Boards›Gameplay

Regarding The Red Response Issues

LegacyDAP··57 votes·3,665 views

As said in a different post by a Red they want quality, not quantity. So I'm going to try to make this as short and sweet as possible while still addressing the issue here.

I believe the community on the boards gets little to no feedback on what's actually going on. Especially the champion gameplay and balance boards. There have been plenty of questions appearing about the issues with the new champions we've been getting, and also questions about the new item changes that are going through PBE. Yet I have not seen a single question answered by a Red. It kind of upsets me that you guys don't interact with the community as much as I thought you used to.

We post on these boards to discuss issues regarding champion balance, and other issues that we, the community, think has a negative impact on the game. We all care about this game as much as you do, some of us even more. I would expect the least you could do is answer some questions the community has. I myself have some too, but that's not the point I'm trying to get to.

We sit here constantly waiting for feedback if we're going to get a fiddlesticks buff due to the fact that RuneGlaive is replacing Magus, or if Vlad is getting a nerf because of the new Will of the Ancients, etc. But there have been no Riot responses giving us closure on the problems that we think are to come in the future of this game. So instead we sit in fear. Waiting for the new changes to come hoping that they're not unbalanced and making the game less fun for others.

So my proposal is that we have more Red responses on these boards. I understand many of you are busy, and may not have the time to answer all of our posts, but I do expect you to respond to the well thought out posts that are trying to make the community as good of a place as they can.

Riot I think you are a great company, and have made a magnificent game, because if I didn't think that I wouldn't be writing this, and I wouldn't care as much as I do now, and I'm sure others feel the same.

I'd like to thank you for your time, and I hope you take my idea into consideration.

tl;dr: I wish for Riot to respond to more posts regarding gameplay and balance.

Edit: Wow thanks for all the upvotes and comments guys! Really appreciate it even if Riot doesn't respond.

44 Comments

Sachabot10 votes

That TL;DR sums it up. I'd like to seem some Reds in G&B and Concepts. I feel like it's two areas we should see the most, but it doesn't really happen.

LegacyDAP11 votes

I'd like to see more on the boards just in general. I'd just expect to see the most in Concepts and G&B, but for some reason I find more in Memes & Games and Esports than I do in both G&B and Concepts combined!

BladeSteel1 votes

The ones that do respond are never in the making of the game, they're always "player relations" or "content QA analyst" probably is part of their job to talk on the boards...

Bouffon dAnglais2 votes

I'd like to see Reds on Help and Support. There is something going on with black screen after Champ Select, many threads about it, no response.

Miss Wake n Bake4 votes

I just don't understand....

Why have a "forum" on your own site if your not even going to use it >.> I mean, if your using a third party site more than your own, whats the point of it even being there in the first place. Just make this page a direct link to reddit.

Just doesn't make much sense to me.

And btw OP, your not coming off as entitled at all, so ignore that guy because the upvotes say different xD

LegacyDAP1 votes

I appreciate it very much. BTW, I think what you're doing with the mystery gifts was amazing. I wanted to add you to say thanks and it's amazing that you're just doing that out of the goodness of your heart, but I didn't want to get disqualified. QQ

I never tried to make people have the mindset of that I think Riot ignores ALL of it's community, but I feel like they do have some sort of misconstruction with their communication to the community, and by posting on the boards, and making the boards more known it stops a lot of those problems.

Miss Wake n Bake2 votes

{quoted}

I appreciate it very much. BTW, I think what you're doing with the mystery gifts was amazing. I wanted to add you to say thanks and it's amazing that you're just doing that out of the goodness of your heart, but I didn't want to get disqualified. QQ

I never tried to make people have the mindset of that I think Riot ignores ALL of it's community, but I feel like they do have some sort of misconstruction with their communication to the community, and by posting on the boards, and making the boards more known it stops a lot of those problems.

