edge of night should give stealth instead of a shield

Big Lincoln·Aug 17, 2017·19 votes·1,002 views

melee only

76 Comments

ValyrianBladeAug 17, 20173 votes

First problem - that eliminates lethality builds from viability for the likes of quinn /Jayce / etc... if they can only build 2 lethality items.

Second, giving everyone access to a kha'zix ult via items seems dangerous. It'd probably become a rush item for most ad junglers.

Big LincolnAug 17, 20175 votes

neither of them build edge anyway

sneak boys ehehe

Variks the LoyalAug 17, 20171 votes

I honestly think that Jayce and Quinn could recover from not building Edge.

And it's not really a Kha ult. If you imagine it as, like, a 3 or 5 second stealth with a 1 second channel and a 45 second cooldown, not too bad.

warpenguin555Aug 17, 20173 votes

Pantheon with invis.

Yeah no

SujirenAug 17, 20172 votes

That would be interesting actually.

Big LincolnAug 17, 20171 votes

sneak boys ehehe

OleandervineAug 17, 20175 votes

Interesting in that it would break the shit out of every melee champion out there. There's a reason Evelynn was nerfed into oblivion, to the point where she needed a VGU to get her back on course.

Big LincolnAug 17, 20171 votes

nah melees are balanced always

Variks the LoyalAug 17, 20172 votes

No? Not every melee champion wants the stats that Edge of Night provides; Mundo with Lethality and AD would be pretty shit.

And it's not like it's permastealth. It'd be, like, 3 seconds of Stealth after a 1 second channel and a 45 second cooldown.

ExecutionerAug 17, 2017

Of course it wouldn't be permastelath, however the reason of 5 seconds of stealth on any melee? Sure worse off on some champions however being stealth for 5 seconds! If someone knows whats warded and not warded they could very easily get into a better position to kill the adc, or well any squishy for that matter. The moment the first level of turrets go down is when hell truly begins on the enemy team.

Im gonna use zed and assassins in general would love this item. They would if not warded start up the channel. Now it would most likely work like a eve or twitch stealth.

They would simply walk up without using a gap closer and auto attack for the proc of the duskblade since that item would be first or second on them. Now the adc or whoever has to flash or use a escape tool to get some kind of distance. The assassin would simply use his escape or mobility spell to close the gap, and then simply flash if they flash sticking to the target with ease if they didn't already combo them to death.

Assassins would the absolute abusers of the item. Any squishy target, not truly has to ward everything and keep it warded every time just so they farm safely.

AhristocatsAug 17, 20173 votes

{quoted}

They would simply walk up without using a gap closer and auto attack for the proc of the duskblade since that item would be first or second on them.

you're able to think as an adc main

good job on noticing that this would allow assassins to do assassin things like CATCHING AN ADC ALONE

if you're alone as an adc you deserve to get destroyed until you no end , that's how the game was until riot catered your class

ExecutionerAug 17, 20171 votes

Why? Because doing one function of a job would actually make them instantly that much better? Wukong isn't an assassin, but a bruiser. Would he get the item? Fuck yeah he would. Would many brusiers get that item too? Fuck yeah they would get that item. Also junglers would get that item. They would be setting up 3 mans with fucking ease. No strategy, just abusing a broken item over here guys.

Also why not see it from there perspective, playing ADC in the early, and mid game would be even more abusive than anything seen in the other seasons.

After the first turrets are gone, the other team would basically becoming turret huggers. Wanna walk into your jungle and clear the wards possibly? Fuck no, you dont know what assassin, jungler or brusier is hiding in that jungle with that item. They would be setting up snow balls faster than anything ever before.

Variks the LoyalAug 17, 20171 votes

Wukong is also a really outdated champion that Riot has said they're looking to update.

Variks the LoyalAug 17, 20171 votes

Of course they would, it'd be intended for them.

One problem that AD Assassins have right now is reaching their intended targets with the plethora of CC that there is. This would help them immensely and perhaps bring them into actual meta viability.

If the target is an ADC, they have a Support to help them, either locking down the Assassin or providing big shields or heals to protect the ADC.

If the target is a squishy Mage, they have utility spells of their own that often include stuns or slows that would allow them to make distance. Double that if a Support is nearby.

