PSA: If its INTENTIONALLY left in the game it is no longer a "bug"

Eedat·May 20, 2017·39 votes·2,008 views

It is no longer a bug if its been left in on purpose. It's not a "bug" if its intentionally being left in the game.

's animation canceling is no longer a bug and she's balanced around having it

's ward hop is no longer a bug and he's balanced around having it

's Flash -> Bodyslam is no longer a bug and he's balanced around having it

's Ult -> Flash is no longer a bug and she's balanced around having it

Etc, etc. The list goes on.

Already know this thread is doomed because I mentioned certain champs without tar and feathering them. Oh well.

58 Comments

EvilUnicornLordMay 20, 201732 votes

Some bugs are just so good they make the game even better.

For example: https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-21-2015/cVYUkB.gif

MarshbouyMay 20, 20173 votes

Too bad most bugs I encountered did stuff like keep quest specific NPCs stuck inside their house or completely shut me out of the thieves guild.

EvilUnicornLordMay 20, 20171 votes

Thank the nine that Morrowind had a debug mode.

...on the PC version anyway.

GULAG 4 UMay 20, 20171 votes

Is this dark souls?

ArakadiaMay 20, 201722 votes

Honestly, Riven could be so much more easily balanced without animation canceling... I think.

Her animation canceling just makes it impossible to make her fair-ish for both kinds of players. New Riven players feel terrible often and experience Riven players make her extremely strong and faster. The gap is too large.

A shield that scales with AD helps Riven not go tank Riven. Her lack of a resource isn't the reason she has been hard to balance, Kled has no resource but he has a history of being quite balanced. Its not her mobility too, there are plenty of mobile champions that are balanced. And its not her ranged execute. Its the gap between good and bad Riven players.

Automated RivenMay 20, 20174 votes

I, for one, love that riven has such a skill curve. Its why i started playing her in the first place. I wish that there were more champions that you had to invest several hundred games into in order to play them optimally. (of course they should be balanced around what their strongest point is, not the weakest point.)

nice tableMay 20, 20172 votes

personally i find it disturbing how bad riven players are at the game compared to their elo since their mechanics carry them.

Automated RivenMay 20, 20172 votes

That's not specific to riven 1 tricks tho. That's a 1 trick attribute.

nice tableMay 20, 20171 votes

as a volibear one trick i can confirm that i was never carried by my mad volibear mechanics :^)

SaiannaMay 20, 20174 votes

skill curve? More like... Skill gap

This system is binary. Either Riven knows how to aac or doesn't.

JoxcabMay 20, 20171 votes

And just because you can AC certain things doesn't mean you can do it consistently, or do other ACs, or use the best AC combo for a given situation.

ArakadiaMay 20, 20171 votes

It is indeed an attractive and cool feature. It's just too much sometimes.

FoxFyreMay 20, 201716 votes

What about that janky thing where Naut just kinda floats around

Friendly RamMay 20, 20172 votes

Whell it has no gameplay effects and I've yet to see someone who can do it consistently so I'm not sure where it falls.

5000000000000000May 20, 20174 votes

You mean his emote?

######kappa

PaquayMay 20, 20171 votes

Astronautilus bro. Low gravity areas make him flat. :P

MasterOfMetaIMay 20, 20177 votes

but what about Mordekaiser ?

reaperteaserMay 20, 20172 votes

apparently he is an actual champion now

BârdMay 20, 20174 votes

A ridiculous amount of bugs. Trying to fix all of them would take up too many resources, and would likely cause other bugs to crop up.

BobaFlautistMay 20, 20175 votes

Yeah, like Ahri charm interrupting dashes, Chogath and Annie w following targets, Nidalee being able to use her melee aa reset as a ranged attack by stance-swapping rapidly, etc...

The problem with that line of thinking is that Riot fixes bugs based on how much of a priority they think they are and how many resources they would consume, rather than how long they've been around - too many times the community has long decided that a given "bug" was working as intended, when Riot suddenly and arbitrarily decided that it was worthy of their attention.

I mean, really, do you seriously think that Trundle pillar being able to interrupt allied channels (including things like recalls, Nunu ult, Fiddlesticks ult, and Malzahar ) is working as intended, and that Trundle has been pain-stakingly balanced around it? Or do you think it's more along the lines of "Oh shit creating this terrain bugs the hell out and traps people if you let it spawn inside of them, I guess I'll just make it forcibly nudge them to the side" and nobody has gotten around to correcting the fact that it functions as cc?

Personally, I think it's the latter.

crippler38May 20, 20171 votes

I think they may know and think it's ok (the nudging thing) since yorick has the same mechanic on his wall summon letting him knock scuttle to remove its armor or enemies to pop courage.

