Now that RiotRepertoir is leading with a great example...

SaltyToplaneGoat·Jan 9, 2016·55 votes·7,232 views

... could now please the Rioters come out of hiding that really have some serious need of explanation?

I mean, it's great Rep comes out to talk, but then again he can only really talk about his projects - and none of them were that controversial to be honest and the current/future ones (mage rework + Taric) he can't say much about yet for obvious reasons (one is too far in the future, one will hit the PBE in near future anyways, but is not finaly yet).

I'm more looking at certain other designers that have spiked some SERIOUS controversity. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in the CertainlyT-Hater-Faction for I think I can understand his modus operandi and how he views the game and maybe even where the flaw of his design principles lies - but I think people might want to ask him a bit more stuff than they did with Reppy. (Especially since the Morde Rework, which missed its mark so hard the champ is even less played than before from my experience. This is what happens when designers think 100% mechanics and 0% theme.).

Personally I'd be more interested in having a word with the one who failed the rework of our beloved lamia...

Well, at least CertainlyT and Stashu come to mind as I'd love to ask them some questions. Sure there are other designers too surely who people want to ask questions, but those two are the most controversial that come to mind just now. I'm happy about any interaction between devs and community, but right now it feels like Riot just sent someone out while the guys who actually should be standing in Reppy's spot are hiding in the shadows...

95 Comments

RiotBioluminescenceJan 9, 2016117 votes

What RiotRepertoir has done (is doing?!) is nothing short of gob-smacking to me. The dude is STILL posting in that megathread - and it's all being done in his time off. This is so far beyond 'above and beyond' the expected level of Boards posting, even to me, that I have been wracking my brains for the last 48hrs trying to work out if there anything at all I can do to thank him for it.

I am totally humbled by it.

What I'm trying to say, is - that thread is not the new 'normal'. It can't be.

Folks have lives outside the office; many have kids, others significant others, maybe an obsession with collecting tea strainers, maybe ill parents to take care of, maybe a long distance running habit. They're human beings and they need to be allowed to do human things, or they'll turn into husks.

I'm in favor of there being more Boards based communication - I really really am - but please don't put RiotRepertoir in an awkward position for doing such an (in my opinion) awesome thing. I would hate, for example, for someone to tell him off for making the rest of the gang look bad for not being able to meet his incredible example - just because they choose to spend their time off somewhere that's not the Boards.

Also, please realize that what he's doing isn't sustainable. For his health and sanity, he really shouldn't be spending all day in the office, and all night on the Boards to the exclusion of all else. RiotRepertoir - if you're reading this - please remember to take some time to enjoy the overcast weather, walk around a bit, and otherwise reset. Please.

BetweenSkillJan 9, 201624 votes

That's why in my post thanking him, I say that this is far more than we could have ever asked for or expected.

Lower-intensity, but more consistent communication will help both rioters and players out. You guys get the feedback and ideas that you want from us, while we get to interact and be heard by you. It's a win win for everyone :)

(maybe a scheduled Q&A that happens weekly? Or maybe posts for each developer that they can answer questions on about their work?)

LudovicoJan 9, 20162 votes

Folks have lives outside the office; many have kids, others significant others

I sure hope there are many that have both :S .

SaltyToplaneGoatJan 9, 20168 votes

Well, of course I'm not saying this is the "new normal" (what a wonderful idea if it would be possible, but no, let's be realistic).

But at least a single thread by certain Rioters would be enough. They don't need to go hunt up the 200+ responses like Reppy does in his act of selfless madness. But just SOMETHING would be nice. Heck, even something like 20 replies is enough if they hold enough relevant information.

All this pent up agression and hate towards certain Reds won't just disappear if they jus try to sit it out...

RiotBioluminescenceJan 9, 201612 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=V1lQttT8,comment-id=00050004,timestamp=2016-01-09T21:47:04.282+0000)

Well, of course I'm not saying this is the "new normal" (what a wonderful idea if it would be possible, but no, let's be realistic).

But at least a single thread by certain Rioters would be enough. They don't need to go hunt up the 200+ responses like Reppy does in his act of selfless madness. But just SOMETHING would be nice. Heck, even something like 20 replies is enough if they hold enough relevant information.

All this pent up agression and hate towards certain Reds won't just disappear if they jus try to sit it out...

I quite agree - I think that the threads in the Dev Corner are pretty much that exactly. A thread per Rioter, where people can ask questions, get to know them, etc.