If the target is alone, then yeah, the Assassin probably wins, but that's the intended interaction. The secret to outplaying the Assassin is to not be caught in a situation where they can jump on you; not face checking, sticking with your teammates, warding properly, etc. If you don't do that, then of course the Assassin will blow you up, because that's what Assassins do.

I think it'd be a balanceable item that would be good for Assassins without making them overbearing. It might even teach people to ward.

AhristocatsAug 17, 20171 votes

evelynn has PERMANENT STEALTH

not 5 sec stealth

OleandervineAug 18, 20171 votes

I am aware of this. But her original kit had high burst and a stun, which made her utterly busted and forced a rework. Anyone who can buy an item to CC someone from stealth and then murder them would abuse the shit out of this item for the very reason that Eve was nerfed. Anyone who deals massive burst would abuse this item. Giving out stealth like candy, no matter how short, is a terrible idea.

A Bad NasusAug 17, 20172 votes

Sneaky assassin doggo Nasus here we go!

SlythionAug 17, 20172 votes

plz no, I hope this is only being upvoted because it's a joke >_<

Big LincolnAug 17, 20172 votes

it's a good idea tbh

WinTheWarOnPantsAug 17, 20172 votes

Darius Yeah, you can take that idea and shove it up your http://www.calvarybirmingham.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/laughing_donkey.jpg pls.... Edit: also riot has said that they will never do something like this(i mean it is riot tho) since they know that it would completely break the game. "source: lux development"

Big LincolnAug 17, 20171 votes

no swearing pls

WinTheWarOnPantsAug 17, 20171 votes

fixed it

Variks the LoyalAug 17, 20172 votes

Darius would be pretty useless with Edge of Night since it doesn't make him any tankier.

And it's not like it gives his slow ass any movement speed.

Yeah, there could probably be cheese with a full Lethality Darius, but cheese is cheese.

WinTheWarOnPantsAug 17, 20171 votes

he still has 5 more item slots to be as tanky as he wants. Plus his tankyness is needed to survive being kited, if he is stealth ed then he doesn't need tankyness nearly as much. Also, he has 340 base MS which is well above average.

Variks the LoyalAug 17, 20171 votes

But not nearly as tanky.

Yikes, Darius popped out of stealth! Good thing I have CC from my Support, Top Laner, and potentially my Jungler, a lot of shields and heals from my Support, and I have a lot of escape/fighting tools like Heal, Flash, Cleanse, Barrier, Sash, Zhonyas, PD, and perhaps other tools depending on my champion to help me survive while my team locks down the Darius who has no mobility or ways to close a gap and also has no frontloaded damage and requires stacking of his passive to finish me off which is impossible when he's being CC'd.

Also, good thing I ward bushes and don't facecheck bushes for enemy Juggernauts like a good player.

WinTheWarOnPantsAug 17, 20171 votes

Holy shit man i never realised! I'm sorry i'm an idiot! I forgot that since darius doesn't have stealth that means all those things you listed are 5 times more effective against him. I guess that's why he has never won a game and has a 20% winrate. thanks for setting me straight. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

ExecutionerAug 17, 20171 votes

Nice sarcasm.

Variks the LoyalAug 17, 20172 votes

It's actually not a terrible idea. It does require a 180 in terms of Edge's original direction, but it's original direction turned out to be kinda unbalancable anyway (Half the reason why they removed the MR and added HP).

item 3134 + item 1038 + 700g = 3100g

65 Attack Damage 15 Lethality

Active: Channel for 1.5 seconds, and become Invisible for 3.5 seconds. 45 Second Cooldown. Damage interrupts the channel, you can channel while moving, and if the channel is interrupted, goes on a 5 second cooldown.

AhristocatsAug 17, 20172 votes

i agree with your idea of item but it doesn't requiere a 180 in terms of the original direction

original direction was helping assassins to engage, however the spellshield unless it lasts for 10 sec and is overpowered doesn't help at all a stealth helps better to engage for them, and catch out of position marksmen

but then, you have the board telling you that it's going to be broken on alistar they need to seriously buy a brain

Variks the LoyalAug 17, 20171 votes

When I said 180, I mean it'd be retooled into a utility/skill item instead of an item that directly grants defense (Such as MR or HP).

BobaFlautistAug 17, 20172 votes

Quinn Valor is melee...

Sire HippingtonAug 17, 20171 votes

Alistar the unseen cow is the deadliest...