Awe thanks, feel free to send the request after the event is over! <333

manliestdino4 votes

In my opinion, Red posts are never made on Gameplay and Balance threads because they are redundant and often spammed. For example, there were a ton of Lee Sin and Zed posts, about how Zed gets this, but X champ doesn't, or how Lee Sin's kit is overloaded. (I actually never got the Zed or Lee Sin QQ, they had obvious weaknesses and strengths). Ekko threads are constantly being made. Leblanc threads were also made a lot. Most threads also address Riot directly, which, correct me if I'm wrong, is not what Riot said they would respond to. Instead, they wanted more of a discussion, not thread title such as @Riot X champion should be nerfed and here are several reasons why, but instead something more like I believe Ekko has too many strengths for his weaknesses, gave their opinion, the people would respond with their opinion, and then Riot would jump in saying what their opinion of the champion is (in this case Ekko). The only exception is when a thread is made about a champion's direct strength, or what might be changed in the future, in which case Meddler would hop in and say what the Balance team's opinion is.

TL;DR Rioters not responding to Balance posts because they are redundant and irrelevant, and addressed directly at them (which is what they don't want). Only time they do is when a discussion is held about them, in which case they will respond, or when a thread is directly made about a champion's direct strength.

Nameless Voice3 votes

While there are a lot of "X is OP nerf please" threads, there are also threads where people talk about specifically what they feel is wrong with a certain champion in the correct terms, e.g. lack of counterplay, too many strengths, not enough weaknesses, etc. - and those almost never get replies either.

Sona Ping1 votes

Yes, those sorts of posts use the "correct language" but I can't count the number of those that are intrinsically devoid of any content. You get posts that are like "His passive is this, his Q is this, his W does this, and his ultimate does this. And that's why it's totally unfair I lost to Cho'gath last game". But those aren't reasons, you see. That's just listing abilities and no matter how many times he writes "no counterplay" about a champion (because counter play is a word a Rioter wrote) they won't ever become reasons. In many of those "Nerf" posts there is quite literally no argument. And this isn't even bringing up the number of those threads where they get information flat out wrong even though it's spelled out in the tool tip.

manliestdino1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nameless Voice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VFKbBAET,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-06-21T13:01:40.274+0000)

While there are a lot of "X is OP nerf please" threads, there are also threads where people talk about specifically what they feel is wrong with a certain champion in the correct terms, e.g. lack of counterplay, too many strengths, not enough weaknesses, etc. - and those almost never get replies either.

These are the ones that are repetitive and redundant. And sometimes just flat out wrong. I'm pretty sure in the Zed and Lee Sin QQ days, a lot of people said they have no "counterplay". Or how they had so many strengths, and not enough weaknesses. But that was wrong. They have weaknesses. It's how you exploit them. I'm just using Zed and Lee Sin as examples because they are the first ones to pop into my head when I hear misinformed QQ.

Silents4293 votes

They respond to plenty of posts on numerous sites, along with posting blogs giving future insights, as well as stating the reasoning behind changes made in updates, they just launched some new series specifically about us asking questions for them to answer.

Stop being entitled, they have done more beyond just responding to whining balance threads.

LegacyDAP2 votes

Just saying I think the community should have more Red responses on their own forums. I mean it helps if they do it on 4chan and Reddit, but the fact that they rarely do it on their own site kind of baffles me.

Sucks that having an opinion nowadays makes you entitled.

It's not like I don't think they talk about balance, because they listen to the community occasionally, but not as much as they should in my opinion. If you look at the champion concepts, and gameplay & balance I saw one Red response. I think that Riot should pay more attention to the community who are trying to get their insight on why "X" champion should, or should not be made, and why "X" champion should or should not be buffed/nerfed.

Silents4294 votes

The reason why you come off as entitled is because you act like they have to listen to the community on every aspect, the community doesn't know best when it comes to balance.

Nameless Voice5 votes

Maybe the community doesn't know best in terms of balance, but one thing that the community can tell you is more subjective things, such as "is this fun or not?" or "do you enjoy playing as/against this?" Those are equally important to the health of League than raw balance.

Silents4293 votes

The community doesn't even know that half the time, they will complain about changes or additions well before they can even try them.