I think that the Dev Corner isn't on a lot of people's radar yet - but there are threads there from Fearless, Ghostcrawler, RiotScruffy, Jag, Pwyff, Meddler, FeralPony, Statikk, and Gypsylord. That's a pretty good start?

NefasJan 9, 20162 votes

As the OP mentioned, there are two names missing from that list that are the most controversial and most disliked.

MasalarJan 9, 20163 votes

And if I were one of those 2 I'd be incredibly hesitant to open up a thread knowing it was going to be full of "I hate you" "You killed my champion" "Go kill yourself".

NefasJan 9, 20163 votes

Which is literally the point of this thread. That sort of thing will never go away until they make an attempt at addressing it.

IntakiNineJan 10, 20163 votes

Implying that people who participate in that behavior deserve to be addressed.

RetillinJan 10, 20163 votes

Well that's where the whole Rep thread started from. He responded to a VERY negative post. And saw that the toxicity was from a lack of communication (remember a statement like the Sate of the Season is not communication). So he went all crazy and is answering as many questions as he can. That's called building equity (or good will). It's the ONLY way to change a person's mind.

DecritJan 10, 20161 votes

But even the other devs responded to people geing aggressive towards them, in more than one occasio. CertainlyT is the most exemplar of this case, where he held his own when he opened up the thread about the Morde rework.

In the end he absconded because it was just too much, but he tried and did a fair enough.

RetillinJan 10, 20162 votes

Here is the thing. You can't just answer once in a while and then walk away. Think of good will being something that decays over time. (As it does) You need to work at it a little bit all the time. And once you go into hiding, because you are scared of how people will treat you, then you have to work twice as hard to get good will back.

Riot Rep has had two things work in his favour.

He is relatively new, so he doesn't have a history of "hiding".
He works really hard to at least let the community know he is listening. Even if he doesn't agree.

You can work past 1, but you have to work at it. You can't just show up here and there and call it good.

This whole "lack of communication" (that happens every year for the past 3ish years, can only be fixed from Riot's end. They HAVE to want to fix it. And if they don't want to work at it, then they can not be upset that the player base gets angry at them.

DecritJan 10, 20161 votes

this weirds me out.

You are accusing them of "hiding"... which is a weird term because we never saw them in the first place. They work miles away from us and don' t work directly on boards but have their stuff to do, what is supposed to mean "hiding" in this case!? Just letting a thread be because it is so hostile that there can' t be collaboration is not hiding, is saving time!

Also, you are justifying being hostile to the devs. No. There is no justification. If they are "scared" of communicating, as you say, then is our failure as a community. They have all the right of taking critics and we have the right of being pissed, but we are dehumanizing them this way. And no one wants to feel dehumanized on his job.

Also, lack of communication where!? There was lack of communication in season 2-3 if i recall right, but that' s it. I don' t know if you are comparing it to the early days of season 1 and 2 but honestly that was a different time for a different subject.

Ans now people expects what Repertoir did as a norm. That is insane. The work of Repertoir was a work of love, but i am afraid it will bring hell on boards... and that explains actually a lot on why Rioters keep a not-frenetic attitude on this.

RetillinJan 10, 20162 votes

I think you miss-read what I wrote.

I am not justifying being hostile to Riot. I am explaining WHY people are hostile. You should never call for someone's job, or be a dick to them. But if you start a line of "communication" but only state your feelings/beliefs, and do not accept feedback then you are not communicating. You don't have to DO what boards/reddit say. But you need to understand WHY they are saying what they are saying. It's business relations 101.

If Riot, as they have stated MANY times, admits they are bad at communicating then maybe they are bad at communicating? Ghostcrawler, Meddler, even Bio/Katey have admitted as much. Look at Dev Corner. It started out this REALLY good idea. And now there hasn't been a post for 23 days. With Pwyff saying it's going to take another month or so before they start it up again.

Did you read the Fiora story Riot put out? (on the development of her new kit/model) here

In it Riot Rumtumtummers states:

"The outcry was a stark contrast from what the ChampUp team had expected. It seemed as though the team and players had dramatically different visions for Fiora’s identity and how that identity should be represented."

Riot Rhee states:

"but ultimately it felt like us and players may have started with different understandings of Fiora."

This is due to a lack of understanding how players view the game as opposed to how the devs view the game.

