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Can we not all just say 'Champ X is "abusing" thing Y

CaptainAntiHeroz·Jun 22, 2019·1 votes·1,185 views

Like i get it + annoys people, doing anything at all means the item or rune will be nerfed and he'll get a new skin next patch, and I get that instead of balancing things people like theyll rework it to try to balance it () then mess up and not revert it but banish it from anything short of proplay, or try to balance something by tweaking it because its too powerful . Those are reasonable complaints, but just because something is strong doesnt mean its automatically "being abused" thats like saying assassins abuse because all ad assassins build it. Its complaining about a champ for playing them in a way that works and/or is recommended. And i get some things are being "abused" but how does one even define 'abusing' something if every positive thing is a champ ABUSING NEW INSANE EXPLOIT

But feel free to debate below about what Abusing a thing is below but keep it civil folks thanks

18 Comments

Moody PJun 22, 20192 votes

When has Illaoi ever been too powerful

CaptainAntiHerozJun 22, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UoZMtwOg,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-22T16:54:30.207+0000)

When has Illaoi ever been too powerful

Have you seen the pbe changes for illaoi though? like how is that changing a champ to balance her

wolviusJun 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Have you seen the pbe changes for illaoi though? like how is that changing a champ to balance her

I'm pretty sure the s@20 changes have an error riot didn't mention anything about removing the AD ratio. I think they just meant to add an ap ratio.

Edit:Yeah they forgot keep the ad ratio in the text. https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nmUrwwcs9rc/XQRflIF4qgI/AAAAAAABU9w/Iz4A0mbINMIJBXlR6VpXUJ2P-6-QxjG1wCLcBGAs/s1600/illaoipassive.png

Moody PJun 22, 20191 votes

because she's dog shit right now and is getting appropriate buffs and QOLs?

CaptainAntiHerozJun 22, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UoZMtwOg,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2019-06-22T18:25:33.771+0000)

because she's dog shit right now and is getting appropriate buffs and QOLs?

illaoi is dog shit? tell the to the top lane community bro sounds like you missed the memo about how op illaoi is in lane

Moody PJun 22, 20191 votes

so op she has a 47% winrate and nobody plays her?

alright

MordridtheBlackJun 22, 20191 votes

the issue lies in with some of those items aren't exactly meant to be built on those champions, which then throws of the meta of the game

by players seeing stuff like that and pointing it out to Riot, they can objectively look at it and go either "Yeah this needs to be fixed.", "Keep an eye on it.", or "That seems fine, odd...but fine."

CaptainAntiHerozJun 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

the issue lies in with some of those items aren't exactly meant to be built on those champions, which then throws of the meta of the game

by players seeing stuff like that and pointing it out to Riot, they can objectively look at it and go either "Yeah this needs to be fixed.", "Keep an eye on it.", or "That seems fine, odd...but fine."

the main problem with that is "meta" because if its in the shop and i can buy it whose to say it wont work for me (with some excpetions like mana on Garen etc) because otherwise the game would limit what you can buy more idk it just feels like people saying For example 'Ardent (yes the cursed item) is to strong on shield supports they abuse it' Yes its strong because shields were nerfed and Ardent is what supports can buy to have a bigger impact

wolviusJun 22, 20191 votes

The difference if if some champs are abusing an item they either get balanced around said item or item gets nerfed.

Shaco is literally balanced around item 3147 because he can double proc it with ult and has basic ability stealth. Have you seen the difference between a shaco with and without duskblade, its huge.

People say karma abuses item 3025 because she uses it far better than the tanks it is meant to be for who actually rarely buy it.

CaptainAntiHerozJun 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

The difference if if some champs are abusing an item they either get balanced around said item or item gets nerfed.

is literally balanced around because he can double proc it with ult and has basic ability stealth. Have you seen the difference between a shaco with and without duskblade, its huge.

item 3285 + Shaco =Abusing AP scaling?

wolviusJun 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

+ =Abusing AP scaling?

I have never seen a shaco with ludens, not even an ap shaco. Well not first item might have seen it fourth of after rabadons

How is ludens anyway better on shaco than 95% of mages, it doesnt give him waveclear, 900gold spent on near useless mana, a passive that is sub-par compared to laundries if your going AP. CDR is better gotten from sheen and zhonyas. His ap scales are also bad (besides box which is th reason you play ap). He may outperform Asol with it but that's about it.

Passive 40% ap Q 30% E 70% to 112% whick requires enemy at 0% health, which without box shenanigans ain't going to happen 1v1. R explode 100%.

Abusing items is like when viktor was top with frozen fist with his low cooldown Q and being unreachable as well as unkillable with it, while still out scaling toplaners. (Also converting the physical from sheen passive to magic damage) Or when stormrazor was better for assassins than adc.