It should have some restrictions or short duration and a great visual cue, else it might be broken as initiation tool on somw tanks.

AhristocatsAug 17, 20173 votes

alistar with eon?

the board should buy a brain

Pierce The VealAug 17, 20171 votes

Casting edge of night now turns a regularly visible area of the map into fog of war. Bam

Stevev45Aug 17, 20171 votes

No stealth. Just predictor level camo. So you have to look for the tell tale shimmer.

CremepieAug 17, 20171 votes

POOF Suddenly in your face.

Valor BotAug 17, 20171 votes

Malphite would be hilariously broken with this item, doesn't even matter that the Lethality would be wasted on him, the active alone would push him too far over the edge past level 6.

AhristocatsAug 17, 20175 votes

malphite is a champion that does not scale with ad and only scales with armor and hp malphite doesn't use lethality

you would use 3k gold to get stealth for an ult and then deal no damage that's so broken LUL

Variks the LoyalAug 17, 20171 votes

... Because he can ult from Stealth?

Just back off when you see him channel it.

SpoofghoulAug 17, 20171 votes

Interesting

Makes sense too

But perhaps stealth is too good and camouflage might be better, make it 6 seconds with 0,5s channel for synergy with youmous as well as with duskblade

and there will be abuse cases too Sion stealth train incoming JarvanIV stealth crater of doom

but canceling the stealth on ability cast or when attacking would prevent most abuse cases so there is a solution, at the same time this would give enemies a chance to react as you engage because you would reveal yourself

Glory ln DeathAug 17, 20171 votes

Not going to comment on the "melee only" tag, because we all recognize that it's just part of Big Lincoln's juggernaut propaganda schtick.

I really like the idea of the stealth active, but I can give you one example that demonstrates why it should never happen.

Full AD/Lethality Sion with invisible ults.

Big LincolnAug 17, 20172 votes

juggernauts have nothing to do with this, this is a serious suggestion and I don't appreciate you mocking me

sion etc can be solved by stealth deactivating when you use a spell. afaik sion can't use actives or summoner while ulting so this covers all fields

Glory ln DeathAug 18, 20171 votes

I'm not mocking you. I'm mocking the fact that you suggest making items melee only as the solution for every item change you propose, and the fact that the two words "melee only" is the only content to your post.

Now, if the stealth active were the only part of the item that was melee only, and it had some other incentive that would make it a mediocre purchase on ranged champions (if, for instance, the stealth was added to Youmuu's Ghostblade active, rather than Edge of Night, or added to Edge on top of the spellshield - allowing ranged champions to still get some use out of the item besides just stats, but still lose out on a major part of the active), that would be acceptable. But just slapping the "melee only" tag onto every item you feel is kept down because of ranged champions isn't a good suggestion.

Honestly, I think it would fit better on Youmuu's, especially if the stealth deactivates when you use a spell. The movement speed would help many champions who would like to use the stealth, but would have to break it by using an ability to get into position (Talon's parkour, Kayn's Shadow Step, etc). Make the movespeed linked to the stealth, so once you enter combat, you lose the movespeed, too. Giving the movespeed a channel would fit with the item, as well, since it's supposed to be all about out of combat speed and getting to a fight, rather than moving around quickly while already fighting.

Like I said in my original comment, I like the idea, but it needed more thought behind it. When your only follow-up on the idea is "melee only", don't be surprised when people pick at it.

Big LincolnAug 18, 20171 votes

i can't recall suggesting another item be made melee only

reporting you for slander

SwiftKitten88Aug 17, 20171 votes

im honestly not sure if this would make it better or worse XD

Evil YasuoAug 17, 20171 votes

This was literally one of my ideas. I said to get rid of blackout on duskblade and add a stealth to wards mechanic on edge of night. Like stay invis when you trigger a ward for 5 seconds.

The Darius KingAug 18, 20171 votes

Ah I can imagine darius with this. popping up next to an adc without without warning and slaughtering them

ExecutionerAug 17, 2017

I honestly dont want to think of assassins grabbing that item. Then they have duskblade over that? Oh jesus, may as well call in the funeral for ADC or any squishy champion.

Oh, almost forgot to mention how long would the stealth last? That is what I would be most curious about, would make or break the item.

Big LincolnAug 17, 20172 votes

permanent hehe