Nobody expects what Riot Repertoir did this week as the norm. If they do, they are crazy. But as you see, a LOT of hostility was either diminished or completely removed because a Rioter took time to communicate. Not just give a statement (ie State of the Season) and leave with no follow up. But an honest to god give and take.

Maybe the answer is Riot hires people to act as a middleman on the boards. (I don't mean hiring someone just hanging out on the boards, but an honest Rioter with a back ground in communication) Someone that can help filter and deliver posts to the Rioters that can answer those posts.

As for Rioters being "afraid". That happens. Let's take the Stashu/Cass debacle. I'm not talking about how good/bad the rework was. I mean the response to it. When we are told, over and over, that Stashu will keep a close eye and follow up on it, players are at least accepting. But after 6 months of NO feedback, we find out (as Meddler said) Stashu was moved off Cass and that NOBODY was keeping an eye on her. CT and his work on Morde has been basically universally panned. Yet the person who did the change doesn't talk about it. It's left to other Rioters to pick up the slack on that. Both of these can be called "hiding".

Again, you CAN'T gain good will without work. If you have ever worked in sales, you know that you must deal with people you don't like in order to bring them back. And Riot wants this "free form" communication that they use now, then they need to change how they handle the "free form" feedback.

JorenciceJan 10, 20162 votes

U can't adress blind hate.

I know people that won't be satisfied till he's fired and all the champions he made erased.

GhastlyGhoulManJan 9, 20167 votes

{quoted}

I quite agree - I think that the threads in the Dev Corner are pretty much that exactly. A thread per Rioter, where people can ask questions, get to know them, etc.

I think that the Dev Corner isn't on a lot of people's radar yet - but there are threads there from Fearless, Ghostcrawler, RiotScruffy, Jag, Pwyff, Meddler, FeralPony, Statikk, and Gypsylord. That's a pretty good start?

There is one caveat with the Dev Corner, which is that in comparison to the responses I've seen in Rep's thread there seem to be a lot more "What ice cream do you like" questions answered and less "What is being done on X champion you worked on?"

Not that we don't want to get to know you guys, but I just thought the Dev Corner would be both more consistent (perhaps a set day of the week, Hump Day updates?) and less superfluous in responses (to me, asking about ice cream preferences as opposed to balance/champ questions is what other FAQs that go on are for).

If it were a set update schedule, perhaps it could focus on hot topics that are being asked frequently on the gameplay boards. Heck, even Mr. Finance guy wizard crab could pop in to say, "Hey guys, we saw on the boards you suggested one refund token/season. Our team is talking/talked about it, and X is what we've decided because of Y, Y, and Y. We would be willing to look at X, however..." (As an example of a currently hot board topic).

How would you feel about something like this?

iainB85Jan 10, 20162 votes

I never knew this Dev Corner existed until you just mentioned it and I am a regular news/forum viewer. Might want to promote/give it more visibility.

RetillinJan 10, 20161 votes

Well, they just said they are going to take an extra month off to line things up. So now that they have launched it, it will be about 2 months of silence in a row.

iainB85Jan 10, 20161 votes

Yea, kind of a poor time to launch it really. You'd think they would have waited until after the holidays to launch it then remain active.

Pika310Jan 10, 20163 votes

I've already asked questions on Fearless' thread, which have been seconded and reiterated by additional players, but he's gone completely silent for more than a month now. I'm not asking that he stay active every single day, but his prolonged silence has meant we're exactly where we were at square one of Ritoers avoiding discussion.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and take a look to see if anyone else was involved with the questions I have, but honestly I wish I could communicate with Ezreal and Guinsoo as they have proven track records of success. While I'm being honest, I do not trust the words of Jag, Fearless, Meddler or Repertoir, they've already lied before, most on multiple occasions.

DecritJan 9, 20162 votes

dude, there' s the dev corner for that.

Sure, lately has been silent, but that because of the Xmas holidays...

RottedApplesJan 9, 20166 votes

{quoted}

maybe an obsession with collecting tea strainers,

Oddly specific. Is there a story behind this?

RiotBioluminescenceJan 9, 201621 votes

{quoted}

Oddly specific. Is there a story behind this?

No, but I am never a fan when it seems like people who have children or other family responsibilities are treated as if their personal time is more important than those who don't. Everyone's spare time is important - doesn't matter what you spend your spare time doing (even if it's something 'silly' like collecting tea strainers).