BobaFlautistMay 20, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I think they may know and think it's ok (the nudging thing) since yorick has the same mechanic on his wall summon letting him knock scuttle to remove its armor or enemies to pop courage.

Yes, that's all fine. But Trundle's pillar interrupts his ALLIES' CHANNELS.

Like, if you're fiddlesticks, a Trundle can use his pillar to interrupt your ulti channel and put it on cooldown.

Mews99May 20, 20175 votes

While i see what you're saying that still doesn't change the definition of a "bug"

5000000000000000May 20, 20173 votes

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/909/991/48c.jpg?noredirect

EedatMay 20, 20178 votes

A computer bug is an error in the coding that causes an unintended result. If it is now an intentional result, it is no longer a bug.

LankPantsMay 20, 20175 votes

It's still an unintentional result, just one that's being intentionally left in the game.

The result of an unintentional action does not change the fact that it was unintentional. Penicillin was an unintentional discovery, it's now manufactured intentionally, that still doesn't change the fact that it was an unintentional discovery.

Riven's animation cancelling and Lee's ward hops are still bugs regardless of if they're being left in the game intentionally because that wasn't the original intention of the code.

Arcus DiabolusMay 20, 20173 votes

I hope people will stop making a fuss over this now.

I got tired of explaining to people that Riven's entire design from the start was based on fighting games, and thus combos via animation canceling, as animation canceling is a core mechanic in fighting games. People got out of hand when it came to claiming Riven's animation canceling was an unintended bug that Riven mains were exploiting, despite knowing nothing of her design process or origin.

LordForrestMay 20, 20176 votes

Uh, no it wasn't. The fighting game influence on her was mainly focused on her passive and 3 cast Q. So she has incentive to weave autos between casts and her Q was meant to give a combo attack feel to her kit, since you could also weave her other spells between casts.

Animation canceling was an unintended effect due to spaghetti code, that Riot decided wasn't cost effective to fix. It actually wasn't even an issue at first because before she was purely strong off of her stats and specific items (Fortitude cheese), but over time of nerfing her to a more balanced state and the rework of Tiamat and addition of ravenous hydra making it much easier to exploit the bug, it became a problem. Because it became a problem she had to be nerfed even more. That is why she is in the state she is now where as a base champion she is pretty shitty, but if a experienced main is playing her she is godawful to face.

Arcus DiabolusMay 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Uh, no it wasn't. The fighting game influence on her was mainly focused on her passive and 3 cast Q. So she has incentive to weave autos between casts and her Q was meant to give a combo attack feel to her kit, since you could also weave her other spells between casts.

Animation canceling was an unintended effect due to spaghetti code, that Riot decided wasn't cost effective to fix. It actually wasn't even an issue at first because before she was purely strong off of her stats and specific items (Fortitude cheese), but over time of nerfing her to a more balanced state and the rework of Tiamat and addition of ravenous hydra making it much easier to exploit the bug, it became a problem. Because it became a problem she had to be nerfed even more. That is why she is in the state she is now where as a base champion she is pretty shitty, but if a experienced main is playing her she is godawful to face.

You DO know how comboing in fighting games work right? They've been using animation canceling as a core mechanic waaay back when it was actually a bug in like the street fighter II days in 1991. Back then, they decided it worked out better with it so they kept it and every single fighting game that came after implemented it as a core gameplay mechanic and balanced around it, taking it away and adding it as needed as well when it was deemed unhealthy. (Illaoi and Rengar anyone?)

So how you can tell me that a character released in 2011 that was based on fighting games was not intentionally supposed to use their core mechanic of animation canceling since 1991 of all things is far beyond me. You just can't tell me they "just so happened" to run into the same bug unintentionally as they did way back 20 years earlier while also referencing the genre that practically institutionalized the use of animation canceling as a gameplay design point.

Its actually ludicrous that people insist on the idea that animation canceling was not intentional and was an exploit. Its like you guys are actively refusing to knowledge some core truths in the place of what would be the most convenient for your view.

Riven was based off fighting games, which have been using animation canceling for over two decades. There is not possible way you can actively reference something then just kinda accidentally run into the 20 year hallmark game mechanic of fighting games.

Riven's animation canceling was intentional from the start.

LordForrestMay 21, 20171 votes

It wasn't. If you look back at all the old stuff from her release, there is no mention of animation canceling at all. It wasn't even a thing until she was balanced and people were trying to find an edge on her. Even then it still didn't become prevalent until the tiamat change and addition of ravenous hydra.

