleaver(and one more thing, trinity force's measly 250 health doesn't count).
NaughtyWord1 votesEh I was mostly talking about crit adcs but that's true, i forgot about black cleaver(and one more thing, trinity force's measly 250 health doesn't count).
I know Black Cleaver is quite often built on 
. I think 
used to build it before this latest patch, I'm not sure if he does anymore.
MessyStuff1 votesI know mf and luc, but i've never seen an ashe build black cleaver and neither have i seen jhin, unless he went an assassin build. Which again none of these are crit adcs(except Ashe and crit jhin usually doesn't build this.
Galaxyburstz1 votes
: P
The thigh guy3 votesOkay. Let’s look at pricing. 800 gold for executioners. 525 gold for the ad on it. That means grevious is valued at 275 on ad.
Let’s look into morrelo You get roughly 2790 gold worth of stats. 2789.17 for those who are anal about accuracy. So you paid 210 gold extra for grevious wounds.
So ap gets a better deal on it actually.
The Highest Noon3 votesThat's not really the question, though. AD has access to early Grievous Wounds whereas AP does not.
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Highest Noon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vby94Vou,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-05-09T01:39:34.963+0000)
That's not really the question, though. AD has access to early Grievous Wounds whereas AP does not.
And ap gets access to it on an efficient first buy item. Going executioners either slows down your core a lot. Or mortal reminder is in your core. And let’s be real. It isn’t.
The Highest Noon1 votesI BEG TO DIFFER. [sg-ezreal]
Early purchase of Grievous is more than useful in some situations such as there being an enemy Mundo who needs significant attention, among other cases of champions with inherant healing. And if you're at a notable advantage, dropping 800 to cut 30% of the healing down? That's well-worth the investment.
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Highest Noon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vby94Vou,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-09T14:35:06.271+0000)
I BEG TO DIFFER. [sg-ezreal]
Early purchase of Grievous is more than useful in some situations such as there being an enemy Mundo who needs significant attention, among other cases of champions with inherant healing. And if you're at a notable advantage, dropping 800 to cut 30% of the healing down? That's well-worth the investment.
If they are healing 800, you are well past the point of having 1-2 completed items. So you’ll already have your morello, which as discussed. Can easily be a core item in any mage. Where as mortal reminder can’t really be core for any melee.
The Highest Noon1 votesNo no I mean dropping 800 because it costs 800 lol
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Highest Noon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vby94Vou,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-09T14:58:52.825+0000)
No no I mean dropping 800 because it costs 800 lol
Again. If they are healing enough that you NEED grevious wounds constantly. You are past the point of having 2 items completed. So as no champion currents cores mortal reminder the 800 has to be tacked onto their price. Mages can go Morello into ludens. 3000+3200= 6200 Adc for example has to go Infinity edge into say. Phantom dancer. For the sake of argument. Then tack 800 gold on for executioners 3400+2600+800=6800
That’s a pretty big difference for the same power level.
So yes. Ad can get it sooner. But it screws their late game. A mage gets it later, but it slots into their core build anyway, so they aren’t sacrificing anything to get it.
Baron Barian2 votesWhat if 
replaced the spell pen for a weaker version of 
's grevious wound, similar to how Bramble and Calling are the weaker variants for their upgraded form?
That;s just my idea about it. Would still cost the most hen compared to bramble and calling, but at least it would still be an earlier GW.
The Highest Noon1 votesThat'd be a neat idea, but someone somewhere made me aware of AP balancing necessary for it.
Bløød Zerø1 votesI feel like grievous wounds should be on oblivion orb and the magic pen of oblivion orb should go back to haunting guise and liandry's. That item was never the same after losing its magic pen. Morello has always and should stay as the grevious wounds item.
The Highest Noon1 votesThat's an idea worth looking into.
is more or less a staple on several ADCs.