OxbridgeJan 9, 20168 votes

Why can't Rioters have a percentage of their WORK time be dedicated to forum postings?

MasalarJan 9, 201615 votes

Because there's always a trade off. The more time they spend talking about doing things, the less time they have to spend doing said things. And people already complain about how long it can take stuff to happen, or if something is talked about but doesn't end up being feasible.

I'm sure there's a sweet spot between communicating about work and doing work, but it's going to be hard to find.

OxbridgeJan 9, 20163 votes

I have faith that this community can extend to Riot a little more patience for wanting things to happen in lieu of communication to us about the many things we want to know. Additionally, I believe that Riot can begin projects earlier to make up for the time to meet deadlines, yes? :)

MrSlowDieJan 10, 20161 votes

community's patient is not the only problem Faster development means more content. More content means more money, Riot is a company, they seek money.

and currently they have project being work on, mages update, taric rework, shen rework, jhinn, etc. Constantly brainstorming, doing internal-testing, etc. If they have to sacrifice their "outside office" life just to post in the boards, I don't know what it cost to begin projects earlier

and champion's patience is also matter. how long yorick and urgot have to wait if the development become slower? They have been waiting for years already.

Duke AnaxJan 10, 20161 votes

Yeah but the thing is this "faster development" doesn't actually produce more content, because they have to constantly redo things they have already done and the pipeline is full. of stuff that failed and they need to revisit again.

There is a saying: wortk smarter, not harder. Doing more doesn't mean you actually get more done.

Repertoir understands that, that's why he posts so much more than the otehrs. As he said somewhere in his megapost, His Work has always become much better after he exposed it to community feedback.

MrSlowDieJan 10, 20163 votes

"slower development" doesn't give an equal amount of content either, because of the same reason but with more problem called time.

and "work smarter, not harder" is false in this situation as Bioluminescence said, Riot Repertoir spends all his day in the office and his night posting in the boards. He clearly work harder and smarter.

what Riot Repertoir does: 100% of his work time for work 10% of his free time for community result = Better result

what other Rioters do: 100% of their work time for work 5% of their free time for community result = Average

what you propose all rioters to do: 90% of their work time for work 10% of their work time for community result = ???

there's no guarantee the third result can beat the second and first.

Duke AnaxJan 10, 20162 votes

Repertoir has done exceptional work these past three days, but his regular mode operandi seems really effective and is appreciated by the community.

Not sure how much of that was done in his free time, but I know for a fact, that Meddler does most of his Board psots during work time, usually in the slack period between two meetings and stuff.

While hIs communication is not as good as Repertoir's (he often lacks follow up responses) he still does an acceptable job despite being the Lead Designer and pretty busy.

ModKnightsKemplarJan 9, 20164 votes

Thank you for posting this. I am mad for him, even though he clearly has the best attitude imaginable. I don't think that's what people on these boards want, for the most part, but that's what they get when they whine. People who aren't looking on boards aren't going to look when you whine about them not looking at boards.

You, Meddler, RiotRep, KateyKhaos, and a few others are doing a really good job responding. Some of us understand that you can't be online all the time... haha. Thanks for doing what you do.

NinjaGuy69Jan 10, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Also, please realize that what he's doing isn't sustainable. For his health and sanity, he really shouldn't be spending all day in the office, and all night on the Boards to the exclusion of all else. RiotRepertoir - if you're reading this - please remember to take some time to enjoy the overcast weather, walk around a bit, and otherwise reset. Please.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: He's the hero we need, but not the one we deserve. I believe he goes above and beyond to communicate ideas with the community because he's just that passionate about League of Legends and wants to do his best to provide the best possible experience for the players. His is a noble endeavor, indeed. You're also right about another thing, madam - he does put some of the other Rioters to shame, but they're the very small subset of Rioters who I like to refer to as the rebellious "Fringe Elements". They know who they are and unfortunately, they'll probably never follow in Repertoir's example. This is not because they don't care, it's simply because their egos are too big for them to admit their errors and learn from their mistakes. Aside from the Fringe Elements, I think the vast majority of Rioters already do a great job of providing an open dialog for players, including yourself. I'd try to fit a CLARITY meme in here somewhere, but I feel like that horse has already been beaten dead. Finally, if you see the bae Repertoir soon, please do tell him to get some sleep. Thanks!