LegacyDAP1 votes

I never said they did, but there is a lot more closure when a Rioter tells them why or why something won't work. I don't expect them to answer every post, but I would like them to answer 30% of them or more.

Silents4292 votes

They answer well over 30%

And you keep ignoring the fact they explain this stuff in patch notes.

LegacyDAP1 votes

Okay. I want you to go back and look at the Gameplay boards, and count how many red posts you see out of how ever many you count. No they don't always explain stuff in the patch notes, and regardless when they do people still have questions they want to ask.

Silents4291 votes

I want you to go look and see how many of them aren't just whining threads, threads that haven't already been answered by Riot, or don't have the requested formatting that the reds liked.

Notice how the number suddenly drops, and you see any post with any legit discussion capability the reds have responded to.

Lord Dusteon2 votes

{quoted}

They respond to plenty of posts on numerous sites, along with posting blogs giving future insights, as well as stating the reasoning behind changes made in updates, they just launched some new series specifically about us asking questions for them to answer.

Stop being entitled, they have done more beyond just responding to whining balance threads.

So how come their posts aren't on the official forums?

LegacyDAP2 votes

That's exactly the point I'm trying to make. Why won't the Red's post on these forums? But they'll post on other third party websites.

Silents4294 votes

They do.

Silents4292 votes

Because they have dev blogs, the show that isn't on any forum, The League reddit vastly out numbers this forum, and they DO post here.

Jari3 votes

{quoted}

They respond to plenty of posts on numerous sites, along with posting blogs giving future insights, as well as stating the reasoning behind changes made in updates, they just launched some new series specifically about us asking questions for them to answer.

Stop being entitled, they have done more beyond just responding to whining balance threads.

Stop bring entitled over what people request or not. God if he wants to give an opinion on something, he should totally avoid a place where people generally give an opinion. Because it's totally unwanted. That's why he's getting the upvotes and you're getting down, because he's 100% in the wrong.

... If he takes that completely seriously I give.

Inphernal3 votes

WE KNOW THAT REDS ARE HERE thats the most annoying part because theyre oh so willing to pop in for a Dank Meme thread any day

Subject 52 votes

Upvoted, I've made a topic very similar to this if you would like me to post the link ^_^

LegacyDAP2 votes

Go ahead. All posts regarding response issues are accepted, but we need Riot to know this is a problem, and it should be fixed.

Subject 51 votes

Had a family emergency, will most likely not happen :P

Nameless Voice1 votes

I also made a similar thread a while back.

(It got one downvote, then ignored)

OldDirtay2 votes

honestly you would have to setup another thread and moderate it and have another thread for the public then add the good points on the main, we do kinda have a vote system with likes lol

but that goes for any topic, but then again id think riot should have said moderator(s) or even maybe as far as some moderator accounts from public people to raise good points...to show to someone else who works for them and somehow implements it to each department to asking questions to the right people to a degree....

think about it this way, imagine how much asking just 5 questions to each department a day on specific topics would improve (for lack of better words) information exchange on whats going on/whats up with specific things or ideas etc....

TLDR it needs structure and people

Manwalrus2 votes

of course, no red response

Dextix LT2 votes

RIot has time to make jokes and so on useless threads, but when something constructive is created, "LUL NOPE"

Teridax681 votes

I agree, there are some communication issues, and I think a lot of it has to do with a communication structure that is, to this day, still pretty decentralized: for example, there are no red posts on these boards to reply to the AP item changes, but on the PBE boards Xypherous sent 89 replies in the past 3 days that gave a lot of info (tl;dr champions who benefit from the AP item changes might get nerfed in the future, but only after the AP changes get enacted, so there'll likely be a period where they'll be crazy strong). Aside from the fact that not everyone can post on the PBE boards, or is aware of their existence, there are also several cases of Rioters revealing crucial information on platforms like Reddit and Twitter without ever following up on the boards, which just makes things even more confusing. I feel Riot needs to set themselves a clear communication plan that they'd share with the community, so that we'd all be on the same page when it'd come to how we could reach out to Riot and get responses to important questions.

