The next ranged cancer up top lane will be Ziggs

meh. he is a soft counter. You can beat renek as riven it just isnt as easy as say a darius or garen. but riven outscales renek really really hard so the countering only lasts until like level 9 max unless he gets fed.

And what, a Black Cleaver is useful because you dont need to stand next to enemy minions for it to work? I dont understand why thats a downside of Sunfire but somehow doesnt also make the case against the Cleaver as well. Also, with the increased damage Sunfire gives to minions, its really not bad as a waveclear item. Its not as strong as it was back when it was a first-rush core item (since the damage to champions is still a bit low) but for the waveclear? Its pretty good.

For sunfire's it's good for pushing because of the Dot. Aka, you have to surround yourself in enemy minions. Since it's Renekton v. Jayce, that's a horrible idea. Cleaver increases ur AD, and provides you ms when you deal physical damage. It also gives you CDR. That means you can run up to waves, press Q(the Q will do more dmg), and walk away with the rage ms buff to stay safe. The cdr will help you spam Q more to heal more in the long run. CDR on E,W, and R, are also helpful, as Renek is a manaless champ, so he can spam.

If you were to talk about pushing in general, Sunfire's the better option. But it's too janky to use, and, after the nerfs, is a lot less worth it.

And putting yourself further behind by buying expensive offensive items evens the matchup how? If youre going to be behind, defensive items are cheaper and gives you more health/armor to work with. No, you arent going to be a lanebully like Black Cleaver/Titanic Renekton, but we are talking about a situation youre behind to begin with.

When youre already behind, going defensive with a sunfire and being able to E-Q-E a wave (with the Sunfire Burn) while having armor and a higher health pool is more beneficial than trying to go for offensive stats and being unable to tank any harass, leading you to be even further behind.

Cleaver isn't expensive. Triforce, IE, Bloodthirster (mostly ADC items) are. Cleaver's one of the most gold efficient items that exist. If you get cleaver/titanic, you don't have to bully with it. They can help you push the wave and farm up. When people come, you'll ACTUALLY have a fighting chance, and not be a sitting duck.

EQE synergizes better with cleaver than with sunfire. Sunfire is shortranged DPS, while the EQE farming style is more bursty, meaning +phys dmg would be better. The armor would be good if you're constantly taking minion aggro and dmg from the enemy champ. Basically, when you're the bully.

When you're behind, build offensive items. When you're ahead, get defensive items. Items do not reflect playstyle. You can buy cleaver and play safe, or you can get tank items and play aggressive. On Maokai, you rarely get an offensive item, but will still be an aggressor. Ziggs will buy full AP and will still focus more on farm and waveclearing.