MelledoneusJan 10, 20161 votes

Could you guys give designers certain days to answer questions on the boards? Or have a communication system between the people on the boards and the actual designers so that they can just go up to the designer's office (cubicle? jail cell? I have no clue how you guys divide offices) and ask them, "hey, boards are asking about any possible reworks for Eve. Could you PM me an answer to give them?"

While this isn't the most optimal system, I admit, it could be a step to establishing better communication on the boards.

RiotBioluminescenceJan 10, 20163 votes

I have actually spotted a thread or two directed to Rioters I know personally, and sent them the link. I work with Morello, so it's usually him I give the heads-up to (but of course - he's not as directly connected with League these days) but I sometimes send "DOES ANYONE KNOW WHO IS THE MOST RELEVANT PERSON FOR THIS!?" emails.

In RiotRepertoir's (epic) thread, he mentions it takes 75% or more of his Boards-browsing time to find a thread that is timely, relevant to his knowledge, and something he's able to talk about right now.

It's pretty difficult to feel like I'm making good progress on reaching out to a lot of players, when 75%+ of the time I spend on Boards is spent looking for questions I can even answer.

Maybe there's a system we can introduce where, as you say, people who can't answer the questions can still surface them for the people who might be able to answer them. I don't know. Maybe like bug tracking?? There's no dev time available on the actual Boards software at the moment (alas!) so it'd have to be human-powered. Bug tracking might actually work, as it's a paradigm that dev type people are familiar with.

Oh, and I believe it's 'pits' - the League teams work in pits I think. Not being on League directly myself, I'm not 100% sure, but I've heard the term bandied about.

Hyrum GraffJan 10, 20163 votes

{quoted}

and it's all being done in his time off.

This is rather the heart of the problem to me. Repertoir is, of course, always welcome here in his time off. But time off should be just that: time off. And he should have to spend all his time off -- no, he shouldn't have to spend ANY of his time off communicating with us here. It should be a built in part of his day. Of every Rioter's day. Half an hour after lunch, spend 20 minutes reading social media and 10 minutes writing a response or two. If every Rioter did that, and we ended up with maybe 20 red posts over here per day, plus maybe 20 more over on reddit -- that's all I'd need to feel satisfied.

Now, there's a big part of this I overlooked: the 20 minutes of reading and 10 of writing is not a good estimate at the moment. Boards and reddit require much more time to find a constructive post that you have the expertise to contribute to. That's a problem with the tools here, and I'm excited for the release of Riot's own ask.fm-esque platform.

Duke AnaxJan 10, 20162 votes

You know that's what totally perplexes me.

Of course no one expects something like this as normal, but it is clear that something like this was needed right now, because there was way too little before. There needed (and still needs) to be something to make up for what has been missing for so long.

However the thing is RiotRepertoir already exceeds our expectations in his normal mode of operandi and now HE is the one guy that neds to steps up to HIMM'S challenge by going beyond above and beyond to make up for his colleagues failings.

And then, even after three days of this, none, NONE of them have joined him with anything remotely simmilar.

As for what you can do to thank him: you are already doing it, you already did it for am long time, Because you and KateyKhaos and maybe Meddler are the few Rioters that Repertoir didn't need to compensate for.

Although I'd really like to see you post a thread aboud discussion your project ;D

Troy242621Jan 10, 20162 votes

{quoted}

What RiotRepertoir has done (is doing?!) is nothing short of gob-smacking to me. The dude is STILL posting in that megathread - and it's all being done in his time off. This is so far beyond 'above and beyond' the expected level of Boards posting, even to me, that I have been wracking my brains for the last 48hrs trying to work out if there anything at all I can do to thank him for it.

I am totally humbled by it.

What I'm trying to say, is - that thread is not the new 'normal'. It can't be.

Folks have lives outside the office; many have kids, others significant others, maybe an obsession with collecting tea strainers, maybe ill parents to take care of, maybe a long distance running habit. They're human beings and they need to be allowed to do human things, or they'll turn into husks.

I'm in favor of there being more Boards based communication - I really really am - but please don't put RiotRepertoir in an awkward position for doing such an (in my opinion) awesome thing. I would hate, for example, for someone to tell him off for making the rest of the gang look bad for not being able to meet his incredible example - just because they choose to spend their time off somewhere that's not the Boards.

Also, please realize that what he's doing isn't sustainable. For his health and sanity, he really shouldn't be spending all day in the office, and all night on the Boards to the exclusion of all else. RiotRepertoir - if you're reading this - please remember to take some time to enjoy the overcast weather, walk around a bit, and otherwise reset. Please.