LegacyDAP1 votes

I agree. See this is the problem with Riot, they're afraid to switch platforms/add a new one. They simply won't change from Reddit to the boards, because a large part of the League community uses Reddit. However, the problem with that is not everybody uses Reddit, and that can make communication vague for people who use the boards.

Everyone has a League account so anybody can use the boards, and post opinions and ideas, and discuss topics, but they never really made a HUGE announcement about the new boards, so some people don't even know they exist which makes the boards community only a small part of the League community (X < 2%).

And the big problem why they won't respond, is because we're such a small community they think our opinions mean little to nothing, while Reddit has around 20% of the LoL community or even more!

I bet all would have changed if everyone used/knew about the boards, or Riot stopped posting on Reddit. This would stop them from thinking "the Boards opinions mean nothing, because there are not enough people."

P.S. Get rid of the PBE boards? Why not just talk about the PBE changes on the regular boards. Not everybody has a PBE account. It's basically saying "Because you don't have a PBE account you don't have the right to talk about future changes."

Teridax681 votes

As restrictive as the PBE boards might be, they're extremely useful for PBE users to leave feedback on bugs and changes, so I think they should stay. However, when it comes to discussing the overall future of the game, I think it would be a lot better for discussion to take place on the live boards.

LegacyDAP1 votes

They could just keep it posted on the main boards, so non-PBE users are able to ask questions about the new changes, and what the players who are able to use it think of the changes, and ask questions. Or let everyone use PBE and problem solved.

Teridax681 votes

The advantage to PBE-only feedback on changes is that it allows playtesters to report bugs immediately after finding them via play, as well as give immediate gameplay feedback on changes. Since the PBE boards only accept PBE testers, that gives Riot a place where they can get immediate and tangible information extremely quickly, whereas if you merged the PBE boards with Live it would make the whole process a lot more complicated, and would likely dilute the testers' feedback among the live users', which wouldn't come from experience or playtesting.

While I do think the PBE process needs to accept more users, I don't think it would be a good idea to let everyone use the PBE. The PBE is meant to be a testing environment, where users play with the express purpose of testing new content, giving strong feedback and reporting any bugs they find. For this reason, they are also given certain privileges, such as massive amounts of starting IP and RP, and advance access to new content. Even with a sort-of stringent recruitment process in place, there are already a lot of PBE users who are toxic or otherwise non-contributive, and who use the PBE as a means of unlocking skins and champions without paying for them (especially legacy skins). Give everyone PBE access, and you'd multiply that problem by a thousandfold at least. It would also give players no reason to pay for RP content, since they'd get it on the PBE for free, and it would break the PBE server, which is unstable even on its best days. There's also a dedicated community within the PBE who does give really good feedback, and opening the gates would risk drowning them out.

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

Then again there's very few threads that aren't rage/QQ threads. That said any Riot member commenting on anything is taken as an official statement from Riot as a whole. You can understand why they'd be hesitant to make their own thoughts known when it affects all of them as a whole.

Sightless661 votes

questions about the new item changes that are going through PBE ...... if we're going to get a fiddlesticks buff due to the fact that RuneGlaive is replacing Magus, or if Vlad is getting a nerf because of the new Will of the Ancients

You should check the PBE forums. They have been answering questions about those subjects. There are dozens of responses about the AP item changes, we aren't getting a Fiddlesticks buff, and Vlad isn't getting a nerf. That's still their official forums. It would be nice if the redtracker here picked those up, but they do at least have a redtracker there too that you can get info from.

JimmyNtheKudos1 votes

How about a if post gets X upvotes a Riot employee has to chime in?

LegacyDAP1 votes

I find it hard to agree with that, because even good opinions or questions don't reach the certain amount of up votes, and sometimes downvoted.

Like I asked in another thread if they were gonna nerf Ekko (which they are now) but I was downvoted several times, and then somebody else made a similar thread, but had about 50 + upvotes.

JimmyNtheKudos2 votes

Well at the very least it guarantees some kind of communication, and it would have been an answered Ekko thread rather than none.

The Bíg Ticket1 votes

Should see the EUW boards.

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