CaptainAntiHerozJun 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I have never seen a shaco with ludens, not even an ap shaco. Well not first item might have seen it fourth of after rabadons

How is ludens anyway better on shaco than 95% of mages, it doesnt give him waveclear, 900gold spent on near useless mana, a passive that is sub-par compared to laundries if your going AP. CDR is better gotten from sheen and zhonyas. His ap scales are also bad (besides box which is th reason you play ap). The Passive 40% ap Q 30% E 70% to 112% whick requires enemy at 0% health, which without box shenanigans ain't going to happen 1v1. R explode 100%.

Abusing items is like when viktor was top with frozen fist with his low cooldown Q and being unreachable as well as unkillable with it, while still out scaling toplaners.

im just saying ap shaco isnt defined by duskblade so is ap on shaco an abusive build choice? Building optimally for what role your in shouldnt be labeled as ABUSING unlike playing vs TahmKench which by what everyone is saying like karma is abusing ibg yattayatta then tahm is abusing ludacris damage............ like i just dont get what people mean by Abusing

SaezioJun 22, 20191 votes

Yeah but ap shaco is trash.

CaptainAntiHerozJun 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yeah but ap shaco is trash.

100% scaling is trash yeah alright someones never seen it before obviously

SaezioJun 22, 20191 votes

100% scaling with opposite resistance check. W countered by a 0 gold item. R explosion is not even threatening anymore.

Trash jungle clear too and no ability to 1v1 anyone in the jungle.

Someone's only seen ap shaco in low elo or a very long time ago.

wolviusJun 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

im just saying ap shaco isnt defined by duskblade so is ap on shaco an abusive build choice? Building optimally for what role your in shouldnt be labeled as ABUSING unlike playing vs which by what everyone is saying like karma is abusing ibg yattayatta then tahm is abusing ludacris damage............ like i just dont get what people mean by Abusing

Ahh that's what you meant by ludens shaco ok.

Duskblade hinders every AD shaco build because he needs the duskblade passive and lethality for damage, he even needs it to increase his E damage because its dealt as physical damage. Compare shacos kit damage to any other assassin and you will see the difference, his numbers are low, his optimal burst pattern (the assassin 100 to zero) relies on him q to target and with his clone get 2 duskblade procs and then AA adc to death. AP shaco is an inferior play style if the enemy plays smart and doesnt jump into a triangle of death or aa the box to get 5 gold, it doesnt let shaco do what AD style does onto of what AP does unlike some abuse cases. Ap only works if you play smart you cant dive into a team and nearly murder the whole team like a riven, have you watched pinkward videos he loses hard if hot for the fact that the enemies brain turns off when hes low health.

It is often difficult to define what abuse is but some instances are easier than others. I suppose the best definition I can think of would be utilising a design flaw (item or otherwise) with near no way to counteract it.

I'll just speak of tank karma, a champ that is meant to be a mage style champ either support or otherwise building near full tank and working better than a tank at their role, due to both using items like IBG better than tanks and a 20% missing health (potentially a second 2 secs later) heal that wouldn't be allowed on a tank champ while retaining the ability to provide substantial support capabilities with shield/speed (possibly aoe) without much sacrifice for not going ap.

Also those ap ratios are still dealt as AD so they suck, 100% ap ratio on an ult that has sacrificed the auto attack damage from clone is weak, its basically only the explode damage unless you trick then into a box stun chain.

CaptainAntiHerozJun 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Ahh that's what you meant by ludens shaco ok.

Duskblade hinders every AD shaco build because he needs the duskblade passive and lethality for damage, he even needs it to increase his E damage because its dealt as physical damage. Compare shacos kit damage to any other assassin and you will see the difference, his numbers are low, his optimal burst pattern (the assassin 100 to zero) relies on him q to target and with his clone get 2 duskblade procs and then AA adc to death. AP shaco is an inferior play style if the enemy plays smart and doesnt jump into a triangle of death or aa the box to get 5 gold, it doesnt let shaco do what AD style does onto of what AP does unlike some abuse cases.

It is often difficult to define what abuse is but some instances are easier than others. I suppose the best definition I can think of would be utilising a design flaw (item or otherwise) with near no way to counteract it.

I'll just speak of tank karma, a champ that is meant to be a mage style champ either support or otherwise building near full tank and working better than a tank at their role, due to both using items like IBG better than tanks and a 20% missing health (potentially a second 2 secs later) heal that wouldn't be allowed on a tank champ while retaining the ability to provide substantial support capabilities with shield/speed (possibly aoe) without much sacrifice for not going ap.

ya see i peaked silver so they dont do the smart things against ap shaco, also i like aram, where its always ap shaco so oof.

but really i just want to know what Abusing a X (rune/item/etc) means, like people throw it around so casually now

wolviusJun 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

ya see i peaked silver so they dont do the smart things against ap shaco, also i like aram, where its always ap shaco so oof.

but really i just want to know what Abusing a X (rune/item/etc) means, like people throw it around so casually now

Eh there's people that throw terms around without knowing what they mean, like how many times have people said a person was "inting" when they get outplayed or just get wrecked.

People think feeding=inting half the time, SRO can dive a near full health nasus at level 3 and kill them yet I bet the nasus team flamed him like mad every time he got dived.

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