**I don't like the idea that we can't criticize a Rioter's philosophy or it will be taken personally. **

This'll get downvote nuked or ignored but I think it's important to realize some developers just consistently make HORRIBLY received design decisions. I can't pretend that they're doing a great job to avoid hurt feelings, and if it makes the game better, unfortunately, I WILL voice them.

However, I WOULD say that specific complaints are necessary, rather than "X developer sucks."

LeadpaintchipsJan 14, 20161 votes

I have to agree, just because we (as a community) dislike a design choice, doesn't mean that those of us who act like adults are personally attacking the Rioter(s) involved. We can disagree on design, philosophy, any number of things, but it's not an attack on ther person, just the product.

LeadpaintchipsJan 11, 20161 votes

Bio, I know you dip into the boards a lot, and the amazing amount of communication from Rep is borderline unhealthy (we still love you!), just getting feedback from you guys is awesome and what we want. I would love to be able to understand where the designers for champs/items/reworks/sounds come from, and to have a meaningful conversation with them.

Some back and forth would be great.

VhalthoriaJan 11, 20161 votes

The bashing towards CertainlyT was justified, he simply earned it.

He ignored Morde players' concerns in the official PBE thread.
"Justified" why he did the changes and cared less about our opinions on the subject.
Every constructive critisism everywhere was met with him explaining why he knows better and was doing it anyway.
Forced his way while caring little on the impact it would make on the playerbase.
There was simply zero consideration on every single concern the playerbase had resulting on this mess of a rework Morde had. Everybody saw how bad this was going to be even before going live, I'm just surprised the all knowing CertainlyT didn't. Then after a while the rework was live, he admitted things weren't doing as espected. (Well no shit, Sherlock)

What can I say? He did a great job making me quit League completely. And to this day I have zero (0) interest in coming back.

So you know, when you want to get rid of a portion of your consumer base, put him in charge of the demolition team.

I'm still disgusted with the shitty treatment us Morde players had with this overall rework trainwreck. Now, we are just left aside due to more ambitious projects, this is insulting. That's how you lose support.

BastionKrossJan 9, 201622 votes

Rep could get away with making a thread like that. He's made mistakes, but he's always done his best to remedy them when the players were unhappy. He's got one of the best reps among the Rioters, and people like him. He's open and honest, and doesn't talk down to players that question his decisions. In fact, he seems to take player suggestions quite easily; that's mind-blowing when you're used to other Rioters.

Now just imagine if CerT or Stashu made a thread like that. The amount of hate and vitriol contained inside would drip from it and run down the front page. Half the posts would be nonconstructive criticism or just outright insults. They'd have to start the thread off with an apology and admitting that they've made mistakes to even begin to have a civil discussion, and even then it would probably turn into an "I'm sorry" thread rather than the intended FAQ thread.

That being said, there's other Rioters that could probably get away with a civil FAQ thread. Meddler would be a hot one since he's seemingly got his hands in just about everything. KateyKhaos would be a very civil one as well, if perhaps a little underwhelming. Lyte would just be hilarious since banned players would fill the thread with all kinds of nonsense, although that would block most reasonable discussion. Scruffy would be... interesting.

SaiannaJan 9, 20163 votes

Grammar Nazi wants to provide you a secret intel:

He's =/= He has

Moving on.. CT/Stashu get all possible hate from unhappy players BECAUSE they didn't make such threads. If they were communicating with us from the start, they'd be liked by us just as Rioter Rep is.

BastionKrossJan 9, 201610 votes

They were communicating, it's just the communications were less "I understand you have a problem with that. How can I make it better?" and more "I'm right, you're wrong, here's why."

Rep makes threads to get player feedback, CT/Stashu makes threads to defend their decisions. Huge difference.

SaltyToplaneGoatJan 9, 20166 votes

Although there is a tiny difference in "justified defence" and "Me, who is holier than all you peasants, shall declare my wonderous decisions. Be witness or rott in hell for all I care" - because if we were actually honest there was not much good to defend in their reworks...

Just wanted to point that out.

KaisadiIIaJan 9, 20165 votes

He's =/= He has

Grammar Nazi Captain has something to say:

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/he's

contraction of he is.
contraction of he has.

I guess we'll downgrade you in the Grammar Nazism Hierarchy.

SaltyToplaneGoatJan 9, 20162 votes

Well, even when a tidal wave of hatred comes crashing down upon them, that's what they'll have to go through, there's sadly not a way around that as there is just too much pent up aggression on the boards. Because if they keep hiding that's not really helping the problem. I think once the initial hate wave has passed thinks have the potetial to get civil again...

Also, Lyte is a special case as he is THE rioter when it comes to bans. I know that there are many good rioters there, but sadly the good ones have no need to really explain themselves. Personally I'd see someone from Lore&Foundations to leak some little bits of info, but that is nothing for this board right here ^^

They gonna get out there and face that initial hate surge. That's what you get from hiding from your responsibility and letting things pile up. They all could learn a big deal from Reppy, that's for sure tho...

Teridax68Jan 9, 20162 votes

I don't think online rage works that way. When Riot doesn't answer hostile threads that insult them and demand responses, the people posting them get mad and accuse them of dodging sensitive issues, but if a Rioter gives an honest answer, they still get mad for Riot not giving them what they want, particularly since many requests in those threads (i.e. "revert X rework" or "fix this champion who's had serious kit issues for years within the week") are just not reasonable. If Riot comes to talk with players without anything conclusive to say about sensitive topics, e.g. Mordekaiser, Cassiopeia, Rengar, etc., other than they're working on it, then it's not really going to help with people who come in looking for a confrontation, nor will anything else, even if it's useful for most others. At that point, just laying low on the boards might be the best solution to avoid filling up the forums with rage posts.

SaltyToplaneGoatJan 9, 20162 votes

But online rage works in a quite simple way: people get bored of it quite easily. So when the first or maybe even the second wave of hate is gone, people are too lazy to post their hate all over again - and at that point you'll be able to have a normal civil conversation - but you won't get that chance without letting the mob "discharge" all that pent up aggression first.

But laying low doesn't solve any problems apart from giving the repsective rioters really shitty images in the community - something that might even damage the image of Riot somehow. I doubt a company wants that...

Teridax68Jan 9, 20166 votes

People have been raging at Riot pretty much since the game got launched, sometimes for years -- just look at the people still making heated threads today about Karma, for example, or Cassiopeia or Sona, as though they had been changed only a few days ago. It's not something that dies out, and even when it's not about a particular hot-button issue there are many users here who create threads on a semi-regular basis, or jump on existing bandwagons, to use whichever issues are most relevant right now to vent at Riot. There hasn't really been any single case of boards "discharging" aggression and then mellowing out, even with RiotRepertoir's threads, and if anything the opposite tends to happen, with what few posts by Stashu or CertainlyT getting picked up and thrown around in outrage across the front page every time they try to answer something, with no real long-term change in boards toxicity thereafter.

I also don't think it's really fair to expect Rioters to throw themselves to the lions just so that the boards can vent their pent-up anger at them -- they're people, not punching bags, and even if they've made mistakes in the past, they still made those mistakes while trying to work as hard as they could to make a better game for us all. The onus here isn't on them to offer themselves up to people who constantly belittle them and their work, it's on us to take a step back from our personal frustrations and meet them halfway in establishing more productive discussion. This whole issue of hostility and confrontation should, by all rights, not exist -- we're all on the same team here, playing the same game and trying to reach the same goals of fun for everyone. There is no sense in us treating Riot like it's some enemy trying to screw us over at every turn and deliberately ruining our fun, and the fact that so many people here seem to genuinely think that shows a serious lack of maturity. This isn't something that can be solved by just getting it out of the boards' collective system, it's a core problem with the system itself, and we need to defuse the toxicity on these boards if we truly want to make the best use of everyone's time in developer discussions.

Teridax68Jan 9, 20169 votes

I feel "leading by example" here goes both ways: the reason that thread was so positive wasn't just because RiotRepertoir took the time and effort to talk to us, but also because most of the people there were willing to engage in civil conversation and ask him interesting questions. When it comes to other Rioters, like CertainlyT or Stashu, they would very likely have a hard time creating a productive discussion even if they put in twice as much effort as him, because there'd be an overwhelmingly large amount of vitriol drowning out what few good points might come up. Even on RiotRepertoir's thread, there was a huge amount of posters who were there just to rage at him for touching Kog'Maw. RiotRepertoir keeps raising the bar for communication on Riot's side, but we, the boards community, need to do the same if we want that communication to run as smoothly as we want it to.