I don't feel like Singed's damage happens fast enough for modern day combat scenarios.

Strawberrycocoa··1 votes·370 views

I love Singed, and play him whenever I'm in the mood for it. Some days, if I can get matched against people I can run around enough, I can even do okay with him, get a few kills and all that. If and ONLY if I get matched against someone who is either not bursty enough to push back or not mobile enough to easily escape.

But the thing is, that's really rare, to be in a fight against another champion and they AREN'T dealing more damage in a trade than i can deal out by getting them to huff some toxin, or leaping and dashing around the battlefield so much that you can't reliably keep them in the toxin.

I dunno, I'm not a good enough player to put it in words that will convey everything properly, but Singed just... he kind of relies way too much on long slow protracted duels to deal any sufficient amount of damage. In a quick trade off, his toxin just doesn't hurt the enemy big or fast enough to matter much. By the time SInged can build enough items to make his damage at all meaningful, the game is practically over. Same applies to teamfights, Singed can only really deal relevant damage in a teamfight that's at a stall, where he can run around the battlefield keeping toxin clouds in play. A fast-moving stun-slam-dash-and-nuke and done teamfight, which is MUCH more common to see in modern day League, gives Singed little opportunity to meaningfully contribute.

Very few champions, I'd even say almost nobody, in the game right now is slow enough or non-mobile enough to stick around Singed's toxin clouds long enough to matter. He can pull a Teemo and get them softened up with some Rylandries comboing, but to actually successfully kill someone on his own? When there's a glut of mobility and all the priority targets have escape and counter-initiation skills that move faster than Singed's good ol' traditional foot speed? Eh. It's just not happening. And that makes me sad.

14 Comments

SEKAI2 votes

I mean, his damage niche has always been DoT, and it's not like he doesn't have 'tons of damage' capabilities. I don't think it's more to do with him being too "slow" but rather the meta is too "fast" in this regard imo.

Strawberrycocoa1 votes

Yeah that's definitely part of it, a proliferation of champions using a boom-boom-pow combat style, comapared to the slow burn of champs like SInged or some of the other tanks.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

Singed is one of the highest winrate champs in the game right now.

Now let's hear your justification for why that fact doesn't matter.

Strawberrycocoa1 votes

I was just sharing a thought man, you dont gotta be aggressive about it.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

I'm tired of people complaining that their already strong champ isn't completely busted.

Strawberrycocoa1 votes

I can see that.

Martyrofsand1 votes

Eh I'll take a stab at it...and by stab at it I mean actually show why your use of that statistic is irrelevant. Mostly it happens when you include a secondary statistic. Singed does have a 53.3% winrate but if you looked a little deeper you would see he also has a 1.2% playrate. What does this mean?

It means he has a very small but incredibly dedicated fanbase who plays the holy hell out of him and have masteries all of the smallest details, like say knowing that proxing 2 waves+small gromp minion can give you enough gold to recall and buy boots while still making it in lane in time before the next wave hits giving you an item advantage up on the enemy team without spending anything.

Or they might understand that against a strong counter match-up like Fiora you could use a very weird build involving Ludens/Swifties/deadmans/zz'rot to pretty much ensure you never have to fight her and can deny her the minions needed to split push with effectively negating her advantage.

Little things known by a dedicated fan base results in insane win rates that champs like say...Lee who is far more popular simply won't have by virtue of not everyone playing him is as well versed.

Ahris1 votes

{quoted}

Eh I'll take a stab at it...and by stab at it I mean actually show why your use of that statistic is irrelevant. Mostly it happens when you include a secondary statistic. Singed does have a 53.3% winrate but if you looked a little deeper you would see he also has a 1.2% playrate. What does this mean?

It means he has a very small but incredibly dedicated fanbase who plays the holy hell out of him and have masteries all of the smallest details, like say knowing that proxing 2 waves+small gromp minion can give you enough gold to recall and buy boots while still making it in lane in time before the next wave hits giving you an item advantage up on the enemy team without spending anything.

Or they might understand that against a strong counter match-up like Fiora you could use a very weird build involving Ludens/Swifties/deadmans/zz'rot to pretty much ensure you never have to fight her and can deny her the minions needed to split push with effectively negating her advantage.

Little things known by a dedicated fan base results in insane win rates that champs like say...Lee who is far more popular simply won't have by virtue of not everyone playing him is as well versed.

Not quite: https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/leaderboard/Singed/

Singed mains have 58%+ winrate and average winrate by any player is 54.41% winrate. To think that mains make up that number is really dumb logic.

Martyrofsand1 votes

Um actually that just goes further to prove exactly what I said. He has a small dedicated fanbase who play the hell out of him and win a significant number of their matches because of it, IE inflating his winrate. Literally almost every person you posted there is a Singed main and has the majority of their time spent on the champ.

You literally posted additional proof of what I said so thanks I guess.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

Ah yes, the classic "high winrate and low pickrate doesn't mean anything."

It's a great claim because it's unfalsifiable by design and thus any champ with a low pickrate can't possibly be OP no matter what their winrate is. Sona has a 4% pickrate and 58% winrate? Low pickrate hurr hurr hurr.

The inverse argument is fun too: "high pickrate means champ is OP no matter what their winrate is because everyone knows a high pickrate lowers a champs winrate." By how much, you might ask? Who fucking knows; all we know is that it does and that's enough. Lucian has a 20% pickrate and 44% winrate? Still clearly OP.

Martyrofsand1 votes

Actually more often than not high play rate champions tend to be the champs who are used at the pro level and most times they are used on the pro level because, you guested it, they are some of the strongest champs in the game right now. Lucien is actually a perfect example of this as he is a highly contested mid laner on the pro scene and that is translating directly into solo queue. Lee Sin is another example as he is always seen on the pro scene jungle making crazy plays and everyone wants to pick him up and be him.

So yeah much like the other guy all you did was make additional arguments in support of what I was saying so thanks I guess.

Low pick rates do in fact tend to mean there are only small pockets of people who master those champs because they love them and as a result they absolutely crush with them more often then not because they simply know things about the champs other don't, hell just look at Boxbox on his riven or Tobias on his GP, or Tricktg on his Udyr. They all do crazy crap with those champs you rarely if ever see anyone else do and they do it because they are so specialized in those champs. It's what mastery of a champ gets you even if the champ is not a god tier champ.

Mysticman891 votes

Pretty sure singeds niche is being super annoying and splitpushing relentlessly (and/or proxying), not necessarily offering kill pressure.

Singed would need some pretty harsh nerfs to how slippery he is if he was made into a champion with more significant kill pressure, and he'd rapidly stop feeling like singed at that point.

ChiTenshi1 votes

Why is my Tank not dealing Carry level damage?!?

OrganicT1 votes

The only issue with Singed is this :item 3194 . This item counter way to hard Singed and make him feel lame in damage next to everyone else. Remove this item and Singed will go back to the chart.

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