Yes, animation canceling is a core mechanic of fighting games, but they have no place in a game like league. Most other cases of animation canceling are removed, because they cause problems. There are exceptions, like any champion that can exploit Tiamat spaghetti code (others can, Riven is just the most famous). Those tend to be ones that are not cost effective to fix or not easy or consistent to proc. In the case of Riven her base stats were dumpstered so she wasn't broken in the hands of those mains who were exploiting the bug and will be just like yorick and heimerdinger before her left to rot for years before they actually fix anything.

Not Too SeriousMay 20, 20173 votes

Khazix Thank fucking God, it's VOIDBORN PEOPLE!

Kai GuyMay 20, 20172 votes

Your not wrong so have a upvote. If its an issue it will be removed or adjusted as needed. If the feeling is that it is a useful mechanic Azir curve dashes for example, then it remains and riot calculates it into their balancing and the champions power budget.

SwiftKitten88May 20, 20172 votes

its still bad coding...

Ezreal arcane shift cast and Tristana rocket jump cast were not SUPPOSED to be uninteruptable.. but riot just decided they wanted to leave it that way.

they SHOULD be coded as CHANNELS... not CASTS (the difference between the two is cast times are "normally" near-instant and cant be interrupted while channels are longer and can)

but you know... sloppy coding...

UnboundCreatorMay 20, 20172 votes

{quoted}

its still bad coding...

arcane shift cast and rocket jump cast were not SUPPOSED to be uninteruptable.. but riot just decided they wanted to leave it that way.

they SHOULD be coded as CHANNELS... not CASTS (the difference between the two is cast times are "normally" near-instant and cant be interrupted while channels are longer and can)

but you know... sloppy coding...

I mean once you blast yourself off the ground with a rocket launcher i dont think a stun or damage would stop you irl..

MontethePythonMay 20, 20171 votes

I mean once you blast yourself off the ground with a rocket launcher i dont think a stun or damage would stop you irl..

because you'd be dead... things in league don't really correspond to real life at all lol, that being said i'm pretty sure they intended for ezreal to be able to cast his ultimate mid fight barring only getting silenced and rocket jump is literally an escape, so it's used to um escape. I don't think a channeled escape would function remotely well. If for some reason they weren't intended to have these abilities, they have them now and the way they are currently is far more suited to the actual game as well as these champions kits than for them to have channels on those abilities, that'd be ass.

SwiftKitten88May 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I mean once you blast yourself off the ground with a rocket launcher i dont think a stun or damage would stop you irl..

... the irony of that is the only time the stun DOES affect you... once you leave the ground any CC will work.. its just when she is casting it and still on the ground you are immune to cc

xWatersMay 20, 20172 votes

Cool? Not sure why this needed to be addressed. I never see anyone complaining. But hey PSA's --> upvote lul

JVP15May 20, 201710 votes

Because people like to complain about Riot leaving Riven's animation canceling bug and Lee Sin's ward hopping bug, and they are dead serious when they call them bugs.

xWatersMay 21, 20171 votes

Are they dumb or what

FantasySniperMay 20, 20172 votes

Calling it "intentional" doesn't mean it's not a bug. Most of the time, Riot's just unwilling to fix their spaghetti code.

Example: Illaoi 's ult. Instead of fixing her ult's interaction with knock-CC, they just made her CC-immune when she's casting her ult.

Fixed!™

BârdMay 20, 20172 votes

Uh, that's exactly what it means.

A bug means it's there and they mean it to be there.

Illaoi ult is supposed to do that.

Zane ZephyrMay 20, 20171 votes

I'm pretty sure riot's stated before that riven's animation cancelling was coded into the game like that which is why it was never touched.

ArakadiaMay 20, 20172 votes

No it was a bug. They decided it fit her so they kept it.

Automated RivenMay 20, 20172 votes

They just stated in the last patch that they were embracing rivens identity of animation canceling, and as such they were smoothing them out. This implies that it was unintentinal until the most recent patch.

A Basic IslandMay 20, 20171 votes

who the hell calls ward hopping a bug??

mordes bugs are left in the game, highly doubt they're intended to be there

Automated RivenMay 20, 20173 votes

ward hopping was originally a bug that came from wards being coded as minions. Lee sin, jax. katarina exc. were never intended to be able to drop wards as a get out of jail free card. As the game progressed they were balanced around that and now its accepted that its a part of their kit.

A Basic IslandMay 20, 20171 votes

really o.o? That's interesting. I guess i wasn't here for release jax/kat so idrk what im talking about

pretty sure lee sin was intended tho, since i get it was after they were (jax/kat) were accepted as